Good Morning.
Happy Saturday!
Quote of the Day
“Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom.”
Thomas Jefferson
Wandering Views
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Good Morning.
Happy Saturday!
Quote of the Day
“Honesty is the first chapter in the book of wisdom.”
Thomas Jefferson
The greatest WordPress.com site in all the land!
History, Real Life, and Faith
This WordPress.com site is the bee's knees
Wandering Views 
Good morning. And a happy Saturday to all of you! We’re going to my husbands’ folks today. 2nd Arrow will also be going there, so it’ll be nice to see her again.
God’s blessings on your day.
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Have a great trip 6Arrows, and enjoy your time with 2nd Arrow.
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Buenos días.
From yesterday: Kare asked if there are any full serve gas stations in the US. I am not sure if they wash windows and check the oil, but some states (New Jersey is one) there are laws against self serve. Sometimes I wish that were the case here. Where I get gas, there are a lot of people who leave the engine running or smoke while filling their cars.
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New Hub’s has two ball games he wants to watch today. One at 11 and of course that one at 6. He said we could go do something between the two games–whatever I wanted to do. Answer: Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all. I may want to just sit on the sofa and stare out the window. October has been a busy, busy month so far.
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When we lived in NJ, I still worked in PA so I could choose whether to fill up my gas tank in NJ or across the river. If it was raining, I chose NJ, so I didn’t have to pump gas in the rain. Plus it was cheaper in NJ despite not having self-serve, because the state taxes on the gas were lower.
But the lines were often long, since there was usually only one person doing all the pumping and taking payment. Plus, after years of doing self-serve in PA, I felt awkward sitting in the car while someone else did it for me, when I was perfectly capable of doing it myself. And most of the stations were owned/operated by immigrants (mostly from India, I think), and it was often hard to understand their accent.
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I’ve had sinus congestion all week, which is nothing all that unusual for me. But while the headaches are mild, I’ve also had mild nausea since Tuesday. My husband says it’s probably from sinus drainage – he occasionally has that problem.
Since I also get mild nausea from going too long without eating, I’m used to eating when I feel that way. But now eating more than just a little makes me feel worse. Blech!
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Good Satureday morning everyone.\
We went out for a Shriner’s pancake breakfast this morning. I shouldn’t be taking all those useless calories, but Shriner’s support the children’s hospital in Greenville.
The Gamecocks play the Gators in Gainesville today. It’s on CBS at 3:30.
I may watch it. 🙂
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Chas, Shriner’s do good work. My dad was a Shriner for a while. I always dig for change to “fill the boot” for volunteer fire departments, Shriner’s, and Knights of Columbus.
Of course now I have Ray Steven’s Shriner’s Convention going through my head.
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The sunrise and sunsets here have been absolutely majestic here in Colorado this week…always reminding from where my help comes from…it has been an extremely stress filled week for me…frustrating and blood pressure raising situations. Taking this weekend off and going for a run 🙂
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What a way to wake up, Kim! Vroooom!!!!
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I got out the griddle and made blueberry pancakes for us. I have some pumpkin in the fridge and plan on making pancakes with that, too. It will be nice to have some in the freezer for quick breakfasts. A small pancake serves as bread and works in moderation in a healthy diet. It’s those piles of pancakes with lots of syrup that should only be consumed by marathon runners who burn up all those carbs. Since NancyJill is going for a run perhaps she would like some virtual pancakes?
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We are having a drizzly morning here. Or, as Pooh might say, a misty moisty morning.
Hubby and I watched Chelsea beat Tottenham this moring and will watch the Gamecocks beat the Gators. Bama and Tennesee might be a good game if the Vols can rally. Glad the Giants won last night.
Can you tell I am trying to avoid politics? 😉 Adios
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Raining here. Little folk and I just got in from doing the chores and singing songs like “Wade in the Water”, “Raindrops Keep Falling”, “It’s a Happy Happy Day”. We have fun doing the chores.
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Mumsee – you and your children always make me smile! 🙂
Just put in some angel food cupcakes to bake for my daughter’s birthday – hope they turn out ( I am NOT a baker)
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On the WorldMag blog, Chelsea Kolz has a question she discusses:
“Is there something you wanted badly but never got?”
An interesting question. When I was growing up, I always wanted a decent place to live. We never had a comfortable house, and I was always ashamed of the kind of places we lived in. I never had a real home. I’m sure some of Mumsee’s kids can relate to that.
However, I did get such a place. In 1949, I moved to Air Force barracks.
In 1953, I moved to college dorm, and in 1955, a room across from the campus.
Elvera and I lived in a 35′ house trailer from 1957 to 1965.
In 1965, I finally got a house that was mine. It was a small three BR, one bath frame house. But it was a good place in Falls Church, Va. It cost $14,400.
In 1972, we bought a nice split level in Annandale, and stayed there till we moved to Hendersonville. Here, I have too much. If I could sell this place, I would move to an assisted living place in Greensboro. Chuck wants us to do that.
My parents bought their first house after we bought our Falls Church house.
Those first 35 years don’t seem such a long time when everything is counted. But they were important years and it’s hard to get past them.
As for the question, I have to say “no”, I eventually got everything I prayed for. It took a long time, but I got it.
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Chas, I tried to comment on Chelsea’s post but when I wrote, “Desire is fickle,” as my first sentence of my comment the system put ****** for the word fickle as if I needed to be bleeped. I am a bit naive, but I never thought of fickle as a bad word? Sorry if it is and I just don’t know it. Anyway, I deleted my comment there so as not to give the appearance of doing something I ought not. I was going to say that I once wanted to learn to play the piano and wanted a piano. When I married, my husband had a piano. I could have learned to play it, but by that time I had lost my desire to play the piano. My husband played so I could just enjoy his playing. Then my son taught himself to play. I enjoyed listening to him play, too..
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There have only been two things in life I ever wanted and didn’t get. Growing up I wanted a big brother to love me, look after me, and protect me. I always chose friend’s with brothers. I married a man who still is an excellent big brother both to his sister and to me. My step-brother has been a decent big brother too. So really the only thing in life I desperately wanted and didn’t get was a second child. Of course now I have married a man with three boys–all older than BG, so maybe I am providing for her what I didn’t get and getting myself some extra children!
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Good morning. The way to get rid of Internet trolls (which you may consider me) is to ignore them. You may be close to “de-trolling me” but a courteous gentleman screen named Solarpancake has taken on the mantle of converting the atheist dragontroll. [That would be a great screen name! From now on, please address me as Atheist Dragon Troll As long as people keep trying to be St. George (and as long as I am alive and barely functioning) I may be infesting your peaceful and pleasant hamlet.
However, I will be gone for a few weeks. You may miss me. You may forget me. You may pine for me. I guess you will do whatever God tells you to do. I am not quite gone just yet.
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Some of our children have had interesting home situations.
As for me, I always wanted a monkey. Now that I am grown, I do not want a monkey, though I have thought it would be fun to have a monkey reserve here. In reality, my home life is much livelier than a monkey reserve would be and that is okay with me. God apparently knows better what we need than we do.
