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100! Our Daily Thread 10-6-12

That’s right folks! This is post 1oo!

That’s the reason things appear in a different order. I thought it was fitting that this thread gets the honors.

Thanks folks. This doesn’t work without you. It’s been my pleasure to know you all, and I look forward to our continued discussions.

Allen

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

108 thoughts on “100! Our Daily Thread 10-6-12”

  4. Good Saturday Morning! It is a day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it!

    QoD: For those who are married, where did you go on your honeymoon? And for those not married, where would you choose to go on a honeymoon?

    My husband and I went for a few days to Hilton Head Island on the coast of SC. We married during tax season so we had a short initial honeymoon. Later in the year we went to see my former apartment mate and her husband out in Montana and while there we spent some beautiful time at Yellowstone National Park.

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  6. Good morning! It’s beautiful here this morning in Houston, Texas. We’re having a few of my cousins over for dinner tonight. Hubby just put a brisket on the smoker and I’m getting ready to make dessert.

    QoD: We went to Turks & Caicos for a glorious week on our honeymoon. We stayed in a lavish condominium, complete with floor to ceiling windows with views of the ocean. It was a corner unit and had a huge balcony that wrapped around two sides. It was, by far, the nicest place I’ve ever stayed. We rented a moped and drove all over the island, found a secluded beach and had a picnic. The only negative I remember about the week was the cost of groceries. We ate out a lot, but had a full kitchen, so we bought things for breakfast and some lunches. A box of cereal averaged about $8.00. Otherwise, it was truly a trip of a lifetime. I felt like a queen!

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  8. I have ever been practical. For the first honeymoon we were supposed to go to Lake Tahoe. At the last minute things changed and we went to New Orleans for a week. A week is WAY too long to spend in NOLA. That was my last chance of a trip with George. I went more places but mostly alone.
    This time I am treating it like my birth-month
    Getting married tomorrow
    Reception NEXT Sunday
    Small trip to Georgia the next weekend

    Silas Gabriel will be here the end of November (that is Mr. P’s grandson) so there will be a trip to Maryland to see him. If I am that close to DC I want to take Baby Girl.
    In the Spring/Summer there may be a trip to Cuba and Jamaica.

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  9. Jerry got to the nursing home about midnight. The airline lost his luggage. He crawled in the bed and held Toni and told her he was there and he loved her. Regina has told Toni that it is OK for her to go that her Daddy, Granny, and Jim (my daddy) are waiting on her. That’s a hard thing for a mother to do. Regina has been getting in the bed holding Toni. She told me this is the last time she will get to hold her.
    They have Toni on oxygen, her body is shutting down. The nursing home has been so sweet, bringing Regina food and coffee and taking care of her as well as Toni. The CNA that was taking care of Toni last night had a baby a year ago so even she is teary eyed for Regina.
    I really do think my Baby Girl has a nurturing spirit. She was with me last night. Hugged her GiGi and handled everything very well. I gave her th eoption of staying home or going with me. She wanted to go and hug her GiGi and tell her she loved her.

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  10. Though I was almost 27 at the time, I was really naive about travel. (I don’t recall staying at a motel before, though I stayed in a nice hotel in Prestwick, Scotland.) And I was working part time for $.80/hr. My dad gave me $100 for a wedding present. I tell you that to say this.
    I goofed big time on our honeymoon. We planned to go to the mountains, and we did. We went to Highlands and got a cottage for $6.00. Next day, we drove through the Smokeys to Gatlinburg, which was to be our destination. There, the guy wanted to charge $20.00/night. I couldn’t take that, so after going on a skylift, we drove to Knoxville.
    Knoxville is not a good honeymoon town.
    We should have stayed in Highlands. We sometimes visit there from Hendersonville.
    But she has stayed with me for 55 years.
    Many were rough, but in the end, it was very good.
    I wish for you all the good memories we carry to the end, regardless of what comes next.

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  11. We went camping in Virginia for our honeymoon. We took Jon’s dog, since she was not in good health and he was planning to have her put to sleep the following weekend, so those couple of days were the last weekend to spend with her.

    Later in the year, we went on what Jon considered our “real” honeymoon to the Bahamas, using an all-expenses-paid trip for two he had won in the company’s United Way drive the previous year, before he had met me. (He had told his housemate from grad school that he would take him on the trip, unless he happened to meet a girl and get married in the meantime. But he was joking about that possibility, since at the time he had a negative view of women from a previous broken engagement and had no plans for dating, much less getting married.)

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  12. As was the tradition at Harvey Mudd College, clever engineers took a piece out of the engine of our getaway car and my new husband had to figure it out and fix it before we could leave.

    In his beautiful suit, he found the missing part and replaced it, but we were late to the airport. We missed the plane on which we were to sit in our luxurious first class tickets (the only time I’ve ever had first class tickets), but we caught economy seats in the back of the next plane (the real story of my life) to San Francisco.

