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Our Daily Thread 9-17-12

Good Morning! It feels like Fall here. It’s chilly this morning.

This is the Daily thread. Talk about whatever you’d like.

Quote of the Day

“Government is not reason; it is not eloquence; it is force! It is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.”

George Washington

 

 

127 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 9-17-12”

  1. Well good morning all. In case you missed it over the weekend I am getting married! I sent an email to my priest this morning asking/telling him about it. I think we have decided to have a very small ceremony on a Sunday afternoon. There will be a reception afterwards at my friend’s Bob and Malia’s. I made Bob cry (excuse me, he had something in his eye) yesterday when I told them how the proposal went. The weekend I am trying to work with, Malia already has a bridesmaid’s luncheon on Friday at her house and then the wedding and reception for that one will be on Saturday. She will already have the tables and tablecloths and serving pieces rented and the company won’t pick them up until Monday. That saves me the expense of those. Her house will already be decorated with mums and cut flowers, etc.
    I have to get in touch with Aunt Leesie (of the coconut cake fame) and tell her she is now a caterer. I have the menu and the recipes and will help her get it all together but she is going to have to be in charge. Steve and Debi came for gumbo yesterday. They are thrilled and asked what I needed them to do…I’m not sure. Now that I typed that out…I may want Lisa to make coconut cake and then I won’t have the expense of a dry, flavorless wedding cake. I could have something people would actually want to eat…I’ll have to ponder that a little more.

    I am sure there are a million things I ought to be worrying about but with 3 weeks I don’t have the time and the end result will be the same and if anything doesn’t go just perfectly I will be the only one to know…right?

    Some of you wanted to know what Chloe aka Baby Girl had to say. I did things right. I called my ex-husband first thing Sunday morning and told him. I thought he had a right to hear it directly from me. He was happy for me. I told him that I wanted him to know but to keep it to himself until he brought BG home and Paul and I could tell her. When he did, I kept her in her room and told her myself. I could hear George in the living room talking to Paul. After I told BG she ran out of her room to find Paul and hug him and tell him that she was glad. Her main concern is me letting her plan the wedding and dress me. Do you think this will give me leverage when she gets married?

    Anyway, busy day. Off to work, jewelers to have the ring re-sized, and lots of other things. You all have a great day. I plan to!

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  6. Kim, I told my 15-year-old about your engagement, and the first thing she wanted to know was what your 15-year-old thought of it! When I told her Chloe ran from the room and gave Paul a hug, and how thrilled she was, my daughter was so excited! Congratulations from both of us!

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  7. How sweet and tenderhearted your daughter sounds. 6arrows.
    Drivesguy…I still have a few years before I can put BG in the Navy. Paul was in the Air Force for 4 years, got out for a few years, and went back in the Navy. His oldest served in the Army, his middle is in the Marine Corps, and his Baby Boy is in the Navy. Bewteen them they have all the armed forces covered.

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  8. QoD: Speaking of government (from the Quote of the Day), since many of us probably attended government schools growing up (or even if we didn’t), I want to ask:

    Do you feel your K-12 education helped prepare you for your current station in life? Why or why not?

    Off to read my Bible, then start our homeschool day. I’ll check back in later today. Have a good one, all. 🙂

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  9. I attended Christian School (aka Segregation Academy) from K through 11th grade. I don’t think a got a very good education past about 8th grade. I attended public school my Senior year. The calculas teacher told me if was no offense to my past education but if I hadn’t have him Junior year I would pass his class Senior year. He was right and I was taken out of the class. My English teacher introduced me to more literature and made me think for myself.
    Christian school was more worried about my eternal life than the life I would have to live here on earth until eternal life happend. I have told many people over the years that I was probably a Junior in college before I felt I had the “book knowledge” my dad had with a high school education.

    I’ve done OK through life and been really lucky, but if I could have been anything I wanted to be I would have been a mechanical engineer…I just didn’t have the math skills to do it.
    As far as writing skills, my senior English teacher bled red ink over anything I wrote. I turned in the first draft of any assignment on Tuesday and by Friday I could turn in a B+ or A-
    Mr. Threadgill introduced me to philosopy, music, art, and numerous other things.

    Do I think BG is getting a good education in public school? To a degree. The biggest complaint I have is that where we were encouraged to be true individuals and think for ourselves they are not. They are encouraged to “drink the Kool-aid” so to speak. I spend a fair amount of time de-programming her and teaching her to question and think for herself.

    Your rights end where mine begin and my rights end where yours begin. Free speech is a right and no one should be punished, boycotted, or stoned for speaking their mind. You may not agree with them and you may know in your heart they are a blithering idiot but it is their right to be an idiot and you can just ignore them. If you don’t stand up for other’s rights you may just lose your own.

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  10. There are several versions of this. I chose this one to share:

    When the Nazis came for the communists,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a communist.

    When they locked up the social democrats,
    I remained silent;
    I was not a social democrat.

    When they came for the trade unionists,
    I did not speak out;
    I was not a trade unionist.

    When they came for the Jews,
    I remained silent;
    I wasn’t a Jew.

    When they came for me,
    there was no one left to speak out.

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  13. Congratulations, Kim. If I agree to do wedding security for you, can me and my security team have unlimited access to your dessert bar?

    Anyway, because you are you, I will attempt to move some other security jobs back schedule-wise, just in order to be there for you, security-wise, when you most need a top-notch professional wedding security specialist, which would be me and my team, during a wedding.

