Good morning.
What’s on your mind?
Quote of the Day
“What’s this business?”
Howard Ralston
I know you’re scratching your head going “Huh?
Howard was my Father-in-law. Whenever something was going on that he wanted some type of clarification on, be it politics, sports, life, or kids acting up, this was his line. It always made me smile. I will miss Howard.
Wandering Views 
Good morning Allen. Still praying for you to make that difference for at least one.
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It’s Friday. You know what that means?
Among other things, it means that I’m married to an 81 year old woman!
She’s just as sweet as ever.
And the prettiest one in Adult IV.
But she’s getting bossy in her old age.
“Be sure to eat something green.”
“Did you take those pills?”
“Don’t forget to take that aspirin!”
“Don’t go down on that bank when I’m not here.”
“You aren’t wearing sunglasses”.
Always something. She says she needs to keep me because I put gas in her car and open jars for her. But I’ve shown her a secret abut opening jars; so she won’t need me so much.
I’m also going to vote if I can get around to it.
But for now, we’re off to the Y if I can get ol’ slowpoke going.
😆
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Happy Birthday Elvera! I have discovered the joys of a man who will put gas in my truck.
AJ, you need to write down all the things your father in law used to say. Most of the ones my dad used to say are publishable here but he did have one that used to drive me crazy:
Learn from this. Let it make you a stronger, better person. I used to ask him when I was going to be strong enough and good enough.
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Happy birthday to Elvera! She’s a wise woman.
I haven’t put gas in my vehicle myself in over 25 years. Hubby either does it or I go to full serve (same price as self serve, so why do it yourself?)
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We’re having our first small group meeting of the year tonight at our house. We have a new couple joining us so Tim and I will no longer be the ‘young couple’. Looking forward to it! It’s sort of hard to believe that we’re meeting at our house since we’re so far away from town, but it is now the middle of our small group’s area. Yay! No more driving at night when it’s 40 below!
The only downfall to this that I see is the need to keep my house a little cleaner – I work Wed., Thurs., and Friday and usually catch up on housework on the weekend.
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My Hubby is not that good about putting gas in the car but he is a good about protecting me from spiders and snakes. Between him, the Kid, the dog and the two cats. I am also safe from robbers, mice, birds, lizards, milk jug rings and meter readers.
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I was in a women’s Bible study one day not long after my husband retired from the Navy when a woman commented she didn’t know how she was going to manage the 400 mile drive to LA because she had never put gas in her car and she knew she would have to refill.
I went slack jawed in surprise. Then the woman next to her said the same, as did the woman beside her.
Most of the women in the room, who were in their thirties and forties, said the same thing. I bumbled through leading the lesson and went home to tell this incredulous story to my family. My son said, “why would Dad put gas in your car?He never drives it.”
My husband, also puzzled, asked, “would you like me to put gas in your car?
“I hardly know.” The concept was utterly foreign.
My Navy wife pals howled when I relayed the question and asked their opinion.
I’m astounded and so very touched when my husband shocks me by voluntarily filling the car with gas.
I’ve since come to understand that acts of service are my love language. As I type this right now, I’m crying because a big chunk of the desolation I felt ad a young Navy wife with small children and a husband out to sea just became understandable. Everything was mine to do with no one to fill that love language tank.
Huh.
Thanks, Paul.
Appreciate what you’ve got, ladies.
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I am surprised that women under fifty do not pump their own gas. Elvera grew up in a day when guys came out and put gas in the car, checked the oil and cleaned the windshield. She has pumped gas, but the pumps are more confusing now because they usually want credit cards, you have to choose a bunch of things like “credit” or “debit”, then enter your zipcode, etc. The Sam’s pump takes almost as long to setup as to pump the gas.
As fast as computers are today, I don’t understand why the computers at gas pumps and ATM’s take so long to think.
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I’ve said before, the only wise saying I remember from my father was,
“A fool has to learn everything the hard way.”
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Some people don’t pump their own gas? Wow. Who knew? 😉 Astounding.
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Michelle, if it helps put things into perspective, my mother was the Navy wife left at home with two young children AND she did not drive. My brother had diabetes, too, from age two. It was very hard. God alone knows how we got through it. We had to travel far on a city bus to get to the doctor at the closest military base or else we did not see the doctor unless we could find someone available to take us. We did not have any relatives that lived nearby. It was just tough. And I really missed my father.
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Good Morning, Y’all!
Feeling better, think I might be shaking this crud…thanks for the prayers.
Hopefully I will be on my game for our big ministry at church this weekend.
If any are interested in what I’m always rattling on about during October you can go to judgementjourney.com…
Have a terrific day!
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When I first read the quote of the day, “What’s this business?”, my first thought was Monkey.
It is so nice to have little memories of things like that from those who have gone on to be with the Lord. My dad loved having a garden, and he would sometimes plant zuchinni squash, only he would get it mixed up and call them “ucazinis” and we still laugh about that.
I have to pump my own gas. It would be nice to have it done for me. Sometimes if I go on a short trip with my brother and I drive, he will pump the gas for me.
