UPDATE
Keep in mind he was just re-elected.
From CBS
“A former U.S. attorney representing embattled Congressman Jesse Jackson Jr. is negotiating a plea deal with the federal government, CBS 2 has learned.”
“The plea deal would end Jackson’s 17-year career as a congressman representing Chicago’s South Side and suburbs.”
“The tentative deal includes:
–Jackson resigning for health reasons.
–His pleading guilty to charges involving misuse of campaign funds.
–The congressman’s repayment of any contributions that were converted to personal use, such as home furnishings, improper travel or gifts.
The Petraeus story has grown. And of course, it’s gotten worse.
From CBS
“CBS News has learned that for the last few months the FBI has been investigating the communications of Petraeus. Law enforcement sources tell CBS News’ Bob Orr that there was concern about emails the CIA director was sending and receiving involving a female journalist. Additional sources tell CBS News the communications involve his biographer, Paula Broadwell.
A Justice Department official tells CBS News that Petraeus’ name surfaced while the FBI was undertaking a separate investigation into whether Petraeus’ computer might have been compromised.”
“A White House official told CBS News’ Nancy Cordes that the White House did not know before the election that Petraeus would resign and that the news comes as a surprise to everyone.”
So the FBI and Justice Dept were investigating him, and I’m to believe the White House was unaware? Oh c’mon. Really?
Such a sad end for such a great soldier’s career. And others seem to agree the timing is just too perfect.
From RealClearPolitics
“LT. COL. RALPH PETERS: The timing is just too perfect for the Obama administration. Just as the administration claimed it was purely coincidence that our Benghazi consulate was attacked on the anniversary of September 11th. Now it’s purely coincidence that this affair — extra-marital affair — surfaces right after the election, not before, but right after, but before the intelligence chiefs go to Capitol Hill to get grilled. As an old intelligence analyst, Neil, the way I read this — I could be totally wrong, this is my interpretation — is that the administration was unhappy with Petraeus not playing ball 100% on their party-line story. I think it’s getting cold feet about testifying under oath on their party-line story. And I suspect that these tough Chicago guys knew about this affair for a while, held it in their back pocket until they needed to play the card.”
The WSJournal has more.
“Multiple officials familiar with the investigation identified the woman as the author of a biography on Mr. Petraeus.
It was the second national-security revelation to come to light in the two days after President Barack Obama won re-election. On Wednesday, the Pentagon acknowledged that Iranian fighter planes had fired on an unmanned reconnaissance drone five days before the election. Some Republicans on Capitol Hill were irked that the administration waited so long to make the incident public, while administration officials said they didn’t talk about the attack because the drone program was secret.”
They have to subpoena him. He’s got things to answer for, as does the CIA, and the Obama Admin.
Regardless of political party, I think everyone can agree this next one is wrong.
From the AsburyParkPress
“We stood and talked in the cool morning air a short distance up the road after security at the front gate threatened to have our cars removed outside the entrance to what Sotelo’s identification tag calls “Camp Freedom,” even though it more closely resembles a prison camp.”
““Sitting there last night you could see your breath,” said Sotelo. “At (Pine Belt) the Red Cross made an announcement that they were sending us to permanent structures up here that had just been redone, that had washing machines and hot showers and steady electric, and they sent us to tent city. We got (expletive).”
“As Sotelo tells it, when it became clear that the residents were less than enamored with their new accommodations Wednesday night and were letting the outside world know about it, officials tried to stop them from taking pictures, turned off the WiFi and said they couldn’t charge their smart phones because there wasn’t enough power.”
Is this really the best FEMA and the Red Cross can do?
In employment news, the fallout from the election continues.
From FreedomWorks, here’s those layoffs you voted for Obama backers.
“Last night’s victory for the President marks the first time since its inception that Obamacare is no longer a what-if; it is the future of health care in America.
It also means a near immediate impact on the economy. With 20 or so new or higher taxes set to be implemented, ranging from a $123 billion surtax on investment income, through the $20 billion medical device tax, all the way down to the $600 million executive compensation limit, Obamacare will be a nearly unbearable tax burden on the economy.
Who will pay? The middle-class workforce, of course.”
And TheBlaze has more.
“Do elections have consequences? If you have been paying attention to the financial markets, you might think so. Wall Street has had two horrible days since President Obama won a second term.