    I have references, of course, although most of their comments have to redacted, at least in family-friendly forums like this.

    You do need to warn the aspiring groom that he will be quite THOROUGHLY vetted, during the pre-ceremony security screening. It will all start with a top-to-bottom medical exam, performed by a buddy of mine who is very qualified – specifically he used to help a veterinarian (before his employment was unfortunately terminated, due to a bizarre and unfortunate event involving a poodle, a plunger, and a bathtub drain, which was not really his fault, not entirely).

    Well, I sure hope you have a good lawyer – you will probably need one.

    In my experience, really, really good security always seems to mean years and years of subsequent litigation and lawsuits.

    Congratulations, Kim. Like your other friends here, I pray that your marriage will be blessed by God.

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  17. Congratulations, Kim! I was married 6 weeks after I got engaged, and had over 250 guests at the ceremony,so it can be done! Good luck with the preparations!

    I already posted this on the 9/15 thread, but want to make sure everyone sees it. As many of you know, my sister and her family are in Rwanda serving with Samaritan’s Purse. While they were training, they met a family preparing to serve in Sierra Leone. They have an 8 year old daughter named Brooklyn. After they’d been in Africa for about a week, Brooklyn became very ill. She was diagnosed with Typhoid and a severe urinary tract infection. She was transported to Ghana and given dialysis (due to renal failure) and blood transfusions. When she is stable enough, they need to transport her to London. Please pray for her, her parents, and the doctors involved in her care.

    Also, a dear childhood friend has been staying with me for the last week. He is doing a chinoisee (spelling?)in our dining room. He is not a Christian and is gay. His parents were atheists and his exposure to Christians has been very limited. Please pray for him and for me to not be a stumbling block for him. We’ve had some heated discussions over the last week and many laughs. I love him like a brother and would appreciate any prayers.

    Thanks.

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  18. Hopefully, BG will go to NROTC and be an officer. You did not hear this from me Kim, but the Coast Guard might be a better career move for her if she wants to serve. She could be stationed there in Alabama as part of Air Sea Rescue. She could apply as a helicopter pilot.

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  19. I was going to suggest the Coast Guard for Chloe, too, but my reasoning was because Paul’s sons have the other services in hand. 🙂

    It would be cool if my little grandson grows up to be a forest ranger. Then I’ll be able to refer to him as Ranger Forrest, Forest Ranger. 🙂

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  20. Mozel Tov Kim!!!! I read quickly about your engagment yesterday and was telling hubby how much your life has changed since we were at the Florabama 😉 So happy for the new job and the good man!

    QoD: I very much appreciate my public education. Not only did it properly prepare me for college (also a goverment institution that has stood me in good stead vocationally), but it taught me the warp and woof of community. We lived for a while in Orange County and then moved home to Carlsbad, CA (at least for me) and the younger of our seven kids have gone through my old elementary, middle and high schools. Our older kids started at a Christain private school and we did home school for a bit, but God clearly led us back to local community schools and it has been terrific for our kids. Oddly enough the diversity and different points of view have deepened the faith of our younger kids all through, where the older ones struggled and then came back around.

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  22. QoD; My public school education was terrible. I don’t think I learned anything until college.
    We send out son to a private Christian school. He is zoned for the same school I attended. I’ve seen what his friends from the public school are learning and he appears to be ahead in Math. Since I majored in English I can tell they are doing a pretty good job there. Literature and History seems to be pretty classic and maybe a little too limited for my taste. Science is very basic so far but I don’t know a enough about science to compare. His best friend from the neighborhood is transferring from the pubic school to the same private school next year. It will be interesting to see if he is ahead or behind.

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  24. QOD. I went to both parochial and public school. I benefited from both. It was in parochial school that I learned the methods of study and proper grammar, reading comprehension and composition. In public school, I became fascinated with Physics, Math, Science and History. The combination of those skills prepared me for the ministry God has placed me in today.

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  25. QOD: I attended private, Christian schools for K-3 and my last two years of high school. In between, I attended the local public school in a small town in the Texas Hill Country. I learned almost nothing from third through about seventh grade. My public education was abysmal. I was significantly behind when I re-entered private school as a junior. I never recovered in math, scoring almost 300 points higher on the verbal section of the SAT than on the math section. However, my oldest daughter (L.) attended a private, Christian school for K-6 and then transferred to our local junior high. She was behind academically when she transferred and seems to be receiving a pretty good education now. But I hate that she’s not getting a Christian worldview for the eight hours she’s away from me each day.

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  26. I think my public schooling was adequate (I graduated in 1966, so this is old news). I think that the education that our sons received in Lutheran schools (Calvary Lutheran day school and Baltimore Lutheran for middle and high school) was far superior to my own.

    This is my philosophy about public schools. You can get a fine education there. You can also be very intelligent, with great potential, and slip through under the radar without anyone noticing and encouraging you excel. That is what happened to my husband. Fortunately he was able to rise above it on his own after he graduated but he could have done a lot more with a little bit of encouragement in high school.

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  27. Good Morning, Y’all!

    Wow! Congratulations to Kim and Paul…may you be richly blessed!

    QOD: I’m guessing that my time in public schools really did help get me ready for teaching in a public school…

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  30. Whoa, three weeks!? Yikes and good grief!