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Hi Atheist Dragon Troll,
Have a wonderful trip. I am afraid I have taken to skimming some of your posts, reading a few, and skipping the rests. But I suspect, a lot of people do the same to mine and that is okay.
I remember years ago when we had the debate of whether or not to put the names at the beginning of the posts so we could skip the ones we wanted. That is available here, but when we skip due to a name, we often miss good stuff. Not always.
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I am still mystified about a “Loving” God who sends people to Hell. I guess it makes sense to all of you. Just the way it is I guess. Some people think this makes sense. Some people don’t. Grounds enough for sending me to Hell, evidently.
It is interesting reading a conservative Christian web site. For example, if Satan had been in ACTUAL PRESENCE OF GOD (as wonderful as that must be), why would he rebel?
And I always wondered why if Satan could read the Bible and know that he loses in the end, why struggle on? And why is Christianity so exciting to each of you? Well, you don’t really know if you are going to Hell or not, do you. That would keep me going (if I believed that nonsense). And even though God is omnipotent, omniscient, etc. each soul is “in play.” So just like you never know if you play football if you will win or lose, if you will scramble your brain with a concussion, but it’s exciting and the result never apparent until the QB bends his knee (love that phrase), each soul is “in play” and YOU can be a player. Just think how much Jesus will pet you and praise you as a lovely pet if you bring Him Random Atheist DragonTroll’s soul on a tray! Exciting stuff.
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There’s no reason I have to be well-behaved and altruistic. Just my genome, my upbringing, and my culture. Humanity seems to be dividing (as Karen Armstrong among others indicates) into tolerant and intolerant “wings.” She calls the latter team “fundamentalists.” You guys are more on the “fundamentalist side,” though not the worst (in my subjective opinion).
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The “basic principles” (which didn’t “come from God”) are fairly simple in principle.
DON’T murder, torture, rape, enslave.
DO survive, tolerate, care for, assist, learn, improve.
Hmm . . . that’s 10. Just a coincidence.
These “rules” are fairly simple and obvious. However, the details are difficult.
Is abortion murder?
Should you tolerate intolerant people.
Just those two points should keep you busy discussing for thousands of years. Though maybe you would prefer to discuss monkeys and pianos and cats and filling gas tanks.
I am going to the gym to keep my Atheist Dragon Troll bod alive a little longer.
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My understanding, which is not the final answer, is that God made Hell for the fallen angels. People choose to go there as well. Anything to get away from God and to avoid confronting their own sin. God allows them to go rather than force them to spend eternity in His Presence. He has done everything to make it available to all. Many still choose separation.
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Thank you. Bye for now.
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You are so wise, Mumsee!
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Johnny Manziel and Texas A&M will take it to LSU today…
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Re getting everything we want: When I was single, I sometimes told people that I had gotten everything in life I ever really wanted except children. As to having a husband, that was “if I find one who is good enough–if I find a man who I want more than I want his children.” In other words, I wasn’t going to marry just to have children, bit neither did I want to get married just to marry. Once I got past 30 I pretty much even stopped thinking about marriage (as I’d determined to do if I got past 30 still single–since I only knew one person who got married for the first time past the age of 30, and she was well into her 60s when she met her husband), but then after I moved to Nashville my desire to get married revved up (partly because I started meeting people who married after 30, and found out that internet dating can be a good option, and decided it might actually be possible to marry).
But I’d tell people this: I had everything I ever wanted in life with the possible excepti0n of a husband and the definite exception of children; thus, if I ended up married with kids on top of everything else, it would be more blessing than any one person should have.
Fifty-two weeks ago I walked down the aisle to marry a man who is better than I ever dreamed, and to become stepmother to two very sweet young women.
Whatever dreams I have left, unfulfilled, are in the “it would be nice if . . .” category. It would be nice to publish a fiction book someday; it would have been nice to have a safari in Africa or to visit England (neither is at all likely to happen). But truly I have nothing on my “I won’t be happy unless I get this” list, and everything on my “I’d really like to do this someday” list has been fulfilled. In fact, one of my “it would be nice someday” was met rather incidentally in getting married: We both had dreamed of someday having a home library, and between us we had too many books not to have a library. So we turned the family room into a library (and the living room into a family room) and we are both very pleased with the result.
Does that mean I set my dreams too low or that I understand contentment?
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Tolerance is an interesting thing, a two-edged sword. Because in some cases, demanding a particular form of “tolerance” translates to intolerance for others. Gay marriage is a case in point as it’s playing out.
The more it is co-opted into school curriculums and in specific anti-bullying laws, the less society tolerates religious convictions that lead them to another conclusion (thus, “hate speech” begins to include expressions of positions that simply are not sanctioned by the current powers that be).
And yes, imagine, being in God’s presence — or, equally, having what is the full revelation of God in the Old and New Testaments — yet still rebelling. It happens. Go figure.
We are a stiff-necked people.
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Well, word is in that the first deer was harvested by the youngest hunter. The boys are all talk, the girl got the deer. She also gutted it and carried it out and hung it up. You go girl. She is also the one who is most attached to animals, and the one who wants to be a forensic something or other when she grows up. Used to want to be just a doctor.
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I can’t think of anything I’ve “always” wanted and never had, but for quite a few years I’ve wanted a close friend but haven’t had one. I know a large part of that is having moved around, first from NJ to MI then briefly to IL and now to IA. Most people I know around here have been in the area their whole lives. Being new in town may mean having lived here only the last ten or fifteen years, after having lived elsewhere in the county (or maybe even the next county over) previously. So they have a large network of friends and family.
I was chatting with my co-worker Chris recently, and she commented (not directing it at me but in reference to someone else) that if you want a social life you have to go out and make it happen. I had hoped that by getting involved in community activities such as a community choral group, Scouting, and church I would open up some good opportunities for friendships. I have acquaintances, but no close friendships. And what friends I did make over the first several years, I don’t see them anymore because they were at my previous job or one of the previous churches. (The church we are at now is my husband’s first “called” position, as opposed to pulpit supply, since we moved here.)
Chris asked me (in a different conversation) what I would want to go out and do with friends. And there I get stuck. If I have friends, I’m happy doing whatever they like doing, because what matters to me is being with them, not what we’re doing. (I wouldn’t enjoy going to a rock concert, but I’d probably go along anyway just for the sake of being included in an activity with friends.)
When my husband and I were dating, he told me that, after our first date, he wasn’t sure he wanted to go out with me again, because I expressed no opinions or preferences about what to do. He’d suggest a movie, or a restaurant, and I’d say, “Sure.” I grew up going to neither movies nor restaurants, and going to any was a treat, it didn’t matter which. (I’ve since realized that some of the movies he likes are too dark for me. I don’t watch any of the Batman movies with him, and he often just watches with our older son, telling me I probably wouldn’t like it – which I probably wouldn’t.)