    But we were late getting to the hotel where my father had arranged and paid for us to have the bridal suite on the Top of the Mark.

    I did not realize at the time what a big deal that was, so I just shrugged when the guy behind the counter told us it had been rented out, and he gave us a small room without a view in the back.

    (I’m drumming my fingers, now, 35 years later. Hey! That wasn’t right!)

    It didn’t matter . . .

    Two days later we retrieved the aforementioned car from my sister-in-law and drove up to redwood country to stay at the Benbow Inn in Garberville (Bob Buckles will know that hotel). We finished up the next weekend at a church family retreat (where the speaker talked about the challenges of military life) and then drove across country to his first duty station, Nuclear Power School, in Orlando, Florida. We drove through Arizona and stayed a night in New Orleans on the way . . .

    All that honeymooning seemed to have worked–our anniversary is Monday. 🙂

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  13. Good morning all. 100 posts is a very good start. Congratulations, Allen, you have put a lot of work into this blog and we deeply appreciate your efforts.

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  14. We had our honeymoon in a cabin in the Smokies on the weekend with peak fall color. (My sister even talked with someone who had been there the week before and who told her, “Colors will be at their peak in a week,” not knowing I was about to go there. My sister delightedly passed on the info to me, and it did seem to be true.)

    My husband asked me what I would like in terms of a honeymoon location, and I said a cabin in a woodsy sort of area, the Smokies or something of the sort. He started researching cabins and found a great one. He asked if I wanted to see the link or be surprised, and I wanted to see the pictures, so he sent the link.

    The funny thing, looking back, is how early in our relationship he booked the honeymoon cabin. We had a tentative date in mind (it pretty much needed to be well before Thanksgiving and cold weather or else wait till spring or summer this year, and people’s schedules, including his daughters’ schools, worked for that weekend), and he told me he had looked at cabins and the first one he liked was booked that week. I told him fall color would be absolutely beautiful then, based on my own research, and we couldn’t wait too long to book. Then I asked what happens if we book tentatively and then change the date, how much would that cost? He hadn’t thought to check, but he did, and found out it would be only $40, so he booked his “second choice” before anyone else could. And then I decided that if we had “tentatively” booked a honeymoon suite, we’d better tentatively book a wedding too, so I contacted my pastor, and asked if that Friday and Saturday (rehearsal and rehearsal dinner, wedding and reception) would fit on his calendar and the church’s, if we decided to stick with that date.

    (He also mentioned it to his mom. Weeks later he asked her if she had pencilled it in, and she said, “It’s not in pencil; it’s in pen. You’re not getting out of this one!” That didn’t mean she thought he would try, but just that “we” had her full support. I hadn’t even met her yet at that point, but I loved her when I heard that comeback!)

    The date stuck; it worked for nearly everyone. (Two of my family had business commitments, but in a family as large as mine and as widespread, getting everyone there seemed impossible, and it was most important that it worked for our schedules, which it did.) The cabin was wonderful, the husband romantic and sweet and thoughtful, and the fall colors breathtaking. But one of my flower girls had been sick, and we had all interacted with her the night before the wedding when no one knew yet that she was sick, and we both ended up mid-week with colds that led to bronchitis, so we didn’t get to explore the Smokies as much as we had planned. (We did get a carriage ride in Cades Cove.) We did more last month when we went back, this time to a time share, a gift from a couple on his side of the family.

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  15. Benbow Inn in Garberville, yes, I have driven past it many times! It looks like a hotel in Germany or Switzerland.

    We went up US 101 to San Francisco. Then we went to a church camp owned by a cousin of my mother. We visited another cousin of my mother at their farm near Lemoore, CA. (A naval Air Station was built there on their farm.)

    I think we only paid for one night at a motel. Chas, you are not the only cheapskate!

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  16. Honeymoon? How am I supposed to remember that far back? I think we went to CDA and to Canada for a couple of days. We stayed at the Motel 6.

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  18. I mentioned we went to Hilton Head for our honeymoon. That happened on the second day after our wedding. With our wedding being late in the afternoon in a downtown chapel, we decided to have a dinner at a nice restaurant for the small group we had invited. After that for our wedding night we went to the Peachtree Plaza on Peachtree St. in downtown Atlanta. Unfortunately it was prom night and the place was overrun by the young people on their big night. Some of those people had gotten into our room and used it before we arrived so needless to say we had to go upstairs to the big revolving restaurant with a view and wait while the room got prepared for us. Lesson to pass on for those making wedding night arrangements, check to see what else is going on at the hotel before you book!

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  20. Kim, are you taking the midnight train to Georgia? 🙂

    I’m so sorry to hear about Toni 😦 😦 You all must be on an emotional roller coaster this weekend with everything going on.

    For their honeymoon, my roommate and her husband took a tour of some of the national parks which sounded like great fun to me. But he was a dyed-in-the-wool Sierra Clubber, my friend and roommate not so much. She was and still is a city girl, through and through.