    You all in the south are in a hurry, girl.

    But congratulations again. 🙂 🙂 So glad the news was welcomed by BG, a lot of adjustments ahead but you all will make them.

    Sooo, are you moving into his place? Or? Maybe in time you can buy a cozy cottage that the two of you can pick out together.

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  31. Karen, love the Ranger Forrest idea! How funny that would be. Kind of a cool job, too, though, now that I think about it.

    I remember seeing a special on TV, or maybe it was the setting of a movie, where they lived in this really tall cabin on stilts, windows on all sides, so they could see out all around them if a fire or other problem started.

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  32. Congrats, Kim!! I missed the engagement story, but was sure blown away today by the good news. I needed that today! How very exciting for you and Chloe. Of course, she will be in culture shock for awhile after the newness wears off. Praying you all adjust easily.

    I had good and bad in my education. With all the different teachers and both parochial. and public schools it is hard to make any blanket statement. I would say the same about my children’s educations, which were in public, private and home school. My mom made sure we could read and that we made the effort in our classes. Parents need to be pro-active, no matter what method of education they choose for their children.

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  33. Donna, Cindi and I were only engaged 6 weeks before we were married. We met on Marine Corp Birthday and we were married January 14th. I sure do miss my bride. I can hardly wait until December 13th when I will be home for Christmas.

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  36. I received a good public school education. I was in public education for all years including college. I do feel it was lacking in social and spiritual training which would have helped me immensely. It was large scale education quite unlike what my son has received through homeschooling and a private Christian college. I feel my son’s education has been well-rounded.

    As far as being prepared for what I am doing at this stage in life, I think the public education has been okay, but again, lacking in any spiritual training. I tend to think I would have fared better in life if I could have had more Christian influences in my life as I was going through school.

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  39. Hi Aji Suun!

    Hi Roscuro! (Have we known you by another name? The “Bien” makes me wonder if perhaps you are a certain young lady of Canadian persuasion? Or maybe not?)

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  40. I think going to public school and being raised by atheists, I never really thought Christian training the purview of schools. Even when we sent our oldest to a Christian school it was for academic reasons not for any sort of catecism. And little did we know until later, that the early primary teachers at the public school were far better than the private school teachers and all Christian. I think every parent needs to do their homework on their options. One size does not fit all families or even all kids. And the parents involvement and response to education is huge.

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  41. I have continued to have interesting & frustrating “conversations” with my liberal Facebook friend, Sandy. Sandy has called herself a Christian, but is definitely a liberal Christian, & from what she’s written on religious topics, I doubt that she has yet had a personal encounter with Jesus. I’m glad that she & I can disagree heartily on political & social issues, but still remain friendly.

    (This is the friend who posted that it is the “religious attitudes” of Christians that has lead to the recent violence in the Middle East.)

    In one of our discussions, she said,

    “People in the Middle East experience a vastly different culture from ours, have far less resources, far less access to the liberating things (public education, freedom of speech, freedom of religion) we take for granted. Considering the amount of violence experienced in this area of the world just over the past 50 years, I would bet many MANY people have complex/chronic PTSD – where they simply can’t ‘think through’ things, find a sense of inner calm … a movie made by Egyptians who happen to live in the USA hits raw nerves (nerves we don’t perceive but legitimate nevertheless).

    “Telling ‘them’ that they are over-reacting is like telling people in south-central Los Angeles that they were ‘over-reacting’ to the ‘not guilty’ verdict 20+ years ago that led to the civil unrest. Somehow we have to embrace this fact – that ‘their’ reality and ours are DIFFERENT.”

    There was more to it, but that’s the main point. My reply was that by saying that they pretty much can’t help themselves, she is infantalizing them.

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  42. So happy for you, Kim. And yes, you certainly do have leverage when it comes to BG’s wedding. In fact, I would say you have double leverage, first because you are her mother and second because you let her help with yours.

    I went to public school but, as it was back in the 50s, it was when they still taught things like Early American History, English grammar, math and spelling. I’d say it did prepare me for my life today, perhaps it even made me a little [?] picky, as I generally find I have to control my urge to correct the grammar of certain young people that I know when we are in public.

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  43. I’ve been wondering if everyone would be willing to end their posts with their old WMB name if it’s different that what we are seeing here so we can be reminded of whom you are?
    (I was recently lshaffer but originally mommy)

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  45. Sigh, it shows below when I am typing and it shows when you click on “view complete profile,” but I don’t know why it doesn’t show when I post. I changed it both on the Gravatar site and on my account here.

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  46. On another thread of comments on Sandy’s page, she asks just what is a Christian after all? Is it someone born into a Christian family or who goes to church every Sunday or what?

    I was happy to share with Sandy what the Bible says one must do to be a Christian, & to share some of my own experience. I think she is searching for something real that she hasn’t yet found at a church, but thinks she might be finding at a Buddhist center she likes to go to.

    Please pray for Sandy to be moved by the Holy Spirit into faith in Jesus.

    Thank you.

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  50. My understanding was that the mommies planned when AE (my granddaughter, once known online as RG) got old enough they would take her to various churches and let her decide for herself if she would want to believe. Unlike my neighbors’ fine Lutheran church, that starts having the little chicks act out the resurrection story at the age of three (when they are obviously old enough to make free will decisions). I asked my daughter (when she visited us last weekend) when she thought AE would be old enough? “Oh, she has been to church already She went to a sermon taught by Joe [step grandfather of her co-daddy, and a Methodist preacher in Colorado, very big in “civil rights” Christianity who once marched with MLK].” She’s been to several other church services. She finds them very boring. She can hardly wait for the services to be done.”