My favorite activities are usually reading, puzzles, and taking walks. But I haven’t found anyone who wants to walk on a regular basis, and reading and puzzles don’t lend themselves to group activities…
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I should have explained that the close friendships I have had in the past all kind of just happened. But in the last 14 years they haven’t…
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Pauline, what about finding a book club? Several years ago someone suggested MeetUp to me. I checked but there weren’t any groups near me. There were a lot in Pensacola but that is about an hour away. What I do remember is that there were groups of people interested in doing almost anything. I never checked into starting one, but it looked simple enough.
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(Pauline) Or how about starting a book club at your church? Ours has one, they get 2 books to read in a session and then meet once a week to discuss (I think maybe there are a few groups, all women, who read the same books and then meet weekly to discuss — these are ladies who don’t work outside the home, however, and meet on weekdays).
They also go on day trips from time to time, to a museum or maybe just out to lunch at a different restaurant at the beach.
I’m guessing your church may be smallish, but maybe a book club could still be formed. Our groups have read some pretty good books (mostly nonfiction, most of them related to the faith, several focusing specifically on concerns of women).
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I see my friend about twice a month, in church, for about thirty seconds. But in the summer we try to get together for a few camping trips. This past summer was only one. But we know we are friends and will see each other in eternity. We know we can call on each other for accountability and for help, but we rarely do. Friends are not all the same and they may be there and not be seen. God understands our need for relationship. And this is the closest friendship I have ever had.
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Kim, I had been thinking of trying to find a book club, or even start one, but wasn’t sure how to go about it. (The books clubs I’ve know people to try to start never really got off the ground.) MeetUp has one half an hour away, which isn’t too bad. I’ll just have to adjust my schedule once a month (it meets Thursday evenings which is normally one of the times my son and I go to the Y to work out).
There was one place left for the November meeting (out of 20), so I took it. Now I have to get hold of a copy of Breakfast with Buddha (our library doesn’t have it but I put a hold on it to come from another library – though most of the other copies are already out – to other book club members?), and read it before Nov. 15.
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Pauline, if you lived nearby I would love to go on a walk with you and put together a 1,000 piece jigsaw puzzle. We try to do one of those puzzles on our annual vacation, but we did not get to this past year because our son had his friends with him and we did not have available space for it. So I have missed doing that.
I prayed years ago for a Christian friend. I did get a friend but she is only maybe a Christian or nominal but not practicing. She has attended church with me in the past but now does not go but talks like she would like to. I have been praying for her for years and get frustrated about our friendship because it is very one-sided. Now I have been given Christian friends through church. They are older than I am and therefore in a different stage of life. They are fun to do things with. God surely chose them for me. My best friends live in different states from where I live, and one is even all the way across country. We are planning to read a book together which is about doing 40 days of exercises to work toward a joy filled life. It is suppose to work better if you have an accountability partner. You might want to connect with someone like that. Sometime I guess my cross country friend and I could try Skype.
When I got together with a group of friends this past year for a few days I was the only one without an I-pad or smart phone so they all were doing that while I looked at a magazine. I felt a little awkward at that point, but that occurred only after we had a time of discussion and catching up. So sometimes when people are physically together these days it can still feel a bit lonesome because of all the techno mediums.
Pauline, I always look forward to seeing what you write. A lot of people are missing out by not seeking out your company in your community.
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Cheryl: Why wouldn’t you be able to visit England? Even if it’s not possible right now, it seems like it could be a realistic goal…
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Good for you Pauline. I am being a slug today.
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Tychichus, when I was single I planned to someday go to England, even saved money for it. But I had no one to go with, so I just put the money aside for the day I had a traveling partner. Then, when I bought a house, the money got absorbed into house expenses. Now if I were to go, it would of course have to be with my husband–and my hunch is it will only happen if one of the girls ends up settling overseas (which may happen–they both have some interest in other cultures). So at the moment it is “unlikely but not impossible,” and I can live with that, since it really only sounded like something I would enjoy if I had someone to go with, someone with whom I got along really well. (At one point some friends suggested going with a tour, but it’s the sort of thing I’d want to plan with someone–the anticipation is half the fun–and then talk about with that person after we got back. Traveling in the States, if it doesn’t involve much driving, is something I can do myself. But I wouldn’t want to do so across the world.)
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Today has been my guilty pleasures day. I cleaned out the alcove that used to be the “office”. It still has all the office-y stuff in it but I got rid of Old Real Estate Company files. I gave them all to Guy last week. I threw away stuff that had accumulated in the file cabinet and gave Paul the top drawer for his papers and records. Not having a shredder I took some things outside to a large clay pot and burned them. I made some salsa, cream cheese, cheddar cheese dip for Paul to have when he was watching the earlier games. He made pancakes this morning. We are having leftovers-clean out the refrigerator tonight. I have washed laundry and surfed the web catching up here, Facebook, Ace of Spades, and Hillbuzz. At one point Paul asked if he was doing everything right or if there was anything he was doing that bugged me. I had to think for a moment and luckily a commercial came on TV and I told him “Yes! It is really irritating me right now that you haven’t gone and put the sheets in the dryer.” So he did. I think I will keep him. He has managed to get my Boy Dog to stay on the sofa and not chase the cat and he has managed to get Baby Girl to do additional chores around the house. He routinely explains to me that she is 15 and this too shall pass- enjoy her while you’ve got her.
Grandson will be here in November. This causes no end of smirks and giggles and a few thank you’s among my friends. I think we are planning a trip to DC-Annapolis sometime in March or April-Whenever BG’s Spring Break is. I really want to take her to the Holocaust Museum and I want to be with her when she goes. Besides, the Baby should have personality by then and I do so love to rock babies.
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Kim has a grandson!
Wise guy SIL asked if I watched a football game.
I didn’t see nobody playing football.
😥
I have a real mix in my family:
Brian is a Florida man
Jeremy (Jenn’s) is a kentucky man
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Donna wrote:
We are a stiff-necked people.
Indeed. As Pauline (not a particularly stiff-necked person as I interpret the phrase) wrote, sometimes you may have to choose whether you can afford to use a chiropractor. On the other hand, if we are referring to people who get their stiff necks bent out of shape about “gay marriage,” perhaps this group could support an entire college of chiropractors for centuries.
[I hasten to add that I am not alleging that Pauline would tolerate a homosexual marriage, but she would quite likely be very discreet about her thoughts and feelings and not very likely to get her nose or neck bent out of shape if a homosexual couple (married or not) moved next door.]
Not that I am putting words into Pauline’s mouth or mind.
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Chas, the grandson is due to be born in November.
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The other day, my wife (a very – cover your eyes – politically liberal person – grumpily mentioned that she saw very few Obama-Biden bumper stickers on cars, even in our very liberal part of the island. Wishing to stay married for another year or two, I refrained from pointing out that she would rather die than have any kind of bumper sticker on our car. I figure the best way to start a trend – such as going to Hell – is to do it myself and set a model for other people to emulate.
Hey, hey, hey;
I’m burning in Hell
You can freeze in Hades
Just about as well.