    She got through it, but became weary with the scenery & hiking early on. 😉 I could tell it wasn’t necessarily her idea of a stellar honeymoon plan. But, hey, the pictures were sure nice! 🙂

    I’m doing battle with my cable company today. I failed to renew my contract two weeks ago and so now they’ve bumped my monthly bill up by $23!!

    So, while I know it’s belated, I’m emailing them trying to see if they’ll just put me back on the old contract to renew again (albeit 2 weeks after the fact).

    So far they’re holding firm. I’m holding firm. My latest email was telling them I’m going to be shopping around for another service. And I really mean that. I’m quite sure I can get probably more for cheaper elsewhere at this point.

    Ball is in their court.

    But to be honest, I’ve been really happy with them through the years and don’t want to go through the upheaval of a switch. Still, I only have 1 lousy TV in the house, a basic cable TV package (no premium movie channels or other “extras” like DVR), very basic/bare-bones landline phone service & (probably most worth it to me) their high-speed internet.

    But the new price their charging me — now $194 a month (!) — seems way, way too high for what I’m getting. Don’t you think??

    Arrrg.

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  21. Haha — I still remember Cheryl emailing me about that cabin for 2 and thinking, Huh?

    I was so confused. You’re gonna go on a vacation (alone??) with this guy? 😉 Cheryl???

    It never occurred to me they were already “planning” their honeymoon before they were even engaged.

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  26. A comment on 100. I just wanted to say thanks AJ for giving all of us displaced persons a place to roost and continue our on-line chatter and debate. I wondered how many of us would truly migrate over here and have been pleasantly surprised to see that many of us have (and even some voices from the past!).

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  27. The world is only 100 posts old. Worldmagblog is a myth.

    My wife and I went to Carmel by the Sea for our Honeymoon. My aunt, who lived for a while in Pacific Grove (but had not lived there long enough to remember John Steinbeck) told me the top joke of the area, which consists of Monterey, (long dependent on catching and processing fish–thus Steinbeck’s book Cannery Row) Carmel, and Pacific Grove (which was founded by a strict Christian sect which kept the town “dry” (no alcohol) for a long time.

    “The area is best known by the slogans Carmel by the Sea, Pacific Grove by God, and Monterey by the Smell.

    Monterey smelled perfectly nice the last time I was there, and my wife smelled perfectly nice when we went on our honeymoon, and she still smells very nice 46 years later. Marriage tip: marry someone who smells nice. I think it has something to do with pheromones, which sounds kind of “off-color” but just has to do with the fact that we are mammals.

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  29. Hubby and some of the children are off for firewood. Other children are painting out buildings for winter. Others are in bed with a sore throat and congestion, except when they are outside getting fresh air. One more is making pumpkin pies from the pumpkin he grew this past summer. A good day on the prairie.

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  30. Interesting that you would jump to that conclusion, Random, but then, I suppose if one is used to jumping to conclusions and not believing the oral report, it makes sense. I, for one, believe Worldmagblog did exist and has become extinct. Shoved aside in the evolutionary process.

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  32. Kim, I’m so sorry to hear about Toni. I know it’s bittersweet, not just 100% sad. But it is nevertheless a huge loss on this side, and I’m sorry. This truly is a huge weekend for you.

    Love you.
    Cheryl

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  35. Donna, it never occurred to me that anyone would think other than “wow, she’s planning her honeymoon?” 🙂 I guess I didn’t actually say that, but I definitely did mean to imply it.

    We basically were “unofficially” engaged; we were waiting till I met his daughters to make it official, but we were at the place of “We can see a lot of good reasons to marry, but so far no good ones not to,” so we were proceeding. Hubby had already met (and received approval of) my shepherding elder and his wife. (He stayed with them each time he visited Nashville.) He had met my pastor, too, but I think it wasn’t till the next visit that we sat and talked with my pastor for three hours, and my pastor fully approved; he also met the brother who would give me away, and by that time we decided, “OK, this looks good; let’s go ahead and change the ‘pencilled in’ dates to pen.” (For example, I gave him my mother’s/grandmother’s/and possibly great-grandmother’s diamond, which I had inherited, and he had a ring made. At that point it might not have been “official,” but it might as well be!)

    But I do think that booking a honeymoon cabin with “some guy I met on the Internet” rather spooked at least one of my relatives, even though he had also gotten to meet my whole church by that point, and to spend a good number of hours with me and also with my shepherding elder and wife, and I had talked with his pastor (in my own denomination) and received a glowing recommendation. Still, I fully understood their concern; I myself had seen plenty of scary stories connected with Internet dating, and most of my family had not yet met him at that point. I would ahve been concerned myself if it had been one of my relatives or good friends, if I hadn’t met the guy yet and they’re already planning a wedding.

    A year later I can still say marrying him was the best decision of my life. (As a Calvinist I can’t really say that salvation is a “decision” in the way marriage is, lest anyone think I’m putting my husband above Christ; I’m not.)