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Happy Birthday, Elvera! Y’alls marriage is a beautiful thing. Congratulations on doing it well!
I’ve been reading, Grace, by Max Lucado. I loved the following passage and thought I’d share it with y’all. In it, he’s writing about when Jesus washed the disciples’ feet. And how he leaves no one out even though he knows they will soon betray him, in one way or another. He writes,
“If he washes the feet of his Judas, you will have to wash the feet of yours. Your betrayer. That ne’er-do-well, that good-for-nothing villain. Jesus’ Judas walked away with thirty pieces of silver. Your Judas walked away with your virginity, security, spouse, job, childhood, retirement, investments.
You expect me to wash his feet and let him go?
Most people don’t want to. They use the villain’s photo as a dart target. Their Vesuvius blows up every now and again, sending hate airborne, polluting and stinking the world. Most people keep a pot of anger on low boil.
But you aren’t “most people.” Grace has happened to you. Look at your feet. They are wet, grace soaked. Your toes and arches and heels have felt the cool basin of God’s grace. Jesus has washed the grimiest parts of your life. He didn’t bypass you and carry the basin toward someone else. If grace were a wheat field, he’s bequeathed you the state of Kansas. Can’t you share your grace with others?
“Since I, the Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you ought to wash each other’s feet. I have given you an example to follow. Do as I have done to you” (John 13:14-15 NLT).
To accept grace is to accept the vow to give it.
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Last night 6 Arrows asked what is your favorite play, symphony or piece of art?
I posted this around 12:30 p.m. last night and thought I would share it again for anyone interested who did not see last night’s late posting.
“For anyone who is up late, Obama is on Letterman. It is not intentional that I know that. My husband left the television on after he left the room, and I need to go turn it off. I have found new motivation!
Okay! The television is off. I didn’t want to have nightmares this evening.
6 Arrows asked about a favorite play. I really enjoyed The Foreigner. My husband and I originally saw it at the Alliance Theater which is in downtown Atlanta. Many years later he found out it was playing in Franklin, NC so we went up there to see it and spent the night. It was still a really special play. At one point we had season tickets to the Alliance. I loved seeing Dicken’s Christmas Carol. We also have a nearby college, Ogelthorpe, which has the Shakespeare Theater. We have seen a number of those which are always good.
As for the symphony, I am only familiar with the ASO (Atlanta Symphony Orchestra) and they are very good. We had season tickets for several years. My husband’s family did that when he was young so that was a family thing for us to do, too. It was helpful for our son to attend since he was in a band in which he played clarinet.
We have also had membership in the High Museum of Art. I really enjoyed the presentation of works by Norman Rockwell, Van Gogh, and Andrew Wyeth. Also, we saw works by an American Impressionist that I really loved. I had never known of him before. I found a website with some of his works and I will see if it will post here. His name is John Henry Twachtman. It will only do a link for anyone who is interested.
http://www.phillipscollection.org/research/american_art/artwork/Twachtman-Winter.htm
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Happy birthday, Elvera!
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As to the pumping gas question, when my husband and I go anywhere together, it’s in his car and he drives, and of course he also pumps the gas. I’m happy that he pumps the gas; it’s not my favorite thing, so I’m happy to let him. My car gets used a lot less than his, but every few weeks I have to fill it up. It would be pointless for him to make a special trip to town to fill it up. But pretty much now I only drive to the store (if I’m going by myself, and quite often we go together), so it doesn’t need it very often.
Michelle, interesting that you discovered that your love language is acts of service. I read that book something like fifteen years ago, and I discovered as I read it that my father’s love language had been acts of service–and since mine is not, I hadn’t “read” it as love! But there it was, many years after his death I realized how he loved people. That his making sure the bicycle tires stayed inflated, fixing the toilet immediately if it needed it, and so forth weren’t just fatherly “duties” but ways to love his family!
Before we married, I tried and tried to figure out my husband’s love language. He didn’t seem to focus specifically on any one of them; he had loved me using all of them. I finally asked him which one(s) he’d identify. He asked what they were, and I told him. His response was that he didn’t know how you could separate them; all of them show love. Oh. So he really is that multi-dimensional when showing love!
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JaniceG,
We have seen the ASO twice at Callaway Gardens under the stars and they have been exceptional both times.
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Happy Birthday Elvera. May you be the First Lady in January.
Chas (and others), since they are political more than not, the Friday Funnies are linked from the politics thread.
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Happy Birthday, Elvera!
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Here is a funny thing I saw while driving to work: The city is redoing an intersection, so the sidewalk is torn up for replacing. On one side I saw a sign that said: Sidewalk closed, use other side.” The same sign was across the street. So where are pedestrians to go?
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Now they are testing the three for Fragile X syndrome. I tell you, these experts are as baffled as anybody on these three. But we continue to see huge strides in them all and are delighted to have them in our family.