However, stock prices are not the only thing taking a hit. It appears that the job market is also suffering. In the last 48 hours, the following major corporations have announced layoffs in America (links take you to news stories about the layoffs – with details from the companies):”
Don’t blame me, I voted for Romney.
Here’s some pretty cool news. We finally have a use for tattoos that I like.
From MyFoxTampaBay
“From the simple to the elaborate, tattoos are as unique as those who proudly wear them. But some are getting tattoos they hope no one can see: medical tattoos that are used to hide scars from surgery.”
“”It’s basically tattooing, but I’m using permanent cosmetic pigment and not tattoo ink. I mix and blend camouflaged colors to match the skin around the area that is not hypopigmented, under pigmented or lost its color,” she says.
There are many uses for medical tattoos: covering scars from surgery, blend areas discolored by vitiligo, and nd replace brows and lashes lost to alopecia. They also restore parts of the body taken by cancer.”
Is that cool or what?
And this last one………..
Let me be the first to say “NO THANK YOU! Really, I’ll pass, thanks.”
From AP/MyWayNews
“George P. Bush, a nephew of former President George W. Bush and son of one-time Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, has made a campaign filing in Texas that is required of candidates planning to run for state office, an official said Thursday night.
The younger Bush, a Fort Worth resident, filed a campaign treasurer appointment Wednesday, a requirement for someone to become a candidate under campaign finance law, Tim Sorrells, general counsel for the Texas Ethics Commission, told The Associated Press.”
So, what, Bush is the new Kennedy?
Still, No Thank You!
Unless……………….
From TheHill
“Vice President Biden said Friday that his focus was on helping President Obama to improve the economy, not the potential 2016 run he hinted at on the campaign trail earlier this month.
“There’s plenty of time to think about 2016,” Biden told the Wilmington News-Journal. “We’ve got to get this economy working. If three years from now the economy is not working, it’s not going to be worth doing much. This is all about making Barack an incredibly successful second-term president. That’s my focus.”
Biden had alluded to a possible presidential bid as recently as Election Day, when he was asked after voting if that would be his last time voting for himself.
Wandering Views 
I found this blog postby Walter Chantry rather interesting. His thesis: The reelection of President Obama demonstrates the wickedness of America. He goes on to compare this election with the degradation of man in Romans 1. It’s a good read.
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Oops! The blog is Tom Chantry’s, not Walter’s. Sorry for the confusion.
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A good article Peter. Everyone should read it.
I have considered the same thing, though not so thoroughly nor eloquently.
They were discussing on TV what the Republicans need to do.
I considered that:
We can never appeal to a consticuency who’se spokeswoman is Sandre Fluke.
We can never promise an Obamaphone to everyone.
We can never promise to fund Planned Parenthood.
Rush says that over three million conservatives didn’t vote for various reasons.
I hope they’re satisfied.
Yet, Chantry may be correct.
The late Jim McKeever once said, “Bill Clinton is God’s judgement on America”.
I doubted it at the time. But it may be correct this time.
No good can come of this.
Like him, I weep for America and fear for my grandkids. Most of you may see the result of this degeneration.
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About the Sandy victims. Don’t these people have insurance? An insurance company has find you a nice place to live while they rebuild your house.
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Biden says: “We’ve got to get this economy working. Translation: we have to get the economy working for the pinheads in DC not the American worker bee.
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I have always been intrigued by an apparent contradiction in scripture. It appears that every ruler is there because God placed him there. That is, Nebuchadnezzar, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hugo Chavez were there because God placed them there.
“Praise be to the name of God forever and ever; wisdom and power are His. He changes times and seasons; He sets up kings and deposes them. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.” Daniel 2: 21, 22
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.” Romans 13:1
Yet, Satan, when tempting Jesus, offered him all the power and glory of the kingdoms of the world. “for that is delivered unto me”.
Luke 4:
5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time.
6 And the devil said unto him, “All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.”
7”If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be yours.”
And, in various places, Satan is called the “Prince of this world”. John 12:31, 14:3, 16:13. Paul, I Cor. 2:8 refers to “rulers of this age”. And in Ephesians, 6;12, Paul mentions “the powers of this dark world”.
A couple of links today refer to the total ignorance/stupidity of a nation that voted against it’s self interest. It amazed me from the beginning.