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  37. Hey ya’ll. happy 100 — wisdom tooth (or rather socket where it used to live is doing well, ty for the well wishes.

    Kim — hang in there, thinking of you

    Donna — threaten to move to another service. We did that with comcast and wound up with a 100 less for the same service we currently have.

    QOD — I’m not 100 percent sure, but it would be coastal Maine in the summer or Ireland or the Greek isles. Would depend greatly on moods.

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  38. I, for one, believe Worldmagblog did exist and has become extinct. Shoved aside in the evolutionary process.

    Quite possibly true. There have been thousands of beliefs over human history. By and large, evolution does not “believe” in genetic engineering, but somehow we got from crawfish to crawling apes. However, religions mix their memes much more freely than fish, birds, and mammals. Way back in time, old Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs “snuck” into Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Hindu ideas crept into Buddhism.

    Things are speeding up. My neighbors, who consider themselves evangelical Christians, have Jews and Muslims attending their services. I think they would probably draw the line, though, if I started talking about believing in dog or some such at one of their services.

    However, I told “my” atheist “flock” that three of my heroes were Roger Williams, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, and Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Williams is an especial favorite. Williams was a absolute Calvinist religious fanatic, I said, after singing his praises.

    “No, he couldn’t have been,” people told me.

    I replied, “As difficult as it is to read his writing today, I have read some of it. He was a genuine religious fanatic. Just way ahead of his time. Go figure.” I replied. Still mystifies me. However, most Christians I know, either do not know about him, or dismiss him as being of little or no importance. Perhaps because he stopped going to church. Perhaps he shunned the other Christians of his time?

    Go figure. Would Roger approve my being here, or would he tell me to stop hanging out with you? I figure, it’s something to do while I wait to expire and go nowhere.

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  39. Jerry got Regina to take an anti-anxiety pill. I fixed her a cup of tea. Later we got her to eat something and drink a glass of wine. She went to bed at 4 with instructions to be awakened at 7. We all decided it will be best if she sleeps all night. She really has been awake since 2 am yesterday.

    I asked Regina to please let Jerry, Douglas, and me do the casket spray. Toni thought the Florida State Seminoles played especially for her so I thought we could do some shasta daisies and mums in burgundy and gold and work some ribbon into it. Jerry told me if I would go pick them out he would pay for them.

    Regina cried and said she had Toni for 53 years. I held her and cried with her and told her the doctor’s told her she wouldn’t have Toni 6 months, then a year, them to 7 then to a teen, then to an adult…she had her 53 years.

    The funeral will probably be on Tuesday. It will be from St. Mark’s Lutheran in Elberta…the same as my dad’s funeral. It will be the same pastor.

    Just please remember her in your prayers. It’s just so hard for a Mama to let her baby go.

    My plans will still go forward tomorrow. Most probably Jerry and Regina will come over tomorrow afternoon and go to dinner with Baby Girl, Mr. P and me.

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  42. Randon, you must understand that Roger Williams was a reasonable,, though not , as you say, a fanatic, Christian. He was among the first American Christians to advocate religious freedom. He loathed atheists and hardly tolerated them. As a fervent atheist, you are rather naive in promoting Williams.

    Essentially, you attempt to make Williams tolerant of secularism and atheism as well as of religion, an egregious mistake. The truth is that Williams would have loathed and fought you, especially your foolish attempt to recruit him for your evil atheistic cause.

    Your not too subtle attempt to promote atheism on this Christian blog is an abomination.

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  44. Sail, I am glad to hear that Williams was a “reasonable” Christian, whatever that means. As far as I can tell, he was a strong Christian in his belief. His writing was not that good (unfortunately), but I suspect he was an articulate, eloquent, and reasonable speaker. He moved from English Court to Puritan settlement to Indian encampment. He spoke his mind strongly (and at times got in some trouble for it), but I suspect if he had really been an unreasonable person, he would have had a musket ball lodged in his heart or a hatchet lodged in his skull. I think he had some diplomatic skills as well.

    Hard to tell, but I suspect that once we got past the language barriers (as he would have quickly, so formidable was his linguistic skills), we would have got along fine.

    He would have cheerfully told me that I was going to end up in Hell, and I would have just as cheerfully told him he was full of turkey droppings. Then we would have laughed and we would have chowed down on some venison and acorns and had a good laugh together about intolerant and insecure people.

    As far as people such as “Sail,” I suspect he would have turned you over to the Wampanoag to do with as they please. Bold italics in the following are placed by me to make points (which I suspect escape you).

    Roger Williams had won the respect of his Colonial English neighbors for his <b<diplomatic skill in keeping the economically and militarily powerful Narragansett on friendly terms with local English settlers. But relations between Plymouth Colony and the Wampanoag deteriorated over the same period. By the 1670s the appropriation of Indian land by the English and a series of hostile incidents between the Wampanoag sachem King Philip (Metacom) and the Plymouth Colony resulted in the devastating conflict known as King Philip’s War.