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  51. As I am demented, I don’t remember if I’ve asked this AQOD. Have you ever suffered for witnessing for your faith?

    As I am faithless, I was persecuted once by a Buddhist. And I thought that was a philosophy (not a religious belief), and I thought it was a “whatever” of peace. Not hardly, I guess. Gotta go to the gym and persecute myself (called exercising) to try and stay alive. It hurts to stay alive at 68, but better than the alternative.

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  53. Just heard this question when someone came in the office: Would you rather have a Morman or a moron for President? 🙂 LOL The answer to that question is a no-brainer, oops, I meant the religious one even if we aren’t of the same faith.

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  56. More from me later.

    I was out of town last week and without reliable computer access; I asked a couple people to post that I was having computer issues and would be back soon, but I’m not sure anyone did. (That isn’t being dishonest, BTW. Besides the fact that I’m not morally required to post when I’m out of town, and neither my husband nor I wishes to have such things announced, it wasn’t being “away” that kept me from posting. I could access the site, and did, but couldn’t post on it. I tried multiple times.)

    Partly because of that inability to post from my hubby’s computer, and my unwillingness to state on the internet when I will or won’t be in town, I’ll probably end up being more of a lurker on this site than I was on WORLD, but I will be back later today to tell a bit about our trip.

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  58. Nice pictures, Kay and Ajisuun! 🙂 🙂

    Karen, I thought the same as you when seeing the word “Bien”, especially since it was in italics. Kind of reminded me of a certain someone of, I liked how you phrased it, “Canadian persuasion”. 🙂

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  60. I seem to be able to post under my name. Originally, I tried to start a new profile but it wouldn’t let me…I figured “inbutnotof” was more relevant to World. I was thinking about “usedtobein”…oh well…

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  65. My youngest sibling is getting married in a few days – so between that, and getting ready for going overseas, I have been busier than a one-armed paper-hanger (as my father would say). I have lurked here though, in my spare moments.

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  67. Happy Anniversary, Mr. and Mrs. T! 🙂

    Welcome, Phos! 🙂 What’s the significance of “roscuro”, or is it just a combination of letters that lets you in here?

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  69. All righty, I’m back.

    My hubby and I took a “second honeymoon” (six weeks before our anniversary) to the Smokies. His sister gave us a week at her timeshare for our wedding gift, but since it’s basically a condo we chose to rent a cabin for our real honeymoon and do the condo thing later.

    Note to anyone considering buying a timeshare: Don’t. It’s a rip-off: If you “buy” a unit for $12,000 or whatever and $700 a year “maintenance fees,” then you’re basically paying $90 a day to stay in a unit you already “own.” Also, you can’t resell it at the price you paid for it, so you’re basically paying as much as a hotel room plus being locked into staying at places where they own units. Ours was nice–great view of the mountains–but they were building another huge unit between us and the mountains, so our view was vlocked a bit and we had daily construction noise. Plus we could hear toilets flushing in other units, and people coughing, and since it’s a non-smoking unit the person below us seemed to stay on his deck smoking all day, making our own deck nearly unusable. And the dryer was vented through the ceiling, so it took a long time to dry anything and smelled funny while it was in use.

    Otherwise it was really nice . . . but as my husband pointed out, if we’d actually bought it, then we’d spend the whole vacation disgusted that we’d gotten roped into it, rather than actually enjoying it.

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  75. We were gone for the better part of two weeks since we decided to go down and back on a “leisurely” route: we went down through North Carolina, seeing one of my nephews (we’d hoped to see two) and his new bride, and also going to Cheap Joe’s Art Supply and Grandfather Mountain. We spent two nights in Boone. Some weird driving experiences in N.C., though–very steep and winding. Don’t trust GPS in that region; it may not be the best route!

    We then were in the Smokies for a week, and we got to see Cades Cove (on our honeymoon we only saw a little bit by way of a carriage ride because we got sick only a couple of days into our honeymoon), hiked a moderate waterfall trail (another thing we didn’t get to do on our honeymoon, same reason), and we drove a motor trail that had some lovely views (creek, mountains, trees, 150-year-old log cabins in clearings).

    The last two days, Friday afternoon through Sunday afternoon, we spent in my old stomping grounds, near Nashville. Got to attend my old church and have meals and a game night with friends. The couple who hosted my hubby for each of his visits to the area while we were courting hosted both of us.

    I took about 500 photos! My hubby also took a lot, but not that many. Best shots: clouds in Grandfather Mountain that really looked like white waves on an ocean; two captive cougars (my hubby got these; I wasn’t tall enough to reach to the top of the glass and aim the camera down, but he got them with my camera’s zoom lens); great shots of all sorts of weather over the Smokies; and, best of all, two otters standing in a creek at Cades Cove, the one nearest us holding a fish he had just caught! We also got some shots of a buck at Cades Cove . . . though some thoughtless yong woman (thoughtless in both senses of the word) had gone over the fence (which was topped with two strands of barbed wire, enough to tell most people “keep out”) to get closer pictures of him, which not only moved him farther back from anyone else trying to get his photo, but also made it hard to get his photo at all without getting her in the shot! Oh yeah, we also got some good shots of butterflies, mostly red-spotted purple; we even got several when one of them chose to land on my finger! Several other people got shots of him too while we (the butterfly and I) posed, and when I explained why he landed (many male butterflies need salt to reproduce, so they’re drawn to damp patches of dirt that has salt in it, or to sweat), one of the women told me that he landed on the right person.