Four years ago, I facetiously ran for president. That was because of a discussion I had with a guy who asked, “Who do you like for president?” I answered, “No one. But I’m voting for McCain.” He asked, “Why?” I said, “Obama isn’t qualified. I am more qualified to be president than Obama.” I pointed out education, military service, work in the private and government sectors, etc. He said, “Then why don’t you run for President?” I said, “Because I don’t have the media in my pocket and I don’t look good on television.” Rush correctly says, “Least qualified man in any room he enters.”
Consider this: A guy appears from nowhere. He hasn’t done anything in his life to qualify him for anything. He gets elected to the Ill. State legislature through either weird circumstances of fraud. Then to the US Senate. He has no traceable record to amount to anything in either place.
He suddenly appears on the political scene and is elected president. Everything he does is antithetical to the benefit of America (And Israel BTW).
America is given a second chance. But some think his opponent is not Christian enough, nor conservative enough, and they vote for no one or someone else.
He is reelected. An illustration in one of the links says, “I have George Washington’s original ax. Its handle has been replaced three times, and its head
twice.” But it’s George Washington’s ax.
Paul Harvey once said, “Free people always get the government they deserve”.
Is America still America? Is God bringing judgment on America?
We shall see.
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Good article (hard truths) Peter, thanks for the link. 😦 And the author put words to what I was feeling as well — while I thought I didn’t “expect” that Romney would win, at some level I, too, didn’t think the nation would ever re-elect the current president.
Surely they/we couldn’t be that obtuse? Could we?
I guess we could. 😦
I also woke up the next morning feeling like I’d been kicked in the head. It really was pretty jarring when you consider four more years of … well, what we’ve just been through. How’s anything going to be different let alone better?
Sigh.
So far (while I hope this changes) I’m also not at all encouraged by the tone I hear coming from the president.
But we should not give in to despair. (Though I say that while teetering on despair at times in the past few days.)
And God absolutely ordains all that comes to pass, including placing leaders in power at various times for our chastisement or for our benefit (and when we’re chastised it IS for our benefit). Scripture is full of those examples.
It’s difficult and probably impossible, really, to see what God is doing in the larger picture here. We (or more likely those who come after us) will know in retrospect. But for now it is enough to know that the God we know and trust in completely is at work. And that can never be bad.
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AJ
On the Gen Petreaus story — background investigations occur with some frequency and no the White House would not know about that because it’s routine. And because such investigations are pretty well stove-piped. That said, the timing does lend itself to all kinds of conjecture. But its just that conjecture.
Kbells
On Sandy and insurance — you have to buy flood insurance separately as its not usually covered in regular house insurance policies. If they didn’t experience flooding before chances are homeowners didn’t think they needed the coverage.
Chas
Obamaphones — The phones stem from a program signed off on by the Reagan Administration when the telcoms were deregulated. It is not a taxpayer program as such. The universal service fee you pay to your telcom provider was added when deregulation occurred so that there could be a way to provide emergency telephone service for the poorest folks after deregulation. You can read more about it here:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp
As you and your fellow conservatives determine what you must not do, I would encourage you to research what you oppose on your own and not rely on one source of news.
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The entire world is sinking into darkness.
Radical Islam is taking over the Middle East. And Israel is surrounded by enemies.
Europe is in economic, spiritual and moral decay, and the vacuum is being filled by Muslims. Russia, having been given a chance, is gradually coming under control of dictatorship again.
China is acquiring hegemony in the Western Pacific. And Taiwan, Japan and the Philippines can do nothing about it.
Venezuela is influencing most of the northern area of South America and there’s trouble in Argentina.
And the light on the hill is going dim.
Ronald Reagan once said, “If not us, WHO?”
Consider this:
Zechariah 12
New International Version (NIV)
1. The LORD, who stretches out the heavens, who lays the foundation of the earth, and who forms the human spirit within a person, declares: 2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the surrounding peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem. 3 On that day, when all the nations of the earth are gathered against her, I will make Jerusalem an immovable rock for all the nations. All who try to move it will injure themselves. 4 On that day I will strike every horse with panic and its rider with madness,” declares the LORD. “I will keep a watchful eye over Judah, but I will blind all the horses of the nations. 5 Then the clans of Judah will say in their hearts, ‘The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the LORD Almighty is their God.’
6 “On that day I will make the clans of Judah like a firepot in a woodpile, like a flaming torch among sheaves. They will consume all the surrounding peoples right and left, but Jerusalem will remain intact in her place.