    Rest (if you have the courage to read it all) at http://www.nps.gov/rowi/historyculture/philipswar.htm.

    It is perhaps a rude and inappropriate twist on an old wisecrack, but in my opinion Sail, I have studied Roger Williams, and you do not understand Roger Williams, and Roger Williams would not have wanted to have anything to do with your kind of Christianity.

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  45. diplomatic skill. I am not diplomatic and getting close to senile, so I messed up my bold tag. Point is: Roger had (widely acclaimed) diplomatic skills. My wife often tells me that I lack such skills, and AJ may be along soon to second the motion.

    However, if you consider yourself as having diplomatic skills (or any other skills) equal to Roger Williams, go ahead and demonstrate them. I dare you! Be more diplomatic than I am!

    Your not too subtle attempt to promote atheism on this Christian blog is an abomination.

    Now, that’s a good start. Kids insulting each other sometimes say, “That sounds so gay.”

    Twisting that locution, I will say the sentence I just quoted by you, addressed to me sounds Just so jihad. Just saying.

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  47. My son, who is studying theology (amongst other things) in college, had to read the mythology that Judaism/Christianity supposedly “borrowed” from. I read some of it too.

    The resemblance? It just isn’t there. For example, in the Babylonian creation myth, the only resemblance to the Biblical creation story is that they both believe it was created. Beyond that, the differences FAR outnumbered (VASTLY outnumber) any supposed similarities.

    In my opinion, such similarities are simply manufactured in the minds of those who wish them to exist.

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  48. I won’t stop when I should. Some Puritans hanged some Quakers. Including a Quaker woman (a mother). When I pointed this out at WMB years ago, someone said, “They didn’t hang very many.” As if that made it OK. I would hate to read into Sail’s comments that it would be OK if they just hanged atheists. You may think you understand Roger better than I. I don’t think Christianity is true. You do. If you are really as strong in your faith (as I presume you claim to be), you would not become so insecure and defensive about some one you claim is engaged in an evil atheistic cause.

    Your not too subtle attempt to promote atheism on this Christian blog is an abomination.

    Roger understood and perhaps you don’t: If God is great and real he is not going to be hurt by a scoffing person such as me. The only people who will be “hurt” are people whose faith is very shaky. Perhaps I was sent by God to test your faith? Perhaps you should be thanking me (not to mention God).

    You are welcome. I am just an instrument of God’s Will.

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  52. Modesty, Your unbelief is due in part to insufficient exposure to Southern culture. Here is a favorite of mine:

    Now, be honest. Aren’t you right now thanking God that you were not born among us.

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  53. Ricky, that’s a nice song and a good performance. Where we are born is what we have to deal with in our lives. I am glad I was not born in Haiti or Darfur, but people born there make the best of their lives. Perhaps you should be glad you were not born near me?

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  57. As you know, Kim, I am not a person who prays. (It would be hypocrisy for me to use such a term.) Secular people do not have a word or term that provides the same empathy and comfort. In my clumsy way, I hope for the best for you and yours.

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  58. Random, “your people” say they are sending positive energy and warm thoughts my way. I value you and your clumsy way of telling me you are thinking of me and mine and hoping we all live happily ever after.

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  59. As you all know my engagement ring belonged to the groom’s mother. As he was talking about that he would wear I went to the closet and pulled out my father’s tie that he wore the last time I saw him in a suit…so in a way my dad will be there. So I guess we have the “something old” covered.

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  60. Blessings Kim & Mr. P!!! You’re probably already at church by now, but you all (see? I can talk southern) were on my mind as soon as I woke up today.

    Happy wedding day.

    Rejoicing with you. 🙂

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  61. So, Ricky, what language was that? I was able to catch a couple of words, but not many. Maybe English borrowed from that language, maybe the language borrowed from English. I don’t think I could learn it.

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  62. A bit of amusement from the Nest. We have illness running through, again. Something picked up at the fair I imagine. Anyway, six year old in glasses has it and I confined him to his room in an effort to contain it. I gave him a new box of tissue and a large paper bag and told him to only use what he needed and then throw it in the bag. I came back to check on him and he said he needed a tissue. I asked where the box was, he produced an empty box and a full bag. I told him he needed to fold each one and put it back in the bag. I came back to check on him and he had done it. That is a lot of tissue and kept him entertained for a couple of hours.

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  63. How I came to World Mag Blog.

    My presence as a “radical agnostic” and now “out” again as a hardcore atheist has caused irritation and criticism both at wmb and now at Traveling Views. Why am I here? some people wonder. Why is he allowed to participate? others wonder.