Today, on the way to the gym, I saw several people standing with Romney–Ryan signs at the side of the main highway. Some cars driving past honked. (I inferred those were approval honks.) I felt some irritation, not having an easy way to communicate sarcastic remarks about faux Christian-Mormons and/or billionaires who are going to help middle-class working people by lowering taxes for other real billionaires. Although I had no easy way to communicate my scorn; as I am senile, I managed to embarrass myself, nevertheless.
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CONTEST!! CONTEST!! BIG CASH PRIZES TO YOUR CHURC!!
CONTEST ANNOUNCEMENT:</i<I am announcing a contest for the three or four people who fret about my damned soul, so they will have something to do while I am gone. It's a story contest, with two sections. As I am poor (and squandering the money we can't afford for our long journey) the prizes will be very small. I will send $5 to the church of each winner. I am sure your church does marvelous things with donation plate money, such as pay starving ministers.
Fine print and qualifications:As you can see, I am a liar, so you and your church may never see the prize. Also, as I am sentimental about the U.S. Post Office, I will send the prizes by snail mail to your church if you win, so you will have to let me know the street address of your church if you win. I will just send $5 in cash with no explanation and no snarky atheistic message to the church. You can tell your minister it was the Hand of God. Probably your minister is so gullible he will believe it. I do not believe in disabusing people about the their belief in the existence of God.
SETUP #1: Convincing message Imagine and write up the argument most likely to inspire my hard heart to open up and let Jesus into it.
SETUP #2: I am converted announcement Imagine if I did become a convert to Christianity, the comment I would write telling everyone of my change of heart. Write it up in the style you imagine I would use to deliver such a message.
Details and restrictions..
Wait until I get back to post the entry or entries. You may work individually or collaboratively, making it a group project if you prefer. No limit on length, No limit on kind or mean comments, about me, homosexuals, or any of my sacred cows.
SELECTING WINNERS.
Obviously, God should choose the winner. As God has been noticeably reticent and discreet about communicating His wishes in the last millennium or so and as I am sometimes accused of “putting myself above God,” I guess I will make the choice by purely arbitrary whim. I will post this announcement tomorrow morning as well. All decisions are arbitrary, random, and incomprehensible, just like God’s. Your mileage may vary.
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Pauline,
I have similar issues. 🙂 I have many, many acquaintances, and some friends among them. But, I don’t have any good friends. Partly, it is due to the fact that I am *too* busy in the various groups to which I belong, AND I’m usually in charge. This makes for a whole different dynamic than when one is part of the group simply as a member.
Partly it is how I define “good friend.” I want someone that likes to chat, likes to do projects/activities with me and spend time with me, and someone who is supportive.
I also want someone who can tell me the truth when I need hear it, but who is otherwise very supportive and is a “builder” not a “destroyer.” (I have one friend, who calls me her good friend, but from whom I’ve distanced myself, because she runs me down all the time — yes, even to my face — and is negative about me to others. And, she never seems to have time for me, unless she needs me. That isn’t something a friend ought to do, IMO.)
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Elvera has a friend who knew she has a BD this week. So, she entered her name in some sort of BD raffle. They drew her name and she received a certificate for a dozen donuts from Krispy Kreem today.
😦 Just more calories We don’t need, but we appreciate the gesture.
They will be eaten.
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Actually, I should point out that I did put up with this ‘friend’ running me down regularly for years and years, because our families enjoy each others’ company. However, when she started to do the same to my kids, then I put a brake on the friendship. I’m still friendly, but I no longer try to be friends … if that makes sense.
Others (who’ve seen it) have asked me why I put up with it so long. I tell them it’s because I know her background and realize that she has a very low self-esteem and runs me down without even realizing it much of the time. I find that she has many valuable qualities too, which I admire in her. But, the almost constant little digs really began to hurt, and then, when it started to happen regularly to my kids too, I had to step back.
And, yes, I did try to talk to her (multiple times) as per Matthew 18. I would have been okay with an attempt on her part to work on the situation even without much progress, but she doesn’t really see an issue and has no desire to change at all. 😦
BTW, for those of you on FB, she isn’t. So, no need to defend me there (unless you want to for some reason! 🙂 )
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In my opinion a friend builds you up, offers support even when you don’t realize you need it. One of my best friends would call me during the time my father was sick and tell me that mine and BG’s dinner was ready whenever we could get there to eat. She calls me when her family (mother and sister) are driving her insane and I assure her that she and I are the only sane people I know. I have another friend who is in an abusive relationship and I do my best to build her back up every chance I get. She wasn’t able to attend my party last week because her 80 year old mother wanted to go to the mountains this week. I told her her mother was 80 and her son was only 6, he wouldn’t have too many more good memories of his grandmother…go and don’t worry about me.
I like to think that a friend would bail you out of jail. A really good friend would be sitting beside you saying, Dang, that was fun.
If someone has to tear you down to build themselves up, it just isn’t worth it.
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Actually, I believe most of our extra church money is going to help a woman in our congregation who was diagnosed with cancer between jobs so did not have insurance. She and her hubby were trying to take on the challenge of their grandchildren after their daughter went back on the drug path. She has a very aggressive type and has had some very aggressive treatment, only diagnosed last spring. Final attempt will be surgery. Through it all, some sort of insurance did come through but she is still way short on money for it. So, the five dollars will help, thanks.
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I don’t know, Mumsee. On the one hand, suffering such as you describe is quite heart-rending. My millionaire cousin in Taiwan (a quite brilliant, modest, lovely, unassuming, attractive, and kindly woman — a Christian to boot, died of cancer despite the best treatment her immense money could purchase. Other close friends have died of cancer. On another hand, our society should do a better job of putting people in a position where they should not be in desperate straits because of “way short of money for it.” If you do not like the current “Affordable Care Act” Democratic proposal, that’s a comprehensible point of view, but I am very weary of people using “Obama-Care” as what strikes me as a code word dismissal without better alternatives (in my opinion). On another hand, we all die, and perhaps it takes “saved” people to a better place. So there’s a lot of hands in this mess.
A contest is a contest. I will choose the winners by self-obsessed whim, not out of kindness or special pleading. Life is not fair. Win in one of the categories and my $5 bucks will be on the way. But thank you for reading and commenting.
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Random (@7:15), we’re all pretty much like you believe Pauline would be. I’ve had many a gay neighbor, coworker & one relative (and, yeah, I’ve liked most all of them). I used to live in a city that had a very strong gay population, the “parade” was huge every year. I once worked for a company where the workforce was heavily gay.
As a Christian, I understand all too well our human frailties, perhaps different for many of us, but in the end, pretty much the same stuff we all fight or deal with.
I can’t think of anyone here who would ever come off in a “holier-than-thou” vein.
I like people, all kinds of people. All of them (me included) are, by nature, sinners (though some of us also are, at the same time, saints — but not of our good works, only by the grace of God alone). 😉
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Have a good trip. 😉 Try to shake some of the stereotypes.
And really, one’s eternal destiny is no laughing matter.
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Donna, I no more suffer from stereotypes of Christians than you suffer from stereotypes of homosexuals. I evaluate people by how they behave. Your behavior (in terms of all I know of you is your comments provide no irritation to me. Stars’ behavior is fairly irritating to me.
