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Our Daily Thread 11-12-12

Good morning.

I hope everyone had a Happy Veterans Day, especially the vets.

Here’s a good story.

Mojave Desert Cross Returned and Rededicated to WWI Veterans

Quote of the Day

“We  must never forget why we have, and why we need our military. Our armed forces exist solely to ensure our nation is safe, so that each and every one of us can sleep soundly at night, knowing we have ‘guardians at the gate.'”

Allen  West

36 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 11-12-12”

  3. Good morning all. What is the fascination that teens have with staying up until 2 am? Wasn’t there a comedian once that did a skit on real maturity is when you call it a night at 10pm because you have to work the next day? Then of course there is the grinding, grating, screeching of the garbage truck at 4:30 and then Hub’s alarm clock at 4:45. If you are playing Words With Friends with me I am caught up!
    Now off to get dressed and be mature and go to work!

    Today I am going to list Mr & Mrs B’s house. He has finally talked her into going into assisted living and has actually made a “down payment” on moving in. This is the best option for them. He is in his mid to late 80’s and even though she is younger, she is not in good health. Doing everything has worn him out. Oh but she was/is a fiesty thing and when her knees were still her own they danced beautifully. Even now that is how I remember them–him swirling her around a dance floor in some hotel ballroom in Washington DC.

    I made them some lentil soup yesterday–using her recipe.

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  4. Kim, good move for them. We’re thinking about it. But we have this big house.
    I wish we had a condo.
    But Elvera’s family, about 30-35 are going to show up the Saturday after Thanksgiving. It started out as a Christmas party in the mid fifties. But the day after Thanksgiving for decades now.
    Nobody else can do it.
    That’s not the reason for staying, but something.

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  5. Chas, that sounds like such a wonderful tradition. 🙂

    But wow, is Thanksgiving really only a little over a week away??

    Kim, very nice gesture with the soup. 😉

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  10. Excellent piece on the dangers to the church posed by America’s growing “statism”:

    http://www.ligonier.org/blog/statism-biggest-concern-future-church-america/

    “… Where we have seen the largest measure of the loss of liberty is with respect to the function of the church. Though the church is still somewhat tolerated in America (in a way it was not tolerated in Mao’s Red China and under Stalin), it is tolerated only when it remains outside of the public square.

    “In other words, the church has been relegated to a status not unlike that given to the native Americans, where the tribes were allowed to continue to exist as long as they functioned safely on a reservation, outside of any significant influence on the government.

    “So although the church has not been banished completely by the statism that has emerged in America, it has been effectively banished from the public square.”

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  11. Good mid-morning, everyone!

    On Friday I went with a bus load of WMU women to our lovely campus of the Georgia Baptist Children’s Home where we had a program in the chapel. Some of the children read their heartbreaking stories to us and then they performed a bit of musical drama. Then we went over to another building where the young men escorted the ladies to tables and we were served by the young ladies a Thanksgiving type meal.It was a really wonderful day for the trip with the leaves at peak color with the blue sky background.

    On Saturday I went to a Juice Plus event where an oncologist spoke. This, too, was with a van full of ladies. I learned some good information about how to hopefully remain healthy. We then went to lunch at a pretty well known establishment in Atlanta, the OK Cafe. I had a vegetable plate with collards, triple cheese mac, waldorf salad, and brocolli. The corn muffin had corn kernels in it. Yum!

    With church twice on Sunday added to the other social events, I was finding myself worn out since I am an introvert. I always find myself in listening mode when I am in groups, and all that listening takes so much concentration that I really do get to feeling a bit overwhelmed even though I love it. I imagine some others here can relate.

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  12. I got my Veteran’s Day greeting from my fellow Veteran (aka the Marine) yesterday morning before church. We had a church thanksgiving pot luck yesterday. I made cornbread dressing. It was a big hit and several folks at church wanted the recipe. They were all Yankee’s of course.

    😆

    We had some frost on the pumpkin this morning. Saturday I went to the public rifle range. You have to have a hunting license to shoot there. I shot a hundred rounds of 9 mm with my carbine. Lots of fun. I took my 308 mossberg too. The other shooters really liked that weapon because the trigger is so light.