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Michelle,
When my National Guard BIL switched from the Apache to the Blackhawk copter, his old CO asked him to switch back because the Apaches were about to be deployed and he knew my BIL’s marriage could handle a deployment. The CO was expecting five divorces from the nine month deployment. When asked why this was he said his wife is very independent and the five were very dependent. He stuck with the Blackhawk, but when I saw my BIL’s old CO (He is my brother’s BIL) I asked if he ended up with five divorces. He said, “No, six.”
Ladies, learn to fill your own tank!
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I filled my own tank for the many years in the military. I filled my own tank for the many years with the Olympics. Now, I let him fill it. It is a huge blessing to me and to him. Why mess with success?
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When my stepmother had an empty tank, she would take my dad’s car to work.
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I never go anywhere so I don’t actually need a car. I have enough to keep me busy. Well, other than my camping truck.
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We are a one-car family. I try to notice when the tank’s getting low so I can fill it before my wife has to. But I sometimes miss it.
For a long time she almost always filled it because there is a huge difference between us in when we think it needs to be refilled. I’ll start thinking about it when it hits 1/4 full. To her that’s dangerously low. So I’ve worked out that filling it for her before it gets to 1/4 is a love language.
Love languages is an interesting idea. I think giving gifts was my dad’s (though he would always protest that he didn’t need anything and said we shouldn’t give him presents). Me, I don’t care about stuff, it just becomes clutter, so it used to drive me crazy when Dad would send me big boxes full of goodies he though I would find useful. But I understand now that this was his way of saying how much he cared for me.
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Chas, I checked with my wife on our itinerary in DC last week. Though I never made it to the DC Air & Space Museum, my wife and son were there Thursday afternoon, and they did get some shakes or sundaes or something in the food court, so you may very well have seen them. But since I am 40 years older than my son and shaped quite differently from my wife, I don’t think you would have mistaken either of them for me.
🙂
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And a big Happy Birthday to Elvera!
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My husband did all the driving to work and pumping gas for all those years while I was homeschooling. I guess it is okay for him to be retired at least from that. He will pump it if I ask like one night when it was fairly late and I did not want to do it then. If I asked he would do it all the time. It is not such a big deal to pump the gas, but I can remember the feeling when I first had to pump it and I did not really know how. Then it seemed to be a big deal.
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Happy Birthday to Elvera! Today is also the birthday of my brother (49) and a former piano student of mine (22).
I rarely have to put gas in the car since my husband and son usually take care of that, as they are out and about nearly every day, and I’m out (without them) only about 6 times a month. Hubby tries to keep adequate levels of fuel in the tank when he knows I’m going to be heading out so that I don’t have to fill up. A great blessing. 🙂
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The Space Shuttle Endeavor! And music too!!
http://framework.latimes.com/2012/10/15/time-lapse-video-space-shuttle-endeavours-trek-across-l-a/
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The food court at the Air & Space Museum is the largest MacDonalds I have ever seen. They have a balcony. And you can get other things.
I used to work with a woman who said she never paid attention to fuel until the light came on.
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Saw a really awesome thing last week while driving to Annapolis on Rt. 97. They were repairing the right sholder, digging a deep hole the width of the sholder and about two car-lengths long and refilling in with cement. Since they were actively working on it, they had the right lane blocked off with cones to protect the workmen. As a result, traffic was somewhat backed up. A guy in a new BMW didn’t want to wait in traffic with the rest of us so decided to drive on the sholder. He drove that nice new BMW right into a hole full of wet cement. I didn’t actually see it happen but drove by a minute or two after.
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Bob Buckles: loved that video! (And the music, too, of course!)
Chas: “I used to work with a woman who said she never paid attention to fuel until the light came on.” And if the fuel light malfunctions…
Anonymous (Linda, I’m guessing?): “He drove that nice new BMW right into a hole full of wet cement.” In the words of a little boy I babysat years ago, “That you get.” 😉
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This is Elvera. Thanks for all the well wishes for my birthday. It has been a good day. Charlie also registers how many more miles I can drive on the gas I have which is nice. I received several cards which I enjoy. I enjoy my birthday but not rushing to have another soon. It will come on schedule. Thanks again.
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I put Elvera on the link and let her enter the above comment.
The guy didn’t see the wet cement he was driving into? Not even I am that dumb.
I told you that I told Elvera the secret of opening jars.
Those jars are vacuum packed. The air pressure at sea level is 32#/sq. in. That means that a large lid is going to have several pounds of pressure on it. If you can’t find a guy who is strong enough to move the lid, punch a hole in it to relieve the pressure.
It isn’t me who tells Elvera how many miles the car has. It’s an option on the panel.
Re: 6 Arrows comment.
If the light on the panel doesn’t work, and she runs out of gas, she calls AAA. She’s that kind of woman. She is 2 years older than Chuck, which means she was a young woman when I knew her. She drove one of those Toyota “Z” cars.
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Adios, an overly dependent wife would be a detriment to a man, and to both of them if he is going to be deployed. (Why would a dependent woman marry a military man?!) But an independent woman is hardly the material excellent wives are made of.