I disagree with you; I don’t think in a “disagreeable” manner. A while back, someone on wmb, screen name “Yeah,” talked about how the Old Testament approved putting practicing homosexuals to death. I didn’t take that as “all Christians want to kill homosexuals.” I took that as a careless comment from a possibly dangerous person.
I was irritated that other people at wmb did not call “Yeah” on his comment until I badgered everyone in an aggressive manner. I did not make any comments about “all Christians.” My main generalizations are 1) People in most affinity groups are reluctant to criticize fellow members. (Cops don’t want to criticize cops; lawyers are reluctant to criticize lawyers; doctors are reluctant to criticize doctors; atheists are reluctant to criticize atheists. That’s human nature; it’s understandable; but not admirable. I think the same comment applies to Stars and how he addresses me. I am sure I am guilty of similar behavior. Nevertheless, I would appreciate if someone said something to him about is way of talking to me and his accusations (which have very little foundation) of secularists trying to take over or force something on Christians. Again, as I have said a multitude of times, there are 30 or 40 churches on Whidbey Island, with a variety of points of view. There are maybe 20 people in my little group. We are not taking anything over; we are not forcing anything on anybody. That’s a stereotype (at the very least).
If you do not want me to engage of stereotypes of Christians (which I do not and challenge you to quote any comment where I do so) [and in fact at the meetings of my organization I sometimes speak against what I consider unfair comments about Christians], then I will be more impressed if I see similar behavior here.
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Have a good trip. 😉 Try to shake some of the stereotypes.
And really, one’s eternal destiny is no laughing matter.
1. Thank you for the wishes for a good trip.
2. What I said about my having stereotypes. What are they?
3. Our eternal destiny is eternal nothing. Again. this is “Pascal’s Wager” over and over. So I guess I have to break down the logic over and over. (There are no “facts” except that we die and we know nothing about what happens after that. )
We don’t KNOW if there is a God. IF there is a God, we don’t know what He wants. If there is a God, we don’t know if He wants what you think or what any other religion says he wants. Because you REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY think you know enough of this convinces me of nothing. I will die and cease to exist. If there is a God like yours, he doesn’t want me to say I believe because I am making a wager.
That is a serious, non-laughing statement. As I have no convincing evidence of a God, there is nothing I can do about it besides live my life and laugh about our tragic destiny once in a while.
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Just in time. 57!
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Faith is believing in things not seen.
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I think the thing that keeps stereotypes going is that when someone encounters a group of people they don’t like or disagree with, they will igonore dozens of perfectly normal people but the one they will remember and tell their friends about is the one person who lived up to the stereotype. I have personally met a hippy in California, a rude waiter in France, and a colorful story telling old geezer in Ireland. I also met a lot of other people in all three places.
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KBells, I think your comment is quite accurate. I have not traveled to Ireland or France, but I lived in a black neighborhood and taught in a super diversified ghetto school. I met fine black people, fine Asians, fine Hispanics, fine Samoans and awful black people, awful Asians, awful Hispanics, awful Samoans, etc. I had black students who detested me because I was white and black students I got along with fine.
A distinction should be made between people in groups because of accidents of birth (such as race) and people in groups because of choices and ideology. Christians choose to be Christians. Christians claim to be uniform in belief. As far as I can see this is a self-chosen delusion. That’s an opinion not a stereotype. Some Christians I have met have been fine by my standards. Some have been awful by my standards.
Saying bad things about Nazis is probably not a stereotype because most Nazis believed in destructive evil things by choice. Even so, there were weird rare exceptions, most notably the German businessman (probably not a “real” Nazi) who saved many lives of Chinese people during the “Rape of Nanking.”A distinction should be made between people in groups because of accidents of birth (such as race) and people in groups because of choices and ideology. Christians choose to be Christians. Christians claim to be uniform in belief. As far as I can see this is a self-chosen delusion. That’s an opinion not a stereotype. Some Christians I have met have been fine by my standards. Some have been awful by my standards.
Saying bad things about Nazis is probably not a stereotype because most Nazis believed in destructive evil things by choice. Even so, there were weird rare exceptions, most notably the German businessman (probably not a “real” Nazi) who saved many lives of Chinese people during the “Rape of Nanking.”
Which then lead us to stereotypes about Japanese people and their alliance with the Nazis . . .
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Mumsee said, accurately:
“Faith is believing in things not seen.
I don’t believe in things unseen, though I accept the arguments about atoms and molecules and electrons and so on. But I base my faith on electricity turning on lights and atom bombs exploding, etc.
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As I’ve said, the problem comes when we disagree about decisions for social issues such as homosexual marriage. I live “next door” (1/4 acre away) to a Christian neighbor who accepts homosexual marriage. He bases his opinion on “things not seen.” He sees differently than you do in that regard. He thinks he will live after he dies. I see things differently than he does in the latter regard, which is probably closer to your belief system. Neither of you goes into the other’s church and argues about it. Some Christians will vote for Romney; some will vote for Obama.
Grete Cammermeyer, a Vietnam war heroine disagreed with my letter advocating privatization of marriage. She wants to marry her partner. I talked with her nephew (who may have talked with her). We are now on agreeable terms, though we may or not agree. The situation, while not shocking, is a little more complicated than I can talk about here.
We live in a society where people have different belief systems and we struggle to find common grounds. As far as I can see, a typical (though not universal) Christian response is “Believe as we do, and go along with the things unseen that we see.” I know no easy solution. I am not willing to go along with your arguments because of your belief system.
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Catching up on this thread…
Nancy Jill, your comment about going for a run…that makes me want to go running, too, right now! Too bad it’s rather dark out. 😉 I’ll save it for tomorrow. Hope you had (or will have) a good run — such a great stress-buster, and sounds like you really need that after this week. I’ll pray that next week your stress will be diminished. Enjoy those beautiful sunrises and sunsets. 🙂
Regarding the question “Is there something you wanted badly but never got?”. There’s not been anything I’ve wanted badly that I didn’t get, but probably the thing I would like the most that I’ve never had is a grand piano. I am thankful for the piano I do have, though, as I never had a piano in my home until I was an adult and a homeowner. I grew up practicing on the piano my grandparents (who lived next door) had. I always looked forward to the day I could have a piano in my own home and play it anytime I liked.
Friends: when I was young, I really wanted a person who would consider me her best friend. There was one person who perhaps considered me that; she had other friends, too, but we talked on the phone frequently (it was almost always she who called me, rather than the other way around), but she could be subtly insulting at times. I put up with that for a while, because I didn’t really have many good friends, and I thought anybody was better than nobody. After we started high school, though, she went to a different school, and my association with her sort of faded away.
Later she transferred to the high school I went to, got back in contact with me, and discovered I had a driver’s license (she didn’t). So she wanted me to drive her around to all the things she was interested in, but she was still the subtly-insulting girl she had been in junior high, so I just started saying no to all that, and she lost interest in the idea of me being her personal servant, and moved on.