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  13. Our church is doing care packages to the troops. Any of you veterans or family of veterans have suggestions on what they really need. It has to fit in a box the size of tow hoes boxes.

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  14. We sent our sons some yoyo’s. They went over well. He left them in the central location so others could use them and learned lots of new yo yo tricks. Other son requested small candies and Idaho local trinkets to pass out to the children. Those went over very well, also. Nothing chocolate of course as it melts into an unrecognizable blob. But a recent article I read indicated they really like video games as well, to get their minds off of things.

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  15. Yoyo’s sound like a great idea.

    And thanks for reminding me I still have a bag to fill for the homeless mission which our church collects for each year at Thanksgiving. They’re due for turn-in by next Sunday.

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  16. Happy Belated Veteran’s Day! I posted a prayer on the prayer wall at http://www.presidentialprayerteam.org yesterday to honor the veterans. I also have some cards to get over to the VA Hospital. We always have a nice time of honoring the veterans in our service. They have not only served our country, but they have served God by being willing to sacrifice their lives for others to live and have a better life. That is a portion of our service, but the main part is in worshipping God and receiving the message based on a section of Scripture.

    We are doing Operation Christmas Child boxes, and I was able to get mine turned in yesterday. We are also doing backpacks containing similar items to what the shoebox gifts contain for children in Appalachia. And we are doing a coat drive for people in that area.

    Mumsee, I just came across a little booklet I have about yo-yo tricks. I believe it is from Duncan. You might check to see if you can get one of those to send if you have not already.

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  17. My thoughtful husband just took me to the craft store since I had a 60% coupon expiring today (though of course nearly everything in the store is overpriced and then on sale at 30 or 40% off so that it’s hard to use the coupon). But the weather is really “sloppy”–a mix of rain and snow–and it isn’t the sort of weather I like driving in, so I’d decided that even though I held onto the coupon for several weeks until it was usable, I wasn’t going to get to use it. But then hubby said, “I’ll take you if you want to go” just because he saw the coupon.

    And then on the way home, right by the side of the road against the lovely grasses was a very handsome buck, so still my husband thought it was a statue, but I could see every detail on him and knew it couldn’t be. But he was the best buck sighting either of us has ever had–lovely, good rack, sculpted, statue still with his back legs at different angles. Even though he was right there, he was the same color as the grasses and we didn’t see him till we were almost beside him.

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  19. I read the article about the threat to Christianity posed by “statism.” The threat to Christianity is that human beings are gradually waking up to the fact that we are an accident of the universe and that we are on our own. We are just animals with big brains. Each of us dies individually and ceases to exist. Eventually, our species will cease to exist. Eventually our sun will go nova (or some similar cosmic disaster) and our planet will cease to exist.

    In the meantime, I will go to the gym to keep my tired old body alive for another day. Then I will take down the bean vines and shovel the chicken manure into the compost for next year’s fertilizer for the berries. Wednesday, I will split wood with the “sort of” evangelicals who tolerate homosexuals and Thursday, I will meet with my atheist group and we will chat about how God is imaginary. Some day I will cease to exist. I don’t look forward to it, but it doesn’t much matter, does it?

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  21. Random,

    Doesn’t it ever strike you as odd that you spend so much time here and elsewhere discussing God? If He’s imaginary, why do you bother? I think thou dost protest a bit too much. If you truly don’t believe in God, then why are you letting Him live rent free in your head? He’s in there, whether you like it or not, and He seems to be quite involved with your thoughts and life. Don’t you ever wonder why? Maybe you should start listening to Him, instead of denying Him, because He obviously has your attention. You might not like it, but it’s pretty obvious.

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  24. Random,

    You say you made no assumptions about Mumsee and her kids but when you said you were speechless, it showed that you clearly did. I hope you read Mumsee’s response. When you take in children with physical and emotional issues from abusive and neglectful environments the way Mumsee and her husband do, even more than other children, they need firm boundaries. And no, this doesn’t mean showing up in the school classroom with a whipping belt.

    Also, I responded in two posts on two consecutive days about our book exchange agreement and I haven’t heard back from you.