7 “The LORD will save the dwellings of Judah first, so that the honor of the house of David and of Jerusalem’s inhabitants may not be greater than that of Judah. 8 On that day the LORD will shield those who live in Jerusalem, so that the feeblest among them will be like David, and the house of David will be like God, like the angel of the LORD going before them. 9 On that day I will set out to destroy all the nations that attack Jerusalem.
10 “And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit[a] of grace and supplication. They will look on[b] me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. 11 On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be as great as the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. 12 The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, 13 the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, 14 and all the rest of the clans.
I have often wondered how this prophesy could happen since the only superpower in the world had vowed to protect Israel. Israel is a small country, smaller than New Jersey with a population of about 13 million. It is unique in all the world. God has sworn to protect it.
Obama is an enemy of Israel. His denials of this are not true.
What should we do? We had our chance but failed.
Keep up the fight against evil at home. We may be losing, but we can’t stop. We’re not called to determine the outcome; we’re called to be faithful in our area of influence.
Watch the Middle East. We are at war, but won’t admit it.
Keep your account in Heaven balanced. It will likely get worse. But the game ends in victory (little football jargon here).
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Good grief. The President is not an enemy of Israel. U.S. policy on Israel is unchanged.
Look at the actual policies and look at the actions. You will see an Administration that works with Israel as an ally but does not take instruction from Israel as a subordinate.
The reason the GOP failed in part lies in the information bubble — Israel is but one example. Skewed polls is another. Obamaphones another. This country needs a healthy second party that deals in the reality around us not in conspiracy theories or conjecture or fear-based assumptions of the absolute worst.
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“This country needs a healthy second party that deals in the reality around us not in conspiracy theories or conjecture or fear-based assumptions of the absolute worst.” When this country get the first party like that? The Democrats entire campaign was based on fear-based assumptions of the absolute worst. (throw granny over the cliff) That and accusations of racism and promises that the government would solve everyone’s problems not matter how personal and none of the government’s business.
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If the Republican party did anything wrong is was being too honest with the American people and actually thinking they could treat them like adults.
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KBells,
I agree. We made the mistake of thinking you could reason with them.
🙂
and
😦
at the same time.
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http://reason.com/blog/2012/11/09/exit-polls-indicate-an-extraordinarily-d. I thought this was interesting. I have not read any analysis about the Asian vote. It was more Democratic than the Hispanic vote.
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Ricky
I read that too. Republicans should find that piece of information profoundly disturbing.
KBells
Both parties engage in exaggeration. When we can all admit that, we might be getting somewhere. When we can all admit that skewed polls that aren’t in fact skewed are part of the problem we might be getting somewhere.
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On the bright side, my county voted 84% Republican. I suggested Hispanics may have made up much of the 15% that voted Democratic, while my wife contended they were “stupid white women”. In any event, I believe there are only three or four white male Texan Democrats.
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“Both parties engage in exaggeration.” Your remark singled out the Republicans on everything but the polls. Specking of the polls I remember some howling from the other side in 2000 about how something had to be up because the results didn’t match the exit polls.
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CB, I’m on information overload — what specific polls are you referring to? I’m unclear whether you’re saying there were skewed polls (or whether people thought there were ‘skewed’ polls but they weren’t skewed).
I love that word, by the way. It’s even fun to type.
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Some pretty funny cracks about California in this post:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/11/george-will-says-to-cheer-up.php
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I think that BuddyGlass had an idea that the Republican Party needs to cool it on immigration. Most realize that immigration is a multifaceted problem but, because of being lied to by government in the past, many aren’t willing to discuss anything about immigration until the border is secure. We need to not let the Democrats define what we say so that we seem so hard. We need to say that we are for a comprehensive approach with border security the first thing that needs accomplished. In Arizona I’ve seen the fallout from the hard-nosed approach we have taken.
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Donna
I’m saying the unskewed polls webste was askew, heh. Ok, the right wing site started saying the polling could not be right. Fox picked that up. And then, if reports are correct the Romney campaign did too. Gov Romney did not prepare a concession speech and he ordered 25k of celebration fireworks, meanwhile Karl Rove has a meltdown on Fox. All od this was due to reliance on internal “unskewed” polls because conservatives just knew that the MSM was lying for the liberals.
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Kbells
Exaggeration is one thing. Fantasy is another. Climate change? Congressional research report that show there is no correlation between the tax cuts and economic growth?