Some years later, I heard from someone, I don’t remember who, that she had converted to Mormonism. Don’t know if that’s still true or not, but I think of her sometimes now with Romney running for president.
These days, I’m not concerned with wondering if anyone considers me their best friend. God’s given me some warm, loving people that speak into my life, and I try to be encouragers to them, also. I’m not consumed with “But am I their best friend?” I just see friendship as a blessing, in whatever form it takes.
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I’m not reading all of your stuff right now, Random, because you’re becoming very repetitive and you don’t really engage. But, I do skim them. And, I noticed this comment: ” Christians choose to be Christians. Christians claim to be uniform in belief.”
This is highly inaccurate on both counts.
Reformed Christians (of which I am NOT one) do not believe that they chose to be Christians, or that anyone, for that matter, chooses to be a Christian. They believe God chose them And, in fact, all Christians believe a version of this (i.e. that God chose us), although some give us the power of veto.
And, I have never heard Christians EVER claim to be uniform in belief. We claim that there IS a correct Christian way to believe, and that none of us has it perfectly. We believe this correct belief is fully contained in the Bible, but that none of us interpret the Bible perfectly. We claim that where we fail, it is OUR fault, and not Christianity, Jesus, or the Bible. We claim that there IS a standard, but that we fall short. We claim that we cannot always tell what is true Christianity, but that we can most definitely tell what is NOT true Christianity.
Where on Earth you got the idea that we all claim to be “uniform in belief” I haven’t the foggiest. That is obviously and demonstrably not true.
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My comment, ADT, was simply that you are not going to believe if you require God to stand before you and present Himself as there. We believe in the atoms and things because we see the results of them being there. We believe in God because He Is. We believe because we see our need for Him. We believe because we see His creation. We believe because we have experienced the fruit of the Spirit. We believe because we have decided to believe His Word. We believe for a lot of reasons, none of them because God has come to stand in front of us and show us Himself.
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“Dang, that was fun.” LOL
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And neither, Random, are we willing to go along with your unseen (non-empirical!) premise. We reject the “faith-based” idea that humanity started in ignorance, is becoming increasingly more enlightened, and is better off dismissing Christian-informed ways of thinking (with its reliance on the light of both natural and special revelation). We reject that we’re quite capable on our own, thank you very much, of creating a better society with our new and improved “Enlightenment”- informed ways of thinking.
Some people who once thought more like us have been convinced to your way of thinking. Others (such as myself and many others here) who once thought as you do, have been convinced of the contrary. And no doubt this process will continue of people “switching sides”. But we, as Christians, are content to be faithful to our God as best we’re know how (even though that we often fail) and to trust in Him for the outcome. It may get worse before it gets better. (God knows we deserve no better.) But we trust in a holy, merciful, gracious, loving, omnipotent, omniscient, just and sovereign God who has made certain promises.
Perhaps you’ll respond by repeating your modernist narrative as if we’ll finally “see it” if you say it enough, but repeating it over and over will no more convince us than repeating our narrative will convince you. You believe your eyes are opened and ours are closed. We believe the contrary.
I enjoy the interaction with you here. I’m not trying to drive you away, and I have no desire to see you leave. But I consider your worldview naive, and culpably so.
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Christians are not uniform in beliefs except for certain foundational beliefs are generally accepted by most such as the Apostle’s Creed, etc. I do not know about all denominations, but the ones I have been associated with have accepted these basic tenets of the faith. Perhaps that was what Random was thinking about?
For myself, I do not find it appropriate to engage in a contest of any sort for winning souls for Christ. I appreciate the fact that He may choose to use me in some way to help someone see Him in His fullness and all He means to people. But the saving is His part. We are only told to tell. What happens after a person hears is up to Him and the person involved.
Recently during a prayer time with some other ladies I felt led to pray thank You to God for the fact that He is invisible to us. Because He is invisible we can not say He was here or there because He is everywhere. He is greater than we can imagine and His invisible quality adds to His magnificience and ability to work behind the scenes. There will be a time to see Jesus face to face, but that time has not come yet. Some people are in for a delightful surprise when that time comes and other people will be surprised to death. We are all on our way to somewhere for eternity.
My pastor had a wonderful sermon about considerations for those who are dating. I am so thankful to know some pastors are willing to preach the better way rather than just go along with cultural standards.
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I was reading this morning about how He will have some from every tribe and tongue and nation. That tells us a lot. When people question how a tribe in the middle of the Amazon can know Him and it just isn’t fair, I am reminded that He knows His children wherever they may be and creation speaks of Him.
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JaniceG,
I’m not sure if the first part of your post is based on my post to Random or whether it’s a more general comment, but assuming that you’re talking to me, I certainly agree that there are legitimately disputable matters among orthodox Christians (just as there are disputable matters among secularists). But my references to a uniform “we” or “us” is on the shared foundational assumptions of the Christian faith and my reference to a uniform plural “you” (referring to Random) are to the shared foundational assumptions of secularism.
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Ree, my comment was based on this comment by Tammy:
“And, I have never heard Christians EVER claim to be uniform in belief.”
I have never heard them claim to be uniform in belief either, but at the same time, someone who is looking at us as a whole, and not being as knowledgable as those who are practicing Christians, could come to that conclusion based on what they read about the faith or what they may have seen practiced the few times they have visited a church. I was just trying to think how Random could have gotten that idea and giving him the benefit of the doubt, in other words, saying how he might intelligently come to that conclusion.
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Something for Sunday:
Go to YouTube
Play video
Matt Redman – Ten Thousand Reasons (10,000 Reasons) (Bless the Lord), New Album – 10,000 reasons, Year: 2011 Bless the Lord, O my soul O my soul Worship His holy name Sing like never before O my…
00:05:43
Added on 11/25/11
2,192,936 views
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Somehow the link is not working out. Anyway, it is a song new to me that was really good. I got it on an e-mail. Maybe someone else, if interested, can find a way to post it.
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Honey Crisp apples are here! They’re GREAT!
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The world, the universe, just is. Three weeks of my being away will be good for you and for me. I make mistakes. Of course, Christians are not all uniform. You argue that my Christian friends who accept homosexual marriage are Christans, but you do not agree with them.
There are basically (as far as I can see) two tactics Christians use to convince non-Christians to believe.
1. Pascal’s Wager. How do I know there is no God? Maybe there is. Maybe he will send me to Hell if I don’t “gamble” on believing in him? Of course, I repeat myself. You repeat this over and over. Shall I explain again why it is illogical? You probably can do it by yourself.
2. Heads We Win, Tails You Lose.
A friend is in a terrible automobile accident, but “miraculously” survives. It is the Hand of God saving the friend for His purposes. God still has use for this person. Or the person is very ill from a terrible disease, but survives. It is God who wants her to stay on earth for a while.
A friend dies in a terrible automobile accident. It was time. God took him back to Heaven. A friend dies of a terrible disease. God took her back home.
Do you have any other reasons to believe besides those 2?