I’d say a woman should be able to fill her own gas tank in case she needs to, but it’s definitely an act of love if a husband can do it for her. One of the beauties of marriage to me is that I can concentrate more on more “feminine” tasks and allow my husband to concentrate more on more “masculine” ones. Obviously which tasks are perceived as more masculine or feminine will vary somewhat with the couple, but he’s definitely happy to give me the cooking, and I’m more than happy to give him taking out the trash and mowing. And I do more of some tasks (like dishes) but he will help out periodically. Last night while supper was in the oven, I picked up a broom and he picked up the dustpan.
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Wow, Chas, that is a hint I can use. Unless I forget it next time I am fighting a jar and don’t have anybody around older than eleven.
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1/4 Sails said in part, a day or two ago, “Random, the Constitution says nothing of a wall of separation between church and state. It merely prohibits the establishment of religion by any one church. The founders for the most part understood that a democratic republic could best be sustained by religious people interested in civil law that uphols moral principles including in the fields of sexual and marriage morality.
“Modern secularists in fact have become a powerful quasi religious faction interested in establishing secularism as a state religion. They wish to exclude religious people from serious involvement in state affairs. Look at how viciously in California the homosexual secularists dealt with those who favored a constitutional proposition that marriage is between a man and a woman.
“You and your atheistic secular friends are enamored of the Manichaean Roger Williams who in a simple-minded manner viewed the church as pure and the world including the state as evil. Most people in New England at the time viewed Williams and his followers as naive ideologues, just as most Christians in our time so regard extreme secularists.”
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2/4 I asked how do people of different beliefs live together as well as we can? In Roger William’s time, some Catholics and Protestants killed each other. Some Protestants killed other Protestants. Roger Williams opposed such religious ways of settling conflicts based on different interpretations of “what God wants.”
Later on, some secularists persecuted and killed some religious believers. By and large, today, secularists and religious believers live in peace. Although some people in this web site disagree with the tolerance of some of my religious friends (toward homosexuals, for example), very few (if any) people from their group or from your group are trying to kill each other as far as I can see. In fact, as far as I can see very few people at Traveling Views are even interested in this discussion. So far today, the main discussion seems to be about women putting gas in their vehicles, a very mundane discussion.
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3/4 I don’t think of myself as a “troll.” Troll can refer to a nasty supernatural being from Scandinavian mythology, or it can refer to a person who stirs up trouble on an Internet web site. I suppose I can understand why some people here (perhaps you in particular) might want to describe me this way. Perhaps the best way to get rid of an “Internet Troll” is to not communicate with me. As long as you respond, and Ree responds and Tammy and Janice and a couple of other people respond, I am likely to respond.
The mundane empirical world exists. We all share it. We have to work together to share it, manage it, and make decisions. I don’t find your arguments for making decisions based on your religious beliefs convincing. I don’t consider your arguments about homosexuals convincing.
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4/4 I asked how do people of different beliefs live together as well as we can? In Roger William’s time, some Catholics and Protestants killed each other. Some Protestants killed other Protestants. Roger Williams opposed such religious ways of settling conflict based on different interpretations of “what God wants.”
Later on, some secularists persecuted and killed some religious believers. By and large, today, secularists and religious believers live in peace. Although some people in this web site disagree with the tolerance of some of my religious friends (toward homosexuals, for example), very few (if any) people from their group or from your group are trying to kill each other as far as I can see. In fact, as far as I can see very few people at Traveling Views are even interested in this discussion. So far today, the main discussion seems to be about women putting gas in their vehicles, a very mundane discussion.
I don’t think of myself as a “troll.” Troll can refer to a nasty supernatural being from Scandinavian mythology, or it can refer to a person who stirs up trouble on an Internet web site. I suppose I can understand why some people here (perhaps you in particular) might want to describe me this way. Perhaps the best way to get rid of an “Internet Troll” is to not communicate with me. As long as you respond, and Ree responds and Tammy and Janice and a couple of other people respond, I am likely to respond.
The mundane empirical world exists. We all share it. We have to work together to share it, manage it, and make decisions. I don’t find your arguments for making decisions based on your religious beliefs convincing. I don’t consider your arguments about homosexuals convincing.
We all try to understand the world. We all wonder why we have to suffer and die. We all wonder why life is often so unjust and so unfair.
I believe (and a few other people I know are similar) that the world just is and we just have to understand how it works the best we can and alleviate suffering as best we can. Over time, I suspect the secular point of view will prevail, but the process will be a gentle and slow one.
I don’t know you. I don’t know if you are a man or woman. I don’t know where you live. I don’t know how old you are. I don’t know what church you belong to. You know that I am 68 years old, that I have a lesbian daughter (who is a fine woman in my view). I am reluctant to infer much about you (with so little information), but I am guessing that you have experienced or are experiencing suffering and/or grief in your life and you now have doubt about your religious belief, and my comments are stirring these feelings (which are not being much assuaged by your religious belief) up and perhaps you want to believe that my going away will bring you some comfort. I doubt it. Everybody else (if anyone else is reading these exchanges) perhaps you can bring some comfort and relief to Sails. I’m not the person to help him or her out.
Sails, although I don’t agree with you, I wish you well and I hope you find some comfort if you need it.