    We sort of saw a bear: we could see black fur through the trees where people had been watching a bear and either one or two cubs, but neither of us saw more than that. But we got our good bear sighting last year (a bear and two cubs in the open, across from our cabin), so we gladly took the buck and otters instead. We also saw a lot of wild turkeys (half a dozen viewings of several birds each).

    Now to load all those photos onto my computer and see which ones turned out sharp enough to be “great” shots and not just good ones. . . .

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  76. Cheryl, welcome back. I’m completely with you on not announcing when you’re away.

    Phos, welcome back in a different way–nice to see you.

    KBells, to change your avatar, click on any avatar on this page to get to the Gravatar web site, then in the upper right corner click “My Account” and “Manage My Gravatars”.

    Random, I’ve certainly never been “persecuted” in any serious sense for witnessing. Like most Christians here, I suspect, I’ve received incredulous looks and snide remarks.

    At Thanksgiving my freshman year in college I was at an informal reunion of several high school friends at a teacher’s home. One of the other students asked if others of us had run into people who had Bible studies in the dorm. Everyone nodded and made comments like “that’s so embarrassing”.

    I had the chutzpah to ask why that was embarrassing, what’s wrong with that, and suddenly everyone wanted to know if I’d become a Jesus freak (this was in ’75 so the Jesus freak stereotype was relevant). I had in fact been attending a dorm Bible study and was exploring whether or not there was anything real and relevant to the faith I’d expressed adopted as a child and mostly ignored in high school, which shocked my intellectual high school friends, especially since I went to a renowned institution of science and technology. I wasn’t prepared for that reception, and was pretty quiet for the rest of the day.

    But persecuted, no.

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  77. I meant to mention, it was my kindly old German teacher-slash-surrogate grandmother hosting the reunion who asked if I was a Jesus freak. She was as shocked as any of my fellow students.

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  80. 🙂 Chas, you can always get Mumsee to confirm my identity.
    6 Arrows & Kare: Kare is correct on both counts. It is a contraction of ‘chiaroscuro’ (light-dark) as a throwback to my old name (phos is greek for light), and it is also inspired by the forgiven rat in Kate diCamillo’s lovely tale of Despereaux.

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  81. My island has a very socialist bus system. I know it is free because it does not charge a fare to ride. Is that fair? I was riding the bus a few weeks ago and a driver I will call O (though he was not Obama or Oprah), was driving. We were the only people on the bus. O mentioned something about the Israelis and how much he admires them, and how tough they are, and how good they are at defending themselves.

    I don’t remember how the subject came up, but I mentioned 1) that I am Jewish and I don’t know what a “Jew” is. Is it a religion? Is it a race? Is it a culture? However, I said, if the Nazis come, I will identify myself as a Jew and probably die trying to kill a few.

    O said he didn’t agree with me. He said, my people have suffered (O is black), but the Jews have really suffered. I hope to visit Israel some time before I die.
    Now, I went to an orthodox synagogue for a few months when I was 10 years old, but I think of myself as more black than Jewish. My first girlfriend in high school was black, and I taught in ghetto schools for a few years, and we lived on a street where every face but my family’s was white. I can’t sing, I can’t dance, and I’ve never been able to make a jump shot in my life, but I still think of myself as kind of black. On the other hand, O is black, but seems to think of himself as kind of Jewish.

    Though, maybe not. As the bus ride continued, he began “witnessing” to me about his Christian belief. He began with Pascal’s wager, as if this were a new idea, though it seems to be the most common tactic used by Christians to entice non-believers to be Christians. Now O works for a public agency, and I communicated with another bus driver) who also belongs to my atheist “church.” He was not surprised. He said O does not preach to other bus agency employees, but did offer a prayer at a public meeting.

    Now I did not complain when O preached to me, and if I asked him to shut up, I am sure he would have been quiet. However, I am pretty sure that if someone complained about O preaching, he would be in trouble (even though he is rated as one of the best bus drivers in the system). 1) Should O refrain from preaching, witnessing, or whatever you want to call it while driving a bus? 2) If he were disciplined for doing so, would it be “religious persecution” of a Christian?

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  82. We have been pleased with our timeshare experience. We have owned our unit since 1985. Ours is at the beach in the winter. I have a friend who has inherited a timeshare through her in-laws. It is in the mountains, and I have had the pleasure of being there on numerous occasions. That one has worked out well, also. So much depends on the management and other owners who are there during your visit. Timeshares are not for everyone, but they do work well for some people.

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  84. Timeshares almost always outlive their usefulness. And you can’t get rid of them.
    Go to a timeshare sales site if you think you might want one. You can always find one real cheap.

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  86. Kim,
    Congratulations again to both you and Paul. I’m glad to hear that BG is positive about the marriage. That should make the inevitable adjustments go much smoother.