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Is religion going to last? I don’t know. It’s been around for a long time. It meets deep human needs. Perhaps a 1000 years from now people will still be babbling about Jesus (who has mysteriously not returned yet).
Perhaps humans will finally say, “I get it. We are on our own in a world that follows the laws of science. Nothing tells us what to do. Perhaps a 1000 years from now Christianity will be an obscure reference in a history course. “They believed that?” a few scholars will wonder incredulously.
Perhaps 1000 years from now there will be no human beings left.
None of us will know.
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Another reason to believe: Love; the love that God gives is over and above what is available in human relationships. God is pure love. Even if heaven and hell did not exist, knowing of God’s unfailing love in the here and now is worth belief in Him. Before Jesus came into my life I felt an emptiness that I have not known again since He came into my life. God’s love does not negate the love people have for their spouses or others. Instead, God’s love enables people to have a greater depth of love for others than they had before because they are given His supernatural power to love as He loves, forgive as He forgives, and to bless as He blesses.
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Janice, honey crisp apples !!!!! Yep, I bought some a couple weeks ago, best apples EVER. 🙂 🙂
I’m really sleepy this afternoon so plan to just take a nap. I woke up around 4 or 4:30 a.m. after some weird dreams, then I heard some gunshots in the distance. Then I realized I had a headache (no surprise) so I had to get up to take something for that.
By the time I decided to try to pick up another hour of sleep before I had to get up for church, about 10 Spanish-speaking members of a city work crew had gathered right across the street from my house to (finally) take down a long-dead tree. Loud noise ensued with power saws and a wood chipper (this was around 7 a.m., too bad for anyone trying to sleep in on a Sunday).
The pepper tree used to be beautiful, it stood at the curb with an open space and canyon behind it, its branches heaving with hanging green leaves most of the year.
Then they had to spray it with something to kill of a swarm of wasps or something, it also looked like part of it had been scorched. It never recovered and wound up sporting tall, bent, bare branches that looked very appropriate with a backdrop of a harvest moon near Halloween every year. 🙂
Now it’s all quite gone, except for a stump.
Good morning at church, though I felt a little tired.
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That’s well stated, JaniceG. I’m sure it upsets people here when I point out how throughout much of Christian history people who called themselves Christians killed and tortured each other. Just in the news today there was a shooting in Milwaukee. Probably nothing to do with religion, but details are not in yet. The Pople just named some new saints:
“It’s so nice to see God showing all the flavors of the world,” marveled Gene Caldwell, a Native American member of the Menominee reservation in Neopit, Wisconsin, who attended with his wife, Linda. “The Native Americans are enthralled” to have Kateri canonized, he said.
The canonization coincided with a Vatican meeting of the world’s bishops on trying to revive Christianity in places where it’s fallen by the wayside.
Several of the new saints were missionaries, making clear the pope hopes their example — even though they lived hundreds of years ago — will be relevant today as the Catholic Church tries to hold on to its faithful. It’s a tough task as the Vatican faces competition from evangelical churches in Africa and Latin America, increasing secularization in the West and disenchantment due to the clerical sex abuse scandal in Europe and beyond..
Coyote Blue was talking about the Romney-Graham family wooing:
Influential pastor Billy Graham is signaling to evangelical Christians that they shouldn’t hesitate to vote for Mitt Romney because of his Mormon religion, further cementing Romney’s strong standing with the key Republican voting bloc.
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association this week removed Mormonism from its list of religious cults, the Charlotte Observer reports. Mormons consider themselves Christians, though not all of their beliefs align with mainstream Christian doctrine.
The association dropped the label after Romney visited Graham and his son Franklin Graham, who now runs the organization, last week. In his six decades of ministry, Billy Graham has served as a spiritual adviser to several presidents, though he’s never formally endorsed a presidential candidate.
Ken Barun, chief of staff for the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, told the Observer in a statement, “We removed the (cult) information from the website because we do not wish to participate in a theological debate about something that has become politicized during this campaign.”
I did a quick web search on atheist charities. There were quite a few items, including:
Can Atheists Be Charitable?
It’s often said that there are no atheist charities. This stems from a common misconception that atheists are not giving and care nothing for their fellow man. The truth is that atheists have just as much empathy as anyone else. As many atheists see it, there’s no one to help our fellow human beings except ourselves.
In fact, there are many atheist charities and charities founded by atheists. Some of them avoid using the word atheist to avoid having the stigma attached to it affecting the operation of their charity. Others cautiously use a related term, humanist, in the charity’s name. Fortunately, there has been more dialogue going on and it has become somewhat less acceptable to bash anything and everything associated with atheism so a few brave groups have used the word atheist in the names of their charities.
If you’d like to learn more about some of these atheist and humanist charities, read on.
We are mammals with big brains. We are often good to each other and we are often bad to each other. If you think I am repetitive and tiresome, (1) Go read every word of your Bible (a most concise and never tiresome book) and (2) please don’t repeat the tiresome refrain “what does the word “good” mean and why is anyone good?”
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The branches were heavy, not heaving. But you never know, I suppose. I’m not a tree. Maybe there was some heaving going on from time to time.
It also used to attract unusual birds.
I’ll miss it, even in the form of only its dead framework that I (used to) see out my bedroom and living room front windows. Maybe they’ll plant a new tree there.
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Church was good today. The sermon was on Jesus the highest of the high priests and how uniquely qualified he was to serve as the sacrifice for all of our sins.
Next Saturday the priest’s daughter is getting married. It will be a small wedding so today they held a reception for the church members. Afterwards paul and I went and sat on the pier overlooking the bay and talked for a while. I am tired and may just have to take a nap.
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I will try to post the video/song again:
http://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=matt+redman+10000+reasons+on+youtube&tnr=21&vid=&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts3.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3Dv.4988416263651382%26pid%3D15.1&tit=10%2C000+Reasons+%28Bless+the+Lord%29+-+Matt+Redman+%28Worship+with+lyrics%29
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I offered a challenge contest to occupy you during my trip. I offered trivial prizes (assuming I live and don’t forget and I am not lying). At least one person was interested. I will contribute two $5 prizes to churches, representing the winners.
1) Write the best argument to convince me to be a believer.
2) Write the most credible comment I might offer if I became a Christian believer. I can’t think of the very funny comment poster who use to write Christian satire at wmb. He had dogs and perhaps a farm
Drill! That’s the screen name I was trying to remember. [Not quite all the way into dementia yet, but almost ready for “Memory Care.”) Drill has never come over to Wandering Views. No wonder you have been putting up with me! You need to be Drilled. Get Drill to win the contests and get $10 for his favorite church!
OK. My granddaughter (who still doesn’t no that her “real name” is Random Granddaughter) and my daughter just called. Even as I speak our Christian neighbor called. I am going to practice picking up messages from our phone.
I feel myself fading even as I type. Will they let us back into the USA when we leave Halifax and Yarmouth? Will we become the couple without a country?
I am out of here.
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Drill has posted on here.
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Random at 5:01
Random: I claim the prize..