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CB,
You mean this one?
http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/2012/11/dems-gop.html
“Senate Republican aides said they had protested both the tone of the report and its findings. Aides to Mr. McConnell presented a bill of particulars to the research service that included objections to the use of the term “Bush tax cuts” and the report’s reference to “tax cuts for the rich,” which Republicans contended was politically freighted.
They also protested on economic grounds, saying that the author, Thomas L. Hungerford, was looking for a macroeconomic response to tax cuts within the first year of the policy change without sufficiently taking into account the time lag of economic policies. Further, they complained that his analysis had not taken into account other policies affecting growth, such as the Federal Reserve’s decisions on interest rates.
“There were a lot of problems with the report from a real, legitimate economic analysis perspective,” said Antonia Ferrier, a spokeswoman for the Senate Finance Committee’s Republicans. “We relayed them to C.R.S. It was a good discussion. We have a good, constructive relationship with them. Then it was pulled.””
If so, color me unimpressed.
Also from the Wall St Journal
“Wall Street Journal editorial: Congressional Research Hit Job: Democrats Politicize a Supposedly Nonpartisan Think Tank:
The Congressional Research Service is supposed to be a nonpartisan research tool for the House and Senate, but like so many institutions in Washington it is now being hijacked for partisan ends. The dispute concerns a highly politicized CRS tax study that Democrats have been trying to use as a cudgel against Mitt Romney.
The tax study just happened to appear on the CRS website in September in the heat of the Presidential tax debate. Author Thomas Hungerford purported to show that 65 years of changes in “top tax rates have had little association with saving, investment or productivity growth.” The timing couldn’t have been better for President Obama, and the usual liberal media suspects picked it up. So did New York Senator Chuck Schumer, who used it in a speech to attack tax reform.
Mr. Hungerford tells us the study wasn’t requested by a Member of Congress, so perhaps it was his idea. You won’t be surprised to learn that Mr. Hungerford has donated to the Obama campaign and Senate Democrats and worked as an economist at the White House budget office under Bill Clinton.”
Is this report Fantasy, exaggeration, or both?
I pick C.
🙂
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I’ll ask the difficult question: why should God bless America?
For 40 years our nation has deliberately and often proudly killed people in the name of personal autonomy. Many of our leaders have shaken their fists and announced there is no God and followed up with policies that agree.
I spent three days rereading Ezekiel 34 this week about shepherds who have failed their sheep. That’s a pretty good description of many within the church of God.
If you lived during a time that God was withdrawing his hand, what would it look like?
This time?
Why ever not?
And for those who believe themselves to be remnants, how, then, should you live your life in such a craven society?
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Constant unfounded accusations of racism are just exaggeration?
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“If you lived during a time that God was withdrawing his hand, what would it look like?”
Michelle, our pastor answers that question with: A society that condones killing its young. 😦 We’ve actually been there for a while ….
Like the proverbial frog in the pot of boiling water?
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Certainly. 40+ million slaughtered since Roe vs. Wade, we’re in the neighborhood of Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler.
The only difference is their henchmen looked the victims in their eyes before they killed them. 😦
Hyperbole?
How would you respond if you were looking at creation through God’s eyes?
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AJ
The journal piece you cite is an opinion piece — entitled “Congressional Research Hit Job”. The corollary to the Wall Street Journal opinion piece is NYT’s opinion piece by Bruce Bartlett (a former Reagan Administration official and Bush 41 Treasury official who has been deemed a RINO by several conservative media outlets). Bartlett writes in part:
“And, as I often note, growth increased after Bill Clinton raised the top rate to 39.6 percent in 1993 from 31 percent, contrary to every Republican’s expectations, and growth has been stagnant since George W. Bush reduced the top rate to 35 percent in 2003, as well as slashing the tax rate on capital gains and dividends to 15 percent.
Republicans assured us that these measures would lead to rapid growth. They did not.
Right-wing think tanks were quick to jump on the Congressional Research Service report. In brief blog posts on Sept. 17, both the Heritage Foundation and the Tax Foundation simply dismissed its conclusions without offering any remotely convincing evidence of error. Their purpose was not to offer a serious critique but rather to send a signal to Republicans in Congress that the study contradicted party dogma.
… I have noted that federal purchases increased significantly under Reagan because of his military buildup and that Federal Reserve policy strongly supported growth in the early 1980s. Today, there is enormous pressure to cut spending and the Fed is severely constrained by the fact that its target interest rate is already at zero.