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All five love languages are valid for all people (generally, anyway). It’s just that most people have one or two that stand out as special to them. So, in one sense, Cheryl’s husband is right … you can’t really separate them. But, in another, they are very useful, because — particularly if we have a strong preference or two — we may not recognize love from someone important to us. He or she might be doing acts of service all the time for us, and we think we’re not loved. Or he or she might like to buy little things for us, and we might just see that as “wasteful.”
And, of course, it works the other way too. We may be showing our love for someone with our whole hearts, but it may be mostly failing to be recognized by our love’s object, because we are showing them love in a way they may not easily recognize.
I think the biggest thing we can learn from the idea of the 5 love languages is to recognize that different people need to give and receive love in different ways. While we often default to the way that speaks best to US, it is important to look for the way(s) that speak best to the object of our love.
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I really like two things: Acts of Service and Quality Time (particularly working WITH me on a project).
I do like Words of Affirmation probably third, and then physical touch and receiving gifts tie for last. But, just because they are last, doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate them. I just have others are stronger preferences. 🙂
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Just to clarify, I am perfectly capable of filling my own tank (including my love tank-two half people don’t make a whole) and have done so for years. My father might have given me $20 here and there for gas but as for getting it from the storage tank to the car tank–that was all me. My first husband didn’t fill the tank for me. I did that. He also didn’t keep track of when my oil needed changing or my tires rotated and balanced. He had a little notebook where he kept track of his scheduled maintenance.
I have the oil changed and tires rotated and balanced ever 5K miles. I pump my own gas before it gets to a 1/4 tank.
I am merely thankful and enjoying a man who will do it for me. I actually teared up the first time he did it for me and asked if he needed to take the truck in to be serviced!
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My dad’s parents were interesting people. Although they mostly engaged in traditional male/female roles (Grandma did the cooking, Grandpa did the field work on the farm, etc.), Grandpa was the one who did the dishes (because Grandma’s hands were severely sensitive to dish water), and Grandma could often be found tinkering with stuff on the workbench in their garage. She was always retrieving old, discarded items and repairing them.
I lived next door, and wish now that I had learned how to repair things. Neither of my parents did much of that, and I’m quite handicapped as an adult now when it comes to fixing things.
My husband, though, can repair just about anything. I should just work side by side with him and learn to do much more than I presently can. Something new to aim for… 😉
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Kim, I don’t think anyone on here doubted you could fill a gas tank 😉
Cheryl, I have no idea why a very dependent woman would marry a military man. The whole thing was rather odd to me, but to the CO it seemed a fact of life. He and his wife have a good balance. I think you are right about what is masculine and feminine varying from couple to couple. My husband is a cleaner and I love to work in the yard, especially the mowing and trimming.
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Random: You use the imperative “have to” a few different times in your comments. What about the mundane empirical world informs us that we “have to” do anything, aside from obeying the laws of chemistry, physics, and so forth?
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Hmm… been a few minutes and still don’t see my post being posted, so I’ll try again…
Random, how do we (you) know what we “have to” do from observing the mundane empirical world? You use that imperative–“have to”–a few times in your comments. Explain?
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A totally dependent woman might marry a military guy because he was not a military guy when they married. She might marry a military guy because a military guy is a good guy not realizing he is sometimes an absence guy. People get married without thinking things through.
The military has things in place to encourage the military member to see that the spouse is taken care of in his or her absence but it does not necessarily happen.
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that would be absent
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So, Random wants to stir the waters and bring up our intolerance. Frankly, I feel intolerance is a misnomer for Christians. I feel everyone here is tolerant of gays, lesbians and whatever. True Christians should be trying to see people as Jesus sees them. Jesus looks at the person’s potential. If the person isn’t saved then He looks toward saving them. If they are saved then He looks toward sanctifying them. He is always looking to see us grow more closely into His image. He constantly observes us being less than what His best for us would be no matter how good we may be or think that we are. It seems to me that the intolerant ones are those who demand that we take on their view and disregard our faith in Jesus and obedience to God. They are intolerant of the definition of marriage and insist that they are the only ones who have a right to make it be what they want it to be. To me that is intolerant. And what about that word, “hate?” To me, to “hate” does not mean to want the best for someone. Hate is a word that traditionally has been used with a lot of passion and would indicate a person would like to see the demise of another or to see their life blotted out.
Random, I think your daughter and her partner from what you have said about them are probably people with good hearts who want to see people receive the healthcare they need. I also think that they don’t know Jesus and don’t have a clue about the life He would give to them if they chose to follow Him. Is it possible they could have an even better life, abundant life that those who follow Jesus are given? It is not an outward appearance. It is something that gets us through suffering in a different manner than the world knows. I won’t belabor the point. Jesus is who he says he is in the Bible. My life, now and eternally, depends on that fact.
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Hey, AJ- I forgot to rub in the Yankees losing it in four straight. Oh, well. Try the mantra used around here by fans of a certain Windy City National League team: Maybe next year.