    And last, I have a question in regard to something you said yesterday–something you’ve said multiple times in the past. You keep saying that more and more people are realizing that there’s no God or something like that. My question is, what is it that you believe that we know now, that we did not know in the past, that makes it more apparent that God does not exist? I hope you’ll me a clear and succinct (as opposed to rambling and incoherent) answer to that question.

    Thanks.

    Glad to have you back.

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  25. Ree,

    The library is closed today. (Veteran’s Day.) As soon as the books arrive and I pick them up, I will start reading and commenting on them.

    My question is, what is it that you believe that we know now, that we did not know in the past, that makes it more apparent that God does not exist?

    I am 68 years old. My memory is that I concluded 58 years ago that there is no God. Some of the thoughts along the way: there is no empirical evidence for existence of God. There are many versions of God (not just Christian). Either all are true, one is true, or none is true. (Take your pick. Mine is none are true.) If God exists, why so much suffering in the world? Does that make God evil? Religious belief dates from before humans discovered empiricism and served some useful purposes; thus our physical and cultural evolution selected for people predisposed to religious belief. I am probably the “victim” of a recessve gene; you are probably the beneficiary of a dominant gene.

    Both Calvinists (I think) and my favorite atheist author agree (again, I think) that we have no free will. Thus you have no choice but to believe (and perhaps be saved, if you are truly among the elect) and I have no choice but to disbelieve and then spend eternity in Hell, which may “merely” be the absence of (an imaginary) God.

    However, I told my wife that I would go out and pull down the beans (and bean poles) and shovel out the chicken manure and put all the leavings in the compost. If I don’t get my old carcass out and do these tasks, my wife will make my current life a living hell. So I am out of here, for now.

    If I don’t get eaten by a coyote, I will be back. Remember, if everyone ignores me, I will probably go away and then you can all safely talk to each other about God without my scoffing. How happy you will be!

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  26. Random – Adding to Ree’s comments about Mumsee & her children, here is something Mumsee posted just last week…

    “Our eleven year old, who arrived unable to talk and not expected to get beyond single digit addition and the most simple of reading, is in the other room diagramming sentences, doing three digit multiplication and two digit division and fractions. God is amazing. She tells me all about it and loves to talk about God and what He has done and is doing.”

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  28. Karen,

    There’s a reason for that. The Obama political machine is continuing to campaign, but for their agenda, not re-election. Tomorrow’s news/politics will have some links that show what I mean. The demonization of those who disagree will continue.

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  30. Around twenty plus are trying to do that.

    Speaking of electoral college. As Idaho voted almost seventy percent for Romney, therefore both of our votes went to him, how would it have made any difference if I voted Constitutional Party? And that is true of many of the other states as well. Once all of the electoral votes are slated for a candidate, doesn’t seem it would matter how the others voted.

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  32. Nancyjill, I believe it’s RickyWeaver who is behind all that. 😉

    Yes, there do seem to be some bad winners out there. 😦 In politics, we should all learn to lose with grace and win with humility.

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  33. Thanks, Karen, for posting that for Random.

    Random,

    Thanks for your answer. One thing you and I have in common is that, when I was 14 years old, I reasoned myself out of believing in God pretty much the same way you did. The difference between us is that, ten years later, God graciously opened my heart and my mind to the foolishness of my reasoning. And I’ve said this to you before, but you haven’t answered it to my recollection. If there’s a “God-belief” gene, what do you do with all the fluidity of belief. Former atheists/agnostics are converted to Christ in adulthood. Formerly professing Christians renounce their faith, also in adulthood. Your gene theory just doesn’t work because believer and unbeliever are not static categories.

    You mentioned suffering in the world, but that’s not new, so that can’t be the thing we discovered that made belief in God no longer viable.

    You mentioned the “discovery of empirisicm,” but empiricism isn’t a discovery. It’s a philosophical position, and a self-refuting one at that. (If one is to hold to the proposition that the only valid means of discovering truth is empirically, which is what empiricism states, then the proposition itself, which is not empirically proven, is false.)

    Perhaps you really meant that we “discovered” the scientific method of verifying material phenomena, perhaps referring to the influence of Francis Bacon. That’s not empiricism. In fact, you may remember from Barry that Francis Bacon said, “the Empirical school of philosophy gives birth to dogmas more deformed and monstrous than the Sophistical or rational school.” But to say that the discovery (or the popularization) of the scientific method leads us to reject God is a category mistake. The scientific method refers to knowledge about matter, not metaphysical knowledge. So the popularization of the scientific method is not a relevant answer to my question because it has absolutely nothing to say about the metaphysical nature of reality.