The appropriate response for Republicans critical of the Congressional Research Service report’s findings would have been to convene a conference, at which I am sure the author would have gladly participated, or to get the House Ways and Means Committee, which is under Republican control, to call a hearing.
Getting the report withdrawn smacks of censorship. Andrew Rosenthal, editor of The New York Times’s editorial page, commented, “Congressional Republicans seem to think that the C.R.S. should function like Pravda.” Pravda was, of course, the official organ of the Soviet Communist Party.
The irony is that the Republican effort to quash the report has led to it getting vastly more attention than if they had simply ignored it. Censorship has a funny way of doing that.”
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What I am seeing from my left leaning friends with the layoffs after the elections is to “google” where the founders of these companies live and make a big fuss over the size of their homes. The guy who started Papa John’s Pizza lives in a castle but laid off workers. The owner of an electric company lives in a nice house. Why should that matter? They tood the risk, they made the money. When did we become so jealous of someone else’s success instead of thinking “that could be me”?
What’s next? Will we storm the castle and drag “Papa John” out and make him pay for his crimes?
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Michelle
I know you will disagree with this and generally I try to eschew the abortion discussions because it really gets nowhere fast — but the analogy of the USG to Pol Pot, Stalin and so forth is one that simply does not ring true and does not make the pro-life case more convincing.
In the US, in the case of abortion you have a government that permits the choice of individual citizens with respect to terminating a pregnancy. With Stalin, Pol Pot and Hitler you had a government that was designed and implemented pogroms to eliminate, i.e. to commit genocide on its population. You can fault our government for being too permissive and having the wrong law, but the government is not the entity that is deciding to have an abortion. It’s the individual who is making that decision.
I say this honestly and with as much sensitivity as I can — statements that pro-life advocates make that compare abortion to government perpetrated genocide have the effect on people like me to discount other valid arguments you might make.
Donna
Infanticide has been widely practiced in the ancient world and in the west up to about the 4th century which is when the laws began to change in the west. (Note, I am not comparing exposure, drowning, suffocating, etc of a live born baby with abortion, but I know that you all do so, this seems pertinent.) Societies from prehistoric times up until the 21st century if you have a look at India, China and other countries have engaged in this practice. It is much less frequent in the modern era and there is a recognition of infanticide as murder that is much more broad than at any time in recorded human history, so I have to wonder why God would disengage when humanity as a whole has improved its record on the issue?
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KBells
Which constant accusations those that note comments like Sunnunu saying Colin Powell only endorsed Obama because of race or the commentary on Powell as an affirmative action hire in the wake of his endorsement? Or Ann Coulter’s new book that proclaims that racism no longer exists? Or Mark Steyn’s stereotypical discussions of minorities? Denying that a problem exists does not make it disappear. There are racism issues in the US, in both parties and in both directions minorities also stereotype whites.
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Kim
I agree with you — taking out after folks who’ve taken a risk and have succeeded is just not right.
I can tell you what my lefty friends would say as I’ve had this conversation with them. They note that CEOS pay has more than quadrupled over the last couple of decades while average worker compensation stagnated. Last year saw a 14 percent increase in CEO pay even as companies were not hiring and telling employees that providing health care coverage per ObamaCare would bankrupt companies. My lefty friends think the CEOs are only about maximizing profit and could really care less about jobs.
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CB, When we compare America’s abortion record to Cambodian, Russian or Nazi mass murders, we are not trying to change the minds of people on the other side. Rather, we are trying to honestly see how God may view the US. As you noted, infanticide has been practiced by many peoples. Those civilizations, from the Canaanites to the Aztecs, have not ended well.
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CB, no offense taken at all and I agree with you about the hyperbole.
My intended point was to look at it from God’s point of view. Just as sin is sin to God no matter the veniality of it, so, too, one killing of an innocent is still a killing to God–because he looks at the attitude of the heart.
So, given the general attitudes of the heart of our nation, why should God bless America–other than his grace and mercy?
This is intended as a question for our individual hearts–because that’s where God resides. This election has given many of us an opportunity to reconsider where we put our trust and how we act our trust.
It’s also an opportunity, as you have gracefully been reminding us, to consider what we put into our minds. I’ve been cringing at some of the pithy comments on FB, not because they aren’t humorously ironic, but because they continue to sow an attitude of bitterness.
Every Christian in America probably ought to study 1 Samuel in the coming months to remind ourselves what God warned about following an earthly leader rather than him.