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Janice, thank you for your comment. I am not sure I am “stirring the waters.” I disagree with the claims people make here. As I’ve said, we share the mundane world. I see people I know in person and comments from people at this web site making assertions about the world and wanting to make decisions about how we live, based on claims of being in touch with a world that does not exist and a being that does not exist.
In the past, Christians killed other Christians. As far as I can see this is fact. In present times, such violence is much less common. If one person strikes another person and says, “I am not doing this out of hate; I am doing it out of love,” such an action does not make sense to me and does not communicate any kind of “love” I can comprehend.
I don’t look forward to dying, but “eternal life,” for many reasons makes no sense to me, and ultimately does not really sound attractive. I hate to keep picking on Sails, who sounds like an unhappy person, but he or she does not sound like a happy person and does not address me in a way that makes me think especially positively of Christians.
I see no reason why adult, consenting homosexuals should not be allowed to marry. On the island where I live there are 30 or 40 Christian churches. Some support homosexual marriage. Some do not. Instead of attacking each other and killing each other, they mostly just keep separate. That’s a big improvement. There perhaps 20 or 30 people in my tiny secular group. They are the politest, most diffident and respectful people you might ever meet. Many belonged to various churches and the experience left them unhappy. I am irritated and offended by claims that we (and others like us) are trying to take over and force things upon you.
Roger Williams did not particularly preach to the “savages” of his time, and he apparently regarded them as no more savage than many of the Christians he knew, who from time to time killed each other. He apparently said (paraphrase in modern English) that he wanted to live such a wonderful and admirable life that the Indians would want to become Christians.
I know nothing about Sails, but none of his communication to me convinces me that he is happy with his belief or that I should want to be a Christian. As I said, I think politely, you might want to communicate with Sails about his evident distress, and perhaps remonstrate with him about his style of communication with non-believers.
Jesus is who he says he is in the Bible. My life, now and eternally, depends on that fact.. Evidently you believe that. I don’t, I don’t think the Bible is the “Word of God”; I don’t think humans are born of virgins. I don’t think Jesus rose from the dead; I don’t think any of us are going to have eternal life. I am not the only person who feels this way. Even if you absolutely believe this, I don’t think your belief provides you with any special right to decide how everyone lives. The world is full of people with many different beliefs. How to get along with each other and share this world is a very difficult task.
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Quick question: are there no full serve gas stations in the states? My station always cleans the windshield and asks if I want the oil and wiper fluid checked. They also go out of their way to wish me a good day as I leave. 🙂
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Not addressed to Janice, but perhaps a late Alternative Question of the Day, do any or all of you really believe in Hell? In one breath you talk about Jesus. For example (as it’s still fresh in my mind: Jesus looks at the person’s potential. If the person isn’t saved then He looks toward saving them. If they are saved then He looks toward sanctifying them. He is always looking to see us grow more closely into His image. He constantly observes us being less than what His best for us would be no matter how good we may be or think that we are. It seems to me that the intolerant ones are those who demand that we take on their view and disregard our faith in Jesus and obedience to God.
It’s kind of “psychobabble to use the word “subtext,” but to me it applies. A subtext or an implication of the language I just quoted, is a kind of implied threat. If we disregard “our faith in Jesus and obedience to God,” then we are going to suffer eternal pain and punishment in Hell. So that’s why “God,” made us, so we can suffer eternal pain in Hell? If you don’t like words such as “hate,” the idea of Hell sure doesn’t sound very loving to me. Perhaps it is not all that surprising that not everyone experiences your attitude toward non-Christians as loving, no matter how loving you think it is.
If (as I believe), religion is a creation of human beings, then coming up with the idea of Hell is not a very loving idea. Is that why you cling so rigidly and firmly to the idea it is all true?
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Yes, hell is real…and heaven is real, too. We did not dream it up. God loves us so much that He made a way so we do not have to suffer in eternal hell. We love you and others so much that we want to make you aware of God’s plan of escape from an eternity in hell. It is God’s desire to see all people, including you, saved. Many of us here each had our time of doubting the reality of God, but we have had our own drawing to God by the Holy Spirit. I tend to think you have not had that irresistible drawing to Him yet. If you have and you have chosen deliberately to not respond favorably to His invitation He will probably give you some more chances. I don’t want it to sound like a threat, but none of us know when it will be our time to physically leave this world and go to our eternal destination. There is only one way that God made to have eternal life and it is through faith in Jesus. He is basically our vehicle to heaven and He does not expect us to pump gas to get there.
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Random, perhaps you didn’t see my question earlier, but now I’m even more perplexed after your comments to Janice. You wrote this to her:
[W]e share the mundane world. I see people I know in person and comments from people at this web site making assertions about the world and wanting to make decisions about how we live, based on claims of being in touch with a world that does not exist and a being that does not exist.
But in your earlier posts you were talking about how we “have to” do this and do that. How do we know whos “have tos” we should be listening to? What is it in the mundane empirical world that elevates one person’s “have to” above another’s?
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Amazingly, it is a fair deal, open to all. No excuses.