    Regarding the wedding security being offered by Drill—I think it might provide much entertainment for your guests…. though you might want to hire some extra security to police your security team, if you know what I mean. 🙂

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  87. Random,

    I’ve never been persecuted for my faith, but immediately upon announcing my conversion, I lost a few close friends. People who thought fairly highly of me when I was a fornicating libertine suddenly lost interest when I went from knocking Christians to talking about how great Jesus is.

    Being a Christian causes some friction in my marriage to my Jain husband, too. After 24 years, we’ve somewhat figured out how to smooth some things over without either compromising on our convictions, but it’s by no means all worked out.

    In regard to Pascal’s wager, I always thought it sounded pretty lame the way it’s generally presented, but after reading some Pascal, I came to see the profundity of his thought. Have you, perchance, read any of the Penses? And what about Chesterton? Have you read anything by him? You mentioned the other day that you’d read lots of books recommended by Christians, so I was just wondering if those happened to be among them?

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    • Ree wrote:

      after reading some Pascal, I came to see the profundity of his thought. Have you, perchance, read any of the Penses? And what about Chesterton? Have you read anything by him?

      I have read some of Pascal’s works. I did not read them in French, which perhaps impaired my understanding, just as some Muslims argue that failing to read the Koran in Arabic does not give it full justice. I did not learn Hebrew at the age of 10 (though taught a little at the time); I did study a little French, but my brain is like a sieve so all that remains is si for “yes” and spacebo for “thank you”; (I did read some of the The Stranger in French, but as Camus was a fornicating existentialist it was probably a bad influence on me.)

      However, Pascal was a very intelligent dude, as was Newton, and both were religious believers. On the other hand, Bertrand Russell and Richard Feynman were two very intelligent atheists. Perhaps reading more Pascal would make me more religious, but perhaps reading more Russell and Feynman would cause you to lose some of your faith.

      I have read some Chesterston. He wrote some good mysteries.

      It’s all a very slippery slope, and perhaps twists into a Moebius strip.

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  88. Kim,

    So does this new development mean that you’ll postpone your wedding for a few months or that you’ll get married in another church or what?

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  90. I think I might have things worked out. Paul is a smart man. He told me to do whatever I wanted to do about getting married. I will call my former priest tomorrow to see about getting married. If that doesn’t work we will do a civil ceremony, go through the class and have the marriage blessed at at later date.

    Because I can’t show you the actual rings, I found one on line that is close enough for you to know. The stones are different sizes than these are but the basic setting is the same.

    http://www.circa1930s.com/c30shop/engring/ew4570b/ew4570b-set.htm

    The rings might have belonged to Paul’s grandmother before his mother wore them based on what the jeweler told me today. Paul thought they were from the 50’s the jeweler told me they were a classic 1920’s 1930’s design and the cut of the diamonds backed that up.

    I had asked for a plain gold band that was my own, but when I put them all together today it didn’t look right.

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  92. Kim,

    Best wishes!

    Cheryl, welcome back – Smokies are amazing this time of year.

    Ty, happy aniversary

    Phos, I’m gonna have to resist redubbing you chia.

    KarenO

    While I think you are right that your friend is infantalizing some folks in the MENA region, there is a point about different cultural expereinces. They have no elightenment era; no renaissance, no reformation. What’s more is that they are coming out of governmental systems where the state did control information. So when we say the USG cannot prohibit speech, they don’t believe it. MENA is going to be messy for a while or it will gonback to despotic governments.

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  93. Anything happen while I was gone?

    We had some happenings. Did you know that bears hang out sometimes where salmon are spawning? Did you know that it takes a lot of energy to swim up to 4500 feet? I did not try it but the salmon were dying right and left. And we hiked a bit of the Lewis Clark trail. Always a fun stint. I am not certain of the change in elevation but it goes up a long ways and down a long ways, about three miles each way. The six year old in glasses went, but not the five year old. She stayed back with the camping buddies.

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  94. I got good news today. Closing will be on the 28th. I wanted the 21st, but that did not work out. So I have been slowly but surely moving stuff out of the apartment into storage. I am going to try to have everything ready so all I have to do is move the food and my bed on the 28th. I will have to shut off the internet probably on the 26th. So do not worry about me too much. I will probably have to forgo posting at my Bible Study site until I get internet back up at the new homestead. I will probably post all the lessons at once when I get back on line.

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  95. I’m glad for your good news, Joe.
    Mumsee, if you read back, you’ll see that Kim is getting married.
    She won’t tell us what day, probably because she’s having coconut cake at the reception and doesn’t want me to show up.

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  97. CB – Yes, I agree about the cultural differences. It was that she seemed to be saying (maybe it was more apparent in the part I didn’t quote) that we can’t blame them for reacting with violence & killing that I had a problem with.

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  99. Best prayers and all, Kim!

    And I see little bro finally had his birthday so he could be as old as the rest of us for a while. Happy birthday, Kevin. Did anybody get you a cake?

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  104. Hi Cheryl and Phos. Nice to see you ladies. Mumsee the camper as well. And of course Ajisuun and anyone else I missed. You ladies are all quite the travelers. That is quite cool.

    And Tychicus as well. Happy Anniversary by the way.

    🙂

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  105. My public education was a long time ago, and it was — adequate.

    The problem with a public education is the world view that one is getting. In my day, it was still staunchly Judeo-Christian. It is NOT anymore in most classrooms, and certainly not in the school overall.