    Here, as briefly as I can tell it, is how I came to participate in wmb. As best as my possibly failing memory can recall 58 years later, I read the Bible as a child and thought,This was either written by a being called “God,” or it was written by human beings. It seems to have the fingerprints of humans all over it. I had already experienced professionalization and been irritated by it. So when as a school project we were supposed to write about the American forefather we most admired, I chose (even then marching to a different drummer from most of my peers), Roger Williams instead of people such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and similar choices selected by my class mates. I had already been dismayed by realizing that our noble founding as a free country, so eloquently expressed in the Declaration of Independence and so intelligently and presciently crafted in the Constitution also involved building an economy based on slavery of black people and stealing land from the original aboriginal inhabitants (ludicrously labeled “Indians).”

    Roger Williams’ courage impressed me. When I read that he split off from the other Puritans, lived with the Indians who provided refuge, became fluent in their languages, and paid them for the land he used to found Providence, I thought, this is a man (like me, though much more impressive) who marches to a different drummer and practices what he preaches. (Tom Jefferson was a little lacking in that regard.) The final cherry on the cake for me was reading that he didn’t preach to or try to convert his Indian friends to Christianity. What he apparently said was something along the lines of [I’ve never found the exact quote, but I’ve seen references to this conviction on his part] I want to live such a virtuous and admirable life that the Indians will want to become a Christian just be viewing my example.

    I went through most of my life holding these views: atheism and admiration of Roger Williams as a man of courage, respect for others who did not believe as he did, and a man who strove (with considerable success) to practice what he preached.

    In my 30s, I became for a while a high school teacher in Seattle’s semi-ghetto area and then in a suburb of Portland, Oregon, where I helped teach an alternative school program. One day I was chatting with the teacher of the “Senior Issues” classes. (He was an interesting person who had been an electrician, gone back to school and become a psychotherapist, worked in a variety of settings including a hospice, and finally had become a high school teacher. The school district, wary of controversial topics and discussions, felt it safe enough for him to talk to seniors about “life issues” such as sex, death, birth, careers, etc.)

    One day we were chatting about his class. I mentioned that I was an atheist. I’ll call him Bill (as I don’t remember his name). Bill mentioned that he had a different point of view. (Which I never learned.)

    I said something along the lines of, “Many Christians seem to have a rather insipid, ‘Go to church on Sunday, forget about religious belief the rest of the time’ type of belief. I am totally an atheist. If I were a Christian, I would be totally a Christian and try to practice it in every aspect of my life, all the time. [I don’t think I said, “Like Roger Williams,” but he is always the example in my mind.] But I am not a Christian.”

    Years later, poking around on the World Wide Web, I accidentally came upon a World Mag Blog discussion. After I read a few comments, I thought to myself, These people sound like the “True Christians,” I mentioned years ago in that discussion at Tigard High School. I don’t often go to church, but I will find out more about what they believe and about how they behave.

    I started reading. I gradually posted a few comments. I was dismayed by a variety of comments I read. For example, I believe evolution is a much more likely account of how humans appeared on Earth than Genesis. As I had gradually learned to accept homosexuals as odd but normal human beings in every respect of their lives other than their sexuality [long before I discovered my daughter is a lesbian], I was appalled and repelled by the often hostile and condescending attitude toward homosexuals I encountered at World Mag Blog.

    Later, we moved to Whidbey Island. Our neighbors (wonderful people and devout Christians) enticed me into their “Wood Ministry.” I still participate. They are wonderful people (as are the congregation of their church). Their behavior and tolerance is much more attractive to me than much of what I encounter at wmb. I find Traveling Views perhaps edging in that direction, although much less acceptable to me than the local church. They are accepting of homosexuals and they have Jews and at least one Muslim in their congregation. They do many good deeds, and in their mutual support and caring for each other, function almost as a separate government agency on this island, although respectful of separation of church and state. I dislike how they start indoctrinating children in religious belief (they have their own school in their church) at a very early age.

    However, the bottom line is that I don’t believe there is any being such as God. I started a chapter of an loosely affiliated secular group on our island. I am not hostile to religious believers. I just don’t think you know any more about the nature of the universe than I do. I think in terms of morality (ethics), we are very similar. But I prefer to be around (most of the time) people who think as I do. But I am addicted a bit to talking about religion and expressing my opinions.

    I worked for a while on a local project with a man who was (unknown to me) dying of cancer. The project (starting a local credit union) was I think, something to do while I wait to die. I don’t think he was a believer, but we didn’t discuss it. I am not (at the moment) dying, but all human beings are dying from the moment of birth. So both my local secular group, my participation with a local church, and my participation with evangelical Christians on the Internet, are all “things to keep me occupied,” while I wait to die.

    For people, such as Sail, who are irritated by my participation, we will all die sometime. Perhaps you before me; perhaps I before you. I have written my obituary for the local small newspaper with instructions to my survivors to have it published after I am no more. This, I guess, is a version specially crafted for this religious group.

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  65. Well, for give me. I will become senile before I die.

    Correction: I had already experienced proselytizing and been irritated by it.

    My revenge (joking) is to post comments here. I think most of you are strong enough in your faith to survive my posts.