I just put the six year old to bed. He normally goes to bed with zero fuss anymore. He was not in bed for five seconds when he started yelling and then crying and tears rolling down his cheeks. I went back to his room to ask what was up. He said he had a bad dream. I told him he had to go to sleep first before he could have a bad dream He said okay and laid back down to go to sleep. Silly boy. And he never wakes up with bad dreams.
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Kare2012 – we do have, here and there, a few “full-serve” stations. But you pay for that. The gas prices there are literally through the roof.
I take my Jeep in for maintenance and what is a full-serve gas station. I’ll get my oil changed and have everything else done there. But I’ll never buy their gas!
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I was pondering the gas-pumping thing as I drove to work this morning and was amused as I remembered — when I first started to drive — how we all went to stations where some guy came running out, pumped your gas for you, washed your windows … Long, long time ago.
You can still get your windshields washed, however. There’s usually a homeless person hanging out at many of our self-serve gas stations now, offering to do that for you for a buck or 2.
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I just saw that Rick Santorum will be on Letterman tonight. That is a surprise since Obama was on last night ‘Tis the season..
Donna, did you ever hear anything about the dog that lost its snout saving the young girls in the Philippines from being hit by a motorcycle? I think the dog was sent to CA for some reconstruction or something. I’m hoping all will go well with that little hero.
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6th Arrow and I had a nice little conversation tonight as we made apple crisp to take to Grandpa & Grandma’s tomorrow.
Arrow: “Who’s the oldest in the family, you or Dad?”
Me: “Dad is.”
A: “So that means Dad is the smartest.”
M: “Well, being older doesn’t always mean being smarter.” (I’m so nice.)
A: (Ponders that a bit.) “I think you’re the smartest.”
M: (Hee hee hee.) “People are smart in different ways. You’re only five years old and you already know a lot of things. And Dad’s really smart with fixing cars.”
A: “Yeah!! I like to help him fix them. I like to wrench them!” 😀
Ah, life with a 5-year-old! Can’t beat it! 🙂
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Yes, hell is real…and heaven is real, too. We did not dream it up. God loves us so much that He made a way so we do not have to suffer in eternal hell..
No. Hell is not real. Heaven is not real. God “loves” us so much . . .
Let’s see. God created humans, creatures He “loves” so much that he threatens us with Hell. As I recall, all of this came about because one mythical first man and one mythical first woman disobeyed a command and all humans ever since are facing unimaginable horror. This may make sense to you. It makes no sense to me.
It’s a very convenient myth though for people who like to acquire power and control over people. Again, the origins of the world and of Judaism and of Christianity are shrouded in mystery, but we have seen religions arise in historical time, and the picture we see is not pretty. Even more amazing to me is that a practitioner of a dubious imitation religion is now running for President and people are taking him seriously.
You did not dream it up, but it was dreamed up and you go along with it.
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Sweet! Such is life with all those arrows. 🙂
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My last comment was meant for 6 Arrows and not just a Random thought. LOL
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LOL!
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Janice, how’s it going with your son? I saw your request on the prayer thread the other day. I’ve been praying.
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Random, you appear to be in attack mode (or mood) this evening. God is not threatening you and neither is anyone else here. If you do not believe any of what we say why could you possibly be threatened by something that is nonexistent in your thinking? You choose to come here. It’s not like we come after you with threats. You seemed like you wanted to be in conversation with someone this evening so I was just talking about what we talk about here. The people who are offended by talk of God are those who do not want to accept His place of authority. Right now you stand as the authority over your life. You seem content with that, but you seem to want to be an authority over other lives and make them think as you do. Sorry, that power is not given to you. I know Who my God is. He is my authority. It is late and time to get out of this circular conversation. I hope you have a good weekend.
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Thanks, 6 Arrows for the prayers. He seems to be less stressed now. I think the short fall break gave him some needed distance from all the pressure of what he has to get done. And the prayers do help!
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Nobody “has to” do anything. Sometimes there are consequences if you don’t.
When I come to a red light while driving, I usually stop because
a) I know the consequences of “running” a red light may be fatal or at least injurious.
b) I know that even if there were no cars visibly coming, I might get a ticket.
When younger, once or twice while driving late at night with no cross traffic visible I probably drove through red lights, but generally I did not and do not do that kind of risky action. I presume you do not utter a prayer and drive through a red light. It’s called paying attention to the empirical world. If you want to call that a “have to,” go ahead.
Just to amuse my morbid mind, I just watched a national geographic video on YouTube about a terrible train crash in 1986 on the train route we are about to take next week. The train crew on a freight train did not do things they were supposed to do and crashed into an oncoming passenger train, killing a number of people.
I watched with interest the end of the video where it shows how Canadian Rail revised their equipment and crew policies so their trains are safer than they were in 1986. I don’t know that anyone “has to” do this, but for people in touch with the real empirical world it makes sense.
Solarpancake I am sorry I missed your other question. I am an animal with a big brain. Like most animals, I try to stay alive. Humans are a mixture of thought and emotion, of selfishness and altruism. All this is very compatible with evolutionary theory, without making up stories about an imaginary being. We don’t “have” to do anything. Most of us do things because the attract us (like eating when we are hungry) or avoid doing things because we don’t want to feel pain.