    The issue of free will is worth discussing, but it’s not relevant to the question I asked you.

    So far, you haven’t shown anything that we know now that we didn’t know before that makes it apparent that God does not exist.

    I trust that you won’t be eaten by a coyote and that you’ll be back to respond. And before you respond to me, it would be a wonderful gesture if you would willingly eat your words (or, I suppose, your lack of words when you were rendered speechless) in regard to Mumsee and her children.

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  34. Ree said:

    God graciously opened my heart and my mind to the foolishness of my reasoning.

    Translating as best I can, this means, “I stopped believing in God and then I started to believe in God again.”

    As you yourself say, Former atheists/agnostics are converted to Christ in adulthood. Formerly professing Christians renounce their faith, also in adulthood.

    Belief is indeed a fluid category.

    I said our physical and cultural evolution selected for people predisposed to religious belief. I am probably the “victim” of a recessive gene; you are probably the beneficiary of a dominant gene.

    I said predisposed. Possible synonyms for this word would be “inclined to” or “more likely to.” It would be very simple-minded (and you are obviously quite intelligent) to confuse “inclined to” with “forced to” or “incapable of doing anything else.”

    Although humans have discovered quite a bit about human psychology and sociology, we are still struggling with the puzzle often described by the phrase “nature vs. nurture.” That is, we don’t really know how much of human behavior and belief is the result of our genetics and how much is the result of our conditioning and socialization. I suspect that some humans are more inclined toward religious belief because of their genetics. I suspect that some humans are less inclined toward religious belief because of their genetics.

    While not a true scientific “double-blind” study, I will mention a couple of recent experiences, observations. 1. Jehovah’s Witnesses are a peculiar religious group, who may or may not be “real Christians.” (You are more expert than I am as to what defines or constitutes a “real Christian.” It is all nonsense to me.

    2. In my atheist group, one of the most enthusiastic and fervent members is a woman who was raised as a devout Jehovah’s Witness, went door-to-door as a child trying to convert people, etc. As a young adult she decided the belief system is nonsense, married a non-believer, and broke with her religious upbringing. The rest of her family shunned her. She and her husband moved from Arizona to Washington state, perhaps to get away from this environment. She also tells me that at least one of her children shows signs of being a religious believer. “I don’t argue with him about it,” she tells me. A hypothesis might be that most of her family are genetically inclined to religious belief, but it’s impossible to tell.

    3. Recently while doing my volunteer stint with the “sort of evangelical” church group, I met a new member, a man in his 30s, I think, who told me that he had been raised in a Jehovah’s Witness family, had been beaten by his father, had engaged in a life of drug addiction and crime, and now had become a religious believer and Christian again. Again, this doesn’t “prove” anything, but a hypothesis is that this man has a greater religious genetic PREDILICTION toward religion, but has decided on a more “sensible” (by my tastes) type of religious belief. It’s very complicated, confusing.

    Bottom line for me: there is no evidence for the existence of God. We are animals with big brains who know we will die, and don’t much care for the prospect.

    Fortunately, I was not eaten by a coyote, and didn’t see any. Mostly, they avoid humans, and prefer to eat chickens, pets such as cats and dogs, and whatever small creatures they can scarf up. While we were traveling we saw a documentary about raccoons. Coons have split into two main varieties, county coons and city coons. The city coons are getting smarter and smarter. We may be helping raccoons to evolve into super-smart coons. We may be in trouble. If you come home and discover that a raccoon has figured out how to unlock your door and is sleeping in your bed, worry a bit. Or learn to speak raccoon. Or pray.

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  36. it would be a wonderful gesture if you would willingly eat your words (or, I suppose, your lack of words when you were rendered speechless) in regard to Mumsee and her children.

    I fail to see why I should eat my words. Eating my “lack of words,” is really struggling and scrambling for a credible way to chastize or correct me. Are you sure you are not imagining something? Oh, that’s right, you probably imagine imaginary things all the time, so your imagination muscles are stronger than mine.

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