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  66. We just had a lovely Thanksgiving service at church today (Thanksgiving is the second Monday in October here). The pastor had each one of us say something we had to be thankful for. It was wonderful to see each one of the congregation stand and hear them speak from their hearts about their gratitude. Some were brief and some were eloquent, but they were all genuine. I will miss them – they have been such true friends to me.

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  67. Fortunately, it is not relevant to His existence if you don’t believe He exists. Much like the mom of a small child who ceases to exist when she leaves the room, only to reexist when she comes back into sight.

    My dad is also stuck on the evolution issue. He would love to have the faith and actions that come from being Christian, but evolution is his stumbling stone. I have told him that many believers do not believe in recent creation (I do) and that is not to be confused with a sinner in need of a Savior but there you have it.

    He is getting older and still cannot believe, but we pray.

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  68. Roscuro, Your church will miss you too, but they will look forward to receiving letters from you. We received two good reports from missionaries this morning.

    Modesty, Any man who appreciates Loretta Lynn is not beyond redemption.

    Mumsee, You have truly been deprived. I prescribe regular helpings of Tammy Wynette, Jim Reeves, and Loretta Lynn.

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  70. Sister in law and brother in law have just been dropped off at DIA….life, hopefully, will return to normal once again….
    Thinking of you Kim and Mr. P today…I read the earlier post about your loss…praying for all to be comforted as only our Lord can comfort…

    Honeymoon…we eloped…spent the weekend in Brookville Indiana….rafted down the Whitewater River…stayed at the Holiday Inn..went home…he went to his house, I went to mine…the plan was not to tell anyone we had married until he finished his first year of college…plans changed three months later….we had to tell…Jacob was on the way….oops!! 🙂

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  71. I believe in a literal Adam and Eve. However, unlike many others here, I am an Old Earth creationist. I don’t fall squarely into a particular camp, although I tend to like a version of Progressive Creationism as well as a version of the Gap Theory. 😉

    I think that a literal Adam and Eve are quite necessary, and that the Bible and science must agree. I think that people often read things into the Bible that are not requirements (24 hour, consecutive days, for example) or forget the the Bible is not a science text book (and so, while it tells the absolute truth about the beginning, it does not tell ALL the truth about the beginning, because it is only interested in speaking of our Fall, the need for Redemption, and our Rescue — not about every aspect of what went into Creation).

    However, science also has its blind spots, and a priori throws out a lot of explanations not because they fail the test of fact but rather because such explanations don’t fit a secular PHILOSOPHY. For example, if something seems to require a Creator, they’d just rather not think about that, even if the evidence points very strongly to one.

    I figure that if either side could ever let go of their presuppositions long enough to really search for Truth, they’d find it … vindicating science and Christianity. 🙂

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  72. One of the best explanations tying creation as described in the Bible and science I’ve ever seen (and it is the simplest), was that of John Collins.

    Whoever said the 7 days had to be consecutive?

    It’s as simple as that. If God created on each day (24 hours days, no less), and left long periods of time between the creation days, it fits pretty well with a lot of the prevailing science theories, because things seem to appear (then disappear) pretty rapidly (and without much build-up) in the fossil record … exploding in the Cambrian period.

    And, don’t worry about the “creation” of the sun and such on the fourth day. The Hebrew word used there is different, and does not actually mean created from scratch. At that point, the atmosphere began to clear up, and someone (had there been any someones at that point) on the surface would have been able to see them for the first time.) All of creation is explained with the perspective of being on Earth. 🙂

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  76. Congratulations, Kim! But your gravatar now says Kim C. and it seems you are not. 🙂

    I prayed for you during church today, thinking you must be pretty close to your nuptials.

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  77. Well, I see I’m coming up as “cherylandmisten” and not Cheryl, myself. Let’s see if I’m back to just me, as Misten may or may not approve what I say here. (I imagine she would join in the Congrats.)

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  79. Tammy, I think seven days is pretty much necessary, seeing as Genesis not only speaks of each day, but of each “evening” and “morning.” I think nearly every question (every question, probably) on the age of the earth/universe can be settled with two points: (1) One, just as Adam and Eve were created as apparent adults and fruit trees probably were already bearing fruit, so everything in the universe was created with an “appearance of age” (e.g., I don’t see questions such as “why can we see the stars if they are this many light years away?” as being a theological problem; they were created partly to be lights, and thus they were lights from the moment of their creation) and (2) the Flood affected Earth’s geology tremendously, and many features attributed to great age can actually be attributed to the Flood (e.g., two biggies: the Grand Canyon and the burial of millions of animals that became fossils).

    I definitely do not see “old-earth creationists” as outside orthodoxy, but I also see no scientific need for the position once all of Scripture is accepted (including the worldwide Flood).

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  81. kBells, I can’t imagine she wants to hyphenate first husband-second husband (or that second husband wants her to). I just found it funny that I went from Cheryl D. to Cheryl when I got engaged because soon I wasn’t going to be Cheryl D. anymore, and Kim has been “Kim” all along, and now she is Kim C. (just when she isn’t anymore). I’m guessing it’s the same thing as my name coming up as “CherylandMisten” (because “Cheryl” was taken on WordPress, so I had to use something else, but I logged in on this site as just Cheryl).