Again, as I mentioned earlier, consider the “payoff” of religious belief. Some people appoint themselves as spokespeople for the imaginary being called God. They can then tell other people what to do. In many religions (thought not all), men dominate and tell women what to do. Though this seems to be changing gradually over time. If you think about it, it’s quite remarkable how long it took for women to be allowed to vote in our “democratic” society. [Waiting for some woman to step in and tell me that it was a mistake to give women the vote, or tell tell me that she always votes as her husband instructs her to do.]
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I haven’t read a lot about the dog that lost its snout, only that he was going to have surgery at UC Davis, one of our top veterinary schools. But the latest news is that the dog has cancer and will need to undergo chemotherapy first.
I’ll admit, I have a hard time reading some of these stories. 😦
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As we get ready to leave on our trip, my wife frets about the three “elderly” hens. At first there were no vets available who treated chickens in our area, but now at least one does. Of course, usually not much he can do but put it painlessly to sleep, but as a person who thinks empathy is the main reason for altruism, I suspect that our “umbrella” of empathy is getting wider and wider. Whether it also means that human beings will be kinder and kinder and more and more caring about each other (rather than just sadder and more willing to engage in “heroic” veterinary efforts), I am not sure.
From a web page about chickens:
“VETERINARY CARE: People who keep chickens should provide them with the same level of responsible care as a companion cat or dog. Every effort should be made to locate and retain a good veterinarian. An increasing number of vets do birds as well as cats and dogs.”
http://www.upc-online.org/chickens/propercare.htm
Probably I should not let my wife read that page. I am going to meet my sister and her daughter and son-in-law (coming up to meet us from Vermont). Two grandchildren are coming but they are not bringing the goat, bunny, guinea pig and cat. The animals are taking over. And I used to worry about overpopulation.
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On the other hand, watch out for the coyotes:
COLUMBUS , Ohio – Even in the largest American cities, a historically maligned beast is thriving, despite scientists’ belief that these mammals intently avoid urban human populations.
This animal’s amazing ability to thrive in metropolitan areas has greatly surprised scientists, says Stanley Gehrt, an assistant professor of environmental and natural resources at Ohio State University. Gehrt is in the sixth year of a multi-year study of coyote behavior in urban Chicago.
Since the study began, Gehrt and his colleagues have found that urban coyote populations are much larger than expected; that they live longer than their rural cousins in these environments; and that they are more active at nighttime than coyotes living in rural areas.
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Random: All you’re talking about is survival. Looking at the “mundane empirical world,” we see a spectrum of behaviors, both selfish and altruistic. Certainly in the animal kingdom, we see both; notably, we see savage violence between, and even within, species. You seem to prefer altruism. Do you do so on *moral* grounds? Do you believe your altruism to be of a greater moral good than of a Christian’s alleged intolerance? If so, why? You’ve only stated your own mere preference for altruism, but why should others share that preference? If they should share that preference on moral grounds, then what do you point to beyond yourself to make that moral claim? I’m sure you wouldn’t expect us to be morally compelled to prefer chocolate ice cream merely because it’s your preference. And if you don’t believe altruism is a greater moral good, then I don’t know why you seem to be claiming higher moral ground than intolerant (non-altruistic, or non-empathetic) Christians. If it’s all preference–including a desire to survive–then why make moral judgments?
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Solar: All there is is survival. Nobody has a “right to life.” Eventually we all die. I don’t prefer altruism on “moral” grounds. I prefer altruism because 1) evolution put a capacity for altruism into most human genes (including mine); 2) most cultures develop the potential/capacity for altruism because a culture with little altruism fares less well in competition with other cultures (cultural evolution). I have the empathy/altruism gene. I am a product of a fairly empathy/altruistic culture. There is no such thing as a “moral ground”or “greater moral good.”
“Why should others share that preference?” No particular reason. Probably one of the reasons various cultures created religions is because getting other people to cooperate and obey is much more effective with claims of a great father in the sky than with “I think you should do this.” Priests and kings are natural allies. They both want control and power. One group creates and delivers myths; the other group organizes people with swords, guns etc. When they work together, they are a dynamite team (sometimes literally).
The world just is. We survive until we don’t. It’s weird, but here we are. So far, unlike he, she, or it who must not be named, you have addressed me politely. You don’t “have” to. I appreciate it. I try to address you politely. I don’t “have” to. It’s part of my genome; it’s part of my culture; I don’t want to get kicked off the site (though it’s no big deal). Perhaps it will help keep me out of Hell, but I doubt it. Although it’s not a “have to,” I think it would be more honorable to prefer to go to Hell.
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Fair enough, Random. In that case, my ethic is equally as good/bad as yours. Neither of us has any grounds for suggesting one or the other ought to believe or live a certain way, including whether we ought to refrain from genocide or intolerance of gays. You’ve entirely undercut your whole theme about how bad it is to be intolerant, etc. What a strange way to think.
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