We have the keys to eternal life. We are God’s hands and feet to a grace-less, hate-filled, bitter, jealous world that needs a Savior. Love needs to be our aim and we should never forget that in the world we will have tribulation but we CAN and should be of good cheer– for Jesus has overcome the world.
I’m more cheerful already! 🙂
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Ricky
No civilization actually ends well at least not from the history books we have. Rome split into two with the west descending into chaos and the east hanging on until its eventual conquest by the Ottomans who in turn lost empire to a resurgent western Europe. The Han dynasty fell to a horde just as the Romans had done. That’s actually how civilizations historically have fallen.
How does God view it? I don’t think anyone on this earth actually knows the answer to that.
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Thinking about this a little more, I realize our nation did the same thing to the native Americans, systematically worked at destroying them and their culture. Maybe my argument has too many holes. Carry on. I’ll think some more.
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CB
The bok I have about how children were treated in Western Europe from the Fall of Rome, ca.500 AD, to ca. 1500 AD, gives statistics of from 5% to 20% infanticide. Is this really much different than how we treat our children?
Add our abortion rate to to how unattended so many of our children of single mothers are raised and I’ll bet you get over 5%.
When we were very involved in adoptions, early 1980s, there were over 50,000 children in foster care and 10,000 in Adoptions waiting for placement. This was not in the State of California, but in Los Angeles County alone!
Does this say anything about the heart of America?
This is a matter for the Church and believers, not for politics. Since this is the responsibility of the Church and the response of people to the call of God, the Church and the nation will be judged accordingly. This is all in Revelation.
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One could argue the reasons the nations fall is due to the lack of interest in the things of God. We were discussing this yesterday here in the house, and one of the children said, “We are acting just like the Israelites.” Yep.
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Bob
What it says is that humanity still has a long way to go and that Americans are human despite our claims to exceptionalism. That we have social issues to grapple with. All I can say on Revelation is that Christians have been claiming that it is all there and we will be judged since the book was written. What we know from Jesus’ own mouth is that no one will know the hour. It does little good to focus on when the end of days is. It does a lot of good to focus on making things better now. Frankly, if I could I would abolish the entire end of times industry and rechannel the millions of dollars being spent on that into something that makes a real difference. Guess its a good thing I’m not the (mostly) benevolent dictator! 🙂
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Mumsee
How does that analogy apply to non-Christian civilizations? Chinese dynasties often lasted for millenia without the Abrahamic faith. I think the comparison of the USA to Israel as a chosen nation is misguided at best and arrogant presumption at worst.
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I don’t want to get CB in trouble by agreeing with her, so pretend that I am criticizing here vehemently, thus making her correct, which she is.
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CB at 10:09, I would agree with you that no one knows for certain how God views current or recent historical events.
As to your first point, there is an exception. Thanks to Lost Cause historians, we know that the Old South went out in a blaze of glory and still lives in the hearts of young Southerners.
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Ricky
Rome (western Empire) was overcome by the horde and still lives in the hearts of mankind today. 🙂
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God is very merciful. Many civilizations have existed without the Abrahamic faith. But when the people of a nation know and embrace the faith, and then consciously and deliberately reject it, I have to think that nation is flirting with judgment. But who knows what the future holds. God is certainly more patient and long suffering than we are. Let’s hope for reconciliation and revival, rather than division and disaster.
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CB, My old Latin teacher would most certainly agree with you.
Debra, How about division and revival?
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Ha. Ricky, you sound awfully intent on division these days. I think I understand why. I toyed with that idea several years ago, but recently I’m feeling more conciliatory. The United States is not just an idea to me; it’s geography as well. I love its varied *land* as well as its constitution, and it’s current [annoying] inhabitants no less than its historical heroes and heroines. So when it comes down to it, I guess I enjoy being annoyed almost as much as I enjoy instigating the annoyance. Why ruin that perfect relationship with the bloodshed that inevitably accompanies division. But we sure could use the revival.
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Sigh. What one of my FB friends posted today:
“Unless the Republican Party makes some changes, the Republican Party in America will begin to fall like they have in California. I am ok with that by the way. =) ”
Really? And why exactly would California be praised as a good example of pure Democrat party rule?
😉
I’ve heard several obituaries of both parties over the years. They both find a way to rebound.