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  82. Well, we are now officially at four fifteen year olds and one fourteen and one thirteen and one sixteen and a bunch more. Making progress.

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  84. Congrats to Kim and Mr. P.

    I’ve just returned from the Giants/Browns game. It was a lot of fun. Giants win!

    🙂

    But now the Yanks are in rain delay.

    😦

    Even worse, for some reason the spammers went crazy in the last 20 hours. 206 Spam comments.

    😯

    They seem to really wanna sell us shoes and handbags.

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  87. Ooh, new hyphenated Kim w/groom pic has just popped up on FB. She looks gorgeous (of course), pretty in pink. 🙂

    Maybe there’s a short video she can post her later!

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  88. She also commented that it was “the best wedding EVER.”

    So I guess that means she made it through it all with no major stress or mishaps. 😉 You go, Kim.

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  89. I was Kimberley Cotten for as long as I was Kimberley Black . Professionally I am known as Kimberley Cotten so for a while I will be Kimberley Cotten-Hurlburt until I gradually become Kimberley Hurlburt.

    After the minister had us say our vows to each other, Paul stopped him and made promises to my Baby Girl as her stepfather. How could that not melt a mother’s heart?

    Perhaps I can email some photos to AJ to post?

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  91. Congratulations Kim and Mr. P! My prayers are also with your family during this time of loss.

    We just finished a beautiful thanksgiving dinner with our daughter (son couldn’t make it home). Very thankful for all of God’s blessings in our lives.

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  92. Kim, that makes sense! My hubby told me before we were married (at his initiative, not mine), that he knew I already had two books in print and otherwise a somewhat established name, and he was OK with my including my maiden name in my writing name. In general use I’m only using my married name, but including both professionally can indeed help people know “who you are.”

    Many congratulations, and I’m glad the wedding was sweet!

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  96. And, of course, orthodoxy does not depend on it, since the 7 consecutive 24-hour days was preceded by the “Gap Theory” which was proceeded by other theories. Many of the early Church fathers believed in something a little different.

    I think the 7 consecutive 24-hour days came into such strong vogue in the last 50 years or so because Christians felt very attacked and felt that they had to “hold the line” very strongly or risk the proverbial ‘slippery slope.’

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  97. Congratulations, Kim! And, many blessings! May God bless the two of you with many long years together. May you grow old together, and fall more deeply in love each day. May you both serve the Lord and each other. May God bless you with great happiness.

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  99. At the last place I worked when a woman got married she got two set of new business cards. One with single-married hyphened name and the other with the married name. The first set were called transitional cards

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  101. Female reporters often do something similar, using both last names (either hyphenated or not) in their bylines for some time before dropping (if they decide to do so, some kept it at all 3 names) their maiden or former last name altogether.

    My mom always used her maiden name as her middle name — it was before hyphenating became popular, but I found it interesting that she always included her maiden name (or more often just the initial of the maiden name) whenever she signed anything.

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  102. I also am not tied to the “new earth” 7 consecutive (24-hour) day interpretation, although that could have been the case. Nothing is impossible with God.

    But it seems to me that Genesis is written in away that could allow some other ways to interpret the timing of creation.

    I agree, however, that Adam and Eve were historic figures.

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  106. I hope that as hyphenating names becomes more common, more computer programs will be written to allow for it. I found it so frustrating, at the job I had until recently, trying to find people who were in the computer one way in one system (that allowed names to be entered however you wanted), and another way in other systems (one did not allow for hyphens, another not only did not allow for hyphens but had a length restriction so only one of the two names could be used).

    Fortunately the system I support now allows for alternate names to be entered, and it can find someone using any of the names. (And if it’s not an exact match, it will mark it as a potential match.)

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  107. Pauline, I may be wrong, but my own impression is that the hyphenated-name thing was a bit of a fad that mostly blew over. Not that women never use a prior name as sort of a “middle” name, but that changing one’s last name to hyphenation became too tricky and lost steam. (For example, what do you do when you have children? Do they have hyphenated last names? And what if you then have a girl who marries–does she end up with three last names and her own daughters with four?) It seems as though simply keeping one’s maiden name became more acceptable, and those who once would have hypenated now just keep the former name. (And the marriage may be temporary in such cases, anyway, with those women who insist on keeping their own name and not taking his!)

    Anyway, I personally haven’t seen the hyphenated thing happening for a few years now, but I’m no expert on fashions.

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  108. Good morning. Well, good evening and good morning. I read all the comments. As usual (having blocked my heart and mind against an imaginary God whose existence is obvious to everybody but me, I continue to disagree, while treasuring the infinite punishment God has reserved or me because He loves me so much). Let’s see if there is a Monday, thread.

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