    Also, one has to decide what is “a good education?” Is it the utilitarian, test-oriented, subject-driven curriculum in most public schools? Or is it something more? Are the students able to join the “Great Conversation” when they leave school, or are they simply focused on a particular, narrow career path? Do math majors learn to write? Can English majors manage science?

    A Classical Liberal Arts view of education is no longer something one can easily find in public schools, which is why the student of the forties was better educated after graduating high school, than most college graduates are now-a-days.

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  106. And, yes, many private schools are simply public schools with uniforms and a few Christianity classes (another subject) tacked on. That is really no better. One is simply paying for a few extra Bible stories and the *hope* that one’s kids are being schooled with “nicer” kids.

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  107. Tammy, my kids both attended private Christian schools. We did that because we knew that we would not be able to be involved in the school life as much as we should in a public school. It ended up that hubby finished our kids time at their K-9 school as the school board chair! The teachers were what kept us there. They genuinely loved and cared for our kids. The principal even stayed late one day and helped our son clean out his locker and get organized (he would stash his lunches and gym clothes there, so it wasn’t a fun time for her.)
    The kids were normal kids – nice or mean as they chose to be. But the teachers were always there for my kids – they looked on their job as a mission (they were paid like some missionaries too – very low salary). I will forever be grateful that they chose to serve God and my kids this way.

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  108. It’s hard for me to say how much my K-12 education prepared me for my current “station in life,” since I’ve gone through so many years of post-secondary education, quite a few different (and different kinds of) jobs, and a lot of other life experiences. It certainly didn’t prepare me to be a mother or a pastor’s wife, but then why should it? It is largely the parents’ role to prepare their children to be husbands/wives and parents, regardless of what kind of help they engage for teaching academics.

    As for what my K-12 education – all in public school – did well:
    Excellent written communication skills – grammar, spelling, composition
    Excellent reading skills and decent knowledge of and appreciation of literature
    Good grounding in math, though I never used it much
    Good grounding in science, including an understanding of the scientific method
    Good overview of history
    Opportunities to learn French, play violin in the orchestra, march in flag corps, write for the school newspaper, compete in math league
    Positive adult role models (important to me because of my father’s violent rages and my mother’s mental illness)

    What my K-12 education didn’t do so well:
    Fair (at best) on geography
    Poor in developing physical strength and coordination
    Poor in public speaking skills
    Poor in social skills

    In my case, I’m sure homeschooling would have been a lousy choice. Based on the teens I got to know who attended the local Christian school while I was in high school, I don’t think it would have been a good choice either (probably similar to Kim’s experience).

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  109. This morning I woke up dreaming of a song about “Drilling a Tunnel to Heaven,” and then dreamed about Drill’s dogs chasing our chickens and then yelping when they hit our electric fence meant to deter coyotes and raccoons. When my granddaughter was about three or four we took her for a walk and she picked up a cocoon. Trying to stimulate her scientific curiosity, her birth mother asked AE, “What comes out of what you are holding?”

    “I know,” she proudly said, “The butterfly comes out of the . . . the raccoon!”. Her feelings were very hurt when Mommy, Mama, Grandma, and Grandpa started laughing hysterically.

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  111. QOD: I attended public school and it most definitely prepared me for what I do now. Because of it, I know my children are slackers because I was one. I did and learned nothing that I am aware of in the last six years of public school. Simply showed up and moved from class to class. The only exception would be that after six years of Spanish and four years of Latin, I probably have one year of Spanish ability and six months of Latin ability. So, I can see when my children are trying to sit it out rather than learn and bust them on it.

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  112. From my limited point of view, I always noticed that the young people who came out of a Catholic school background were generally nicer than a lot of the public school students with whom I was familiar. In general it seemed they had a more caring and empathetic attitude toward people. I don’t know why but I never seemed to meet people from a Christian school background other than the Catholics.

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  113. “Referendum 74 concerns same-sex marriage. The ballot title reads as follows: The legislature passed Engrossed Substitute Senate Bill 6239 concerning marriage for same-sex couples, modified domestic-partnership law, and religious freedom, and voters have filed a sufficient referendum petition on this bill. This bill would allow same-sex couples to marry, preserve domestic partnerships only for seniors, and preserve the right of clergy or religious organizations to refuse to perform, recognize, or accommodate any marriage ceremony. Should this bill be: Approved? Rejected?”

    “In this case, it seems people support the idea of gay marriage, but get confused when presented with specific ballot language.”

    The above is from a web page discussing the referendum coming up in regard to same-sex marriage in Washington State. Apperently a poll indicates that a slim majority of people favor same-sex marriage, but also indicates that because the referendum involves a law passed by the legislature and an initiative to repeal the the law quite a few people are confused by the language. One possibility may be that such confusion may increase the possibility that people don’t get what they really want. Again, this raises the issue of who is more intelligent?

    Religious people who favor same-sex marriage?
    Atheist people who favor same-sex marriage?
    Religious people who oppose same-sex marriage?
    Atheist people who oppose same-sex marriage?

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  114. I taught public school for a while. One day, I mentioned that some day the world would run out of petroleum products (fossil fuels). A student, whom I was pretty sure came from a very religious family, argued with me. After I (I think politely and respectfully) maintained my position, she began crying and ran out of the classroom.

    That was about 30 years ago. The world still has not run out of fossil fuels, though I do see a few autos running on electricity and a few runing on on duel systems (such as the Prius–a friend of mine owns a Prius).