1. Verse to convince you.
a. Gospel of John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life, and he who believes not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
And like unto it:
I John 5:12 “He that has the Son has life, he who has not to Son has not life”.
2. What you should say if converted:
“Praise God, my sins are gone. They’re underneath the blood on the Cross of Calvary,
as far removed as darkness is from dawn.
In the sea of God’s forgetfulness, that’s good enough for me.
Praise God, my sins are gone.”
Send the money to Mumsee.
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“A distinction should be made between people in groups because of accidents of birth (such as race) and people in groups because of choices and ideology. ”
So you are okay with stereotypes of Gays, liberals and atheists?
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This is so worth watching!
Inspiring story about Dad with Down Syndrome baby.
http://youtu.be/Q4foXehDmWs
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Janice: Wow, so powerful. Thanks for sharing.
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Steve (RN/MP/ADT):
I hope you don’t mind my addressing you as Steve. There have been so many nicknames that I don’t know which one to use any more. I don’t even remember what ADT stands for.
Drill has been on Wandering Views, though not very often. I read a headline some time back saying “NASA to Send Drill to Mars”, so I think he must be very busy getting ready to go.
There are many more reasons for being a Christian than Pascal’s wager and “We win, you lose.” Here are a few highlights of my own reasons. There’s a lot more I could say about each of them, but I’ll never finish this if I try.
1. I don’t buy naturalistic explanations of how things got to be the way they are, especially in living creatures. There are too many hurdles to prevent an evolutionary process from turning “primordial soup” into our wonderfully complex physiology. I think it takes a lot more “faith” to believe in an evolutionary explanation for our world than to believe in a creator. I think we had to have been created purposefully.
2. The Bible has demonstrated itself to be credible as a historical record. Many events and places described in the Bible have been authenticated by archeological discoveries.
3. Jesus of Nazareth was a real person. Documentation of his life is not limited to the Gospel writers.
4. The details of his life as recorded in the Gospels are not refuted by any other contemporary sources. The Gospels are at least as thorough and consistent a historical record as what we have of other ancient events we consider “historical”.
5. Jesus’ disciples went around saying that he had risen from the dead. Why would they do this if it were not true? Especially when they were tortured and killed for doing so? How could a small band, mostly of peasants, become such a movement with such opposition?
6. If Jesus had not risen from the dead, all the authorities had to do was to produce the body to prove otherwise. But they could not do so. They circulated the story that his disciples had stolen the body. Again, why would they do that? So they could create a false religion that had no benefit for them and led to suffering and destruction for them?
There’s more but I’m out of time. Maybe I’ll have a chance to write more later. You’ve probably heard all this before, but I wanted to give a fair answer to your question about whether we had any reasons for faith beyond the two you mentioned.
One can argue a lot of things about hard-to-interpret passages of Scripture, hypocrisy and other bad behavior from the Church, political ramfications of Christian faith, but all of that is peripheral. What it comes down to is: Who was Jesus? Was he who he said he was? What are you going to do about it?
Not sure when you’re leaving on your trip, but I hope you have a great time and come back with good stories.
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well said, little brother.
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100!
Oh, wait. Nevermind………
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Pretty much what Kevin said.
I remember coming to faith during a time where there were all kinds of very public shenanigans in the headlines about so-called professing “Christians” that made me cringe.
It finally came down to realizing that I had to look to Jesus and the accounts provided in the Scriptures, not to anyone who “claimed” to follow him, no matter how outwardly faithfully or not, for the understanding & confirmation of my growing faith.
It’s about Him. Alone.
It’s not about us.
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People say all kinds of things about Jesus, They always have and always will.
But one of the most powerful queries in Scripture, posed by Jesus himself, was: (BUT) “Who do YOU say that I am?”
I kept coming back to that, I just couldn’t shake it.
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Kevin- You have gained wisdom with age.
mumsee at 1:14 pm said:
I was reading this morning about how He will have some from every tribe and tongue and nation. That tells us a lot. When people question how a tribe in the middle of the Amazon can know Him and it just isn’t fair, I am reminded that He knows His children wherever they may be and creation speaks of Him.
That reminds me of a story in a biography I read years ago about a pagan man in the South Pacific. He one decided he believed in the wrong God, but didn’t know which one was real. A Catholic priest visited him, but he decided the priest was wrong. A Mormon visited him, but he did not believe the Mormon knew God. A few from other religions visited him, but he knew they were all wrong. Then an Evangelical Christian brought him the gospel, and he saw the true light. I’ll have to look for the book and get the whole story soon and post it on my blog. When I do, I’ll post a link here.
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Thanks, big brother and big sister. You have helped. Peter, I’d love to see that story when you find it.
Two friends of mine, Bill and Dave, were good friends with each other in high school before I knew either of them. Both were very scientifically inclined and atheists. Dave graduated from high school first and went off to Caltech.
To Bill’s complete dismay, Dave returned from a break in college – gasp! – a Christian.
Dave and Bill had long late-night discussions about all this. Bill said he thought that being a Christian was like moving out of the driver’s seat while your car is in motion and turning the wheel over to a complete stranger who isn’t even there.
Bill’s life was pretty well together. He was a successful high school senior heading toward college at UC Davis. He was not depressed, addicted, from a dysfunctional family, or otherwise needing a “crutch” to lean on. But the more he argued with Dave, the more there arose inside him the conviction that he was fighting against what was absolutely true, that God was real, and that as a fallen imperfect human he needed a saviour. He became a Christian, and I later worked with him for a missions research agency, and shared a house with him and a few other guys.
I had prayed a child’s sinner’s prayer, but in high school it did not seem very relevant to me. I wasn’t involved in any church or other Christian group. I had a bookshelf in my room with fiction on one side and non-fiction on the other side, and I put my Bible in the middle because I wasn’t sure which side it belonged on.
When I started college at Caltech, I was surprised to find people there like Dave who were not only Christians, but who had a living faith that was relevant each day. I thought, “Here are people committed to rational study of the universe, and they believe God made it all and has an interest in them personally.”
I came to understand in those years that science and faith address different questions. In science God has given us the capacity to study and figure out this amazing creation, and we can learn how things work and exercise our own creativity. In faith we learn more about the “why” questions, the purpose for which he made us, how we started and where we are heading.
Interacting with students and mentors in science and engineering about matters of faith helped me integrate my childhood faith into what I had always thought of as “the real world”, and I renewed my Christian commitment.
Those people were just pointers or signposts, though. Ultimately I had to come to grips with the question of whether or not God was real, whether or not Jesus was who he said he was, regardless of what family, church, peers, or scientists said.
I love how Donna put it: “It’s about him. Alone. It’s not about us.”
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Who are you calling big? Is that a weight comment?
Anyway, it is amazing the ways God works. And His draw. I am glad I know Him and look forward to knowing Him better.
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Ahem, of course I meant older and wiser brother and older and wiser sister!
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I thought so.
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time to get one hundred
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will it work or am I typing too fast?
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tee hee
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hmmm…I knew someone wouldn’t be able to resist taking it to 100…just didn’t know who that someone would be…
🙂
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oh…you knew…
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