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Debra, My preferred plan is emigration. Division would be an interesting alternative. Ideally, there would need to be a clear definition of what each new nation stood for, followed by voluntary migrations of people who would find themselves “in the wrong country”. Our South has been greatly harmed by the dominant American culture, and I honestly would feel better if my grandchildren could make a fresh start in a place like Chile or Estonia. However, out of respect for my ancestors who fought for Texas and the Confederacy, I would stay if either of those nations were reconstituted.
As to bloodshed, if the former USSR can divide in a peaceful manner, I believe the current US could follow suit.
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Ricky, there’s no place to go.
No hiding place.
Chile
Estonia
New Zealand
Australia
China
????????????????
No place to go.
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Chas, I agree that there is no perfect place, but there are a number of countries where the spiritual, moral and economic climate is superior to the US. The key is to focus on trajectory. The US peaked some time ago and is clearly heading down. On the other hand, Chile, Singapore, South Korea, Poland, and others are headed up.
Almost four centuries ago, my ancestors left their old countries to seek a better life for their children. Citizens of the US will soon begin to emulate their ancestors.
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And if you were going to go somewhere, are you sure they would take you?
Because of all our moving, we generally check out a location whenever we visit somewhere new, just in case a chance came to move there.
Ten years ago we liked New Zealand very much and figured as long as we could access Amazon to buy books, it might not be a bad place to live at all.
However, if you emigrated after the age of 45 , you had to either move a business with you or put up a $1 million bond.
I don’t know how they handle illegal aliens in that country . . . .
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Anyone game for Ireland or Scotland? 🙂
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I love to travel, so I’d visit Ireland or Scotland or especially Sweden in a heartbeat. But emigration would be too much like exile to me. I was born here and if God graces me with the opportunity, I’ll die here as well. I would view it as an unspeakable tragedy if my children were to raise their children anywhere else.
( And I’m not one who’s a big believer in ‘American exceptionalism’ per se, but I do love this land.)
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Michelle, You raise a very good point. For young people, the best option is to obtain work with a multinational corporation in your desired country, establish roots, and work toward citizenship as others have done in the US. Many nations take retirees with adequate income. However, in the future, the value of our dollars will decline and other countries will be less likely to accept Americans who will become more desperate to escape.
Ireland beats the US on economic freedom and its churches are well attended. However, the spiritual and moral health of Western Europe is horrible. I would avoid Western Europe and all English speaking countries in order to get as far as possible from American culture, morality and theology.
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When we visited Ireland we stayed in a rented house out in the country. We got a little taste of life there. Food and gas is expensive, the roads are really narrow and they drive like maniacs, the nearest Baptist church was an hour and a half away, they are very picky about environmental stuff (we were asked to sort, wash recycle everything) and unless they are trying to sell you something I didn’t find the people that friendly. Good side; lots of cool castles and no snakes. I wouldn’t want to live there for long.
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CB at 11:26,
Just saying that man can not make it alone. God will not be mocked. By Christians or non Christians and in His time.
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People around here seem to favor Bolivia. I favor staying put.
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Staying put is a good idea. Moving to another country at this point in my life seems intimidating. Now if the children and grandchildren uproot…
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Bolivia makes me think of colorful scarves & hats. We could learn to knit and become a small business.
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Wasn’t it in Bolivia that Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid were shot to pieces?
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Oh well. There is that.
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But were they wearing nice, colorful knitted scarves, hats and gloves?
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Roger Williams observed Christians killing each other in England, a very pious (if bloody and vicious) country in his time. He optimistically set sail for Massachusetts, dreaming of a land of peace and tolerance. Didn’t quite work out as he hoped. Even when he split from the other Puritans and set up his own colony, it still suffered strife and turmoil, though he seems to have been a fairly competent governor.
It’s just the way we (human beings) are. Whether you believe that humans are all “fallen” because Adam and Eve were disobeying Daddy God (as I gather everyone here does) or you believe (as I do) we rose to the top of the food chain because we were the meanest mammals in the evolution junkyard, we are a dangerous crew and our own worst enemies. There’s no place to go to escape from our often dreadful occasionally wonderful selves. Even Worldmagblog, perhaps the most wonderful online collection of Protestants in the world has split into this little realm, one so confused it tolerates me in the dubious hope that I will become a religious believer before I croak.
We are a bad, bad lot, bad to the bone.
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Donna, @5:27
Government officials in Ireland say a constitutional amendment which would give greater state control over children is set to be approved with an approximately 60 percent “yes” votes.
Are you sure you want to do that?
I know that doesn’t affect you, but anyone who would give government control over their children can’t be trusted.
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