    It would be difficult to track down that student, as she would be in her 40s now, and who knows where she lives, but perhaps I should apologize to her.

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  115. When I taught public school, I encouaged students to think for themselves and express their own opinions. A student, who had moved to the United States from Italy, became irritated with me. He told me that in Italy the teachers told him what to think, and he did not think my asking open-ended questions was appropriate.

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  118. One class I taught was like an on-going riot. Many of the students were gang members and the like.

    One day the Vice-Principal came to the door with two men in suits. The VP asked if Joe was in the class. I said to Joe, “Mr. Scott wants to see you.”

    “What for?” Joe snarled. I shrugged. Joe left and went into the hall. Joe did not return to class.

    At the end of the day I saw the Vice Principal. I asked, “What happened to Joe?”

    Mr. Scott replied, “Those two men with me were detectives from Seattle PD. They had a warrant for his arrest, for burglary.”

    I asked, “Wasn’t there some way we could have worked out a swap? There are students in that class who cause me much more trouble than Joe, and whom are much more deserving of incarceration.”

    The VP, who had to deal with much worse students on a daily basis, just gave me a sour smile and moved on to the next crisis to deal with.

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  121. Random,

    Funny, I thought “si” was yes in Spanish, and “oui” was French, but then I never took French, so what do I know? I do know I’ve never heard anyone say “spacebo”. I’m pretty confident that I’m getting the right message in the English translation of Pascal, though. Either that or I’m reading the brilliant reflections of someone else who claims to be translating Pascal. Either one’s okay with me.

    Reading Pascal or Chesterton or even the Bible itself won’t make you “more religious,” of course, unless God chooses to use any of those writings to convert you. And being “more religious” isn’t much of a goal to shoot for, anyway, I don’t think. But I do see those authors addressing some of the narrow reductionism of your atheist thinking in ways that might give you some pause. Maybe. I wasn’t thinking so much of Chesterton’s mysteries as I was his nonfiction works. I’m reading Orthodoxy for the second time right now, and I just finished reading Heretics. I’d heard of Orthodoxy for years before I ever read it, and I was thoroughly surprised at what it turned out to be. Nothing like what I’d thought. I’ve heard that The Everlasting Man is really good, too, but I haven’t read it yet. It’s on hold for me at the library.

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  122. State school all the way, but several of my children spent four years in private school and I can see what a better education they got than I had. Indeed, all my kids had far better math and science classes than I had–but then I took Calculus and Physics for Dummies at UCLA–for good reason.

    (I HAD to marry an engineer. Who knows what would have become of all the appliances if it were just up to me?)

    Delighted to hear Kim is going to join the ranks of retired Navy wives, but it looks to me like she’s getting an easier designator than I received. I actually had to put in the time . . .

    Will he wear a uniform at the wedding? (You remember, Kim always thought she’d end up married to a Naval officer after going to school near Annapolis!)

    Oh, and Drill–seriously, really–could you send your forces over to Yemen? My godson’s working there and while he feels perfectly safe, his mother and I are not so sure. He’ll be easy to spot: he’s 6′ 7″ tall and working at a starvation clinic. 😦

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  123. Si is yes in Spanish and oui is yes in French. Spacebo is thank you in Russian. So I presume Russian believers say it all the time. My Jewish Russian ancestors probably said it when they landed at Ellis Island. You can see why I never made it as a comedian, though at one time I wanted to be such.

    I was religious for about 60 seconds when I was about 14 years old. My parents (to be polite, I suspect) took all of us to church one Sunday at the request of some fundamentalist Christian friends. The minister gave an up roaring sermon about going to Hell. I remember thinking, Do you think …? Then I thought Nah. This is nonsense That’s the last time I remember considering religious belief seriously.

    Perhaps the AQOD for tomorrow will be, if a person is brought to Christ while he or she is demented, is the conversion genuine?

    My youngest sister is a zealous Christian, since the age of 12 or so. My mother fell into Alzheimer’s in the last few years of her life. My sister cared for my mother (which was very kind of her) and sister babbled to Mom incessantly about Jesus. My sister is convinced that she brought Mom to God. Does that have any meaning, or make any sense?

    My atheist brother and I contributed money to help sis care for Mom. Once Mom died, we were not willing to help sis take care of herself. I know from an aunt that sis now has a rich Christian friend who lets sis live with her. They sit together and babble endlessly to each other about Christ. In a way, this is sort of like an answered prayer for us.

    None of the above makes any sense whatsoever. Which is my point.

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  124. Welcome back Cheryl. Good to see Phos, too!

    Kim, I suspect our church would be similar in terms of requiring a period of counsel (first time or re-marriage, either one; without the Bishop’s approval part, of course. 🙂 )

    I spent the first part of today traipsing around a 4-acre L.A. schools science center in our town where there are maybe 200 animals, everything from a horse to a pig to a raven to desert tortoises to goats to geese to turkeys — and an albino squirrel.

    And also a duck named “Duck-Duck” (his mate is “Mrs. Duck-Duck,” or simply “Mrs. D”) who followed me around.

    “He doesn’t attack too often,” the staffer said as Duck-Duck moved in, his head bobbing low as he panted. “If he does, he’ll just clamp on to your feet and not let go.”

    I began moving slowly away. But Duck-Duck stayed close, following right behind me as we were given the tour of the crops and other animal pens.

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