~ Luther was paralyzed by fear when he sought to administer the Lord’s Supper for the first time. Baptism is too important to do at a party in someone’s swimming pool. It belongs under the rule and supervision of the church. The confession, following the church practice through the ages, says that the sacraments are to be administered by those who are in positions of ordained authority, the lawfully ordained ministers of the Word. ~
Interesting story about infant baptism–or at least the sprinkling version of it (all our children were baptized as infants–whether we were in a liturgical church at the time or not).
I think I have this correct. Feel free to check it out and correct me.
In the first 400 or so years of the church after Jesus’ death, when someone became a Christian, they were baptized in a mitvah bath–and thus went into and under the water.
Men were baptized in the male mitvahs and women in the female mitvahs.
After Constantine’s conversion in the 4th century, the church became an “organ” of the government.
Those who became Christians still were baptized in the mitvah, but the ruling men recognized this required female deacons.
Those in power didn’t want women involved in church leadership, so they changed the baptismal requirements into the “sprinkling” aspect. This way they did not need women to baptize other women in the mitvah.
Some church denominations require baptism by immersion. Because of our military life, I’ve attended 18 churches/multiple denominations over the last 54 years.
Some were liturgical (and thus were content with sprinkling over a font). Others were not (and insisted members be baptized by immersion).
As noted yesterday, I got tired of explaining I believed my infant baptism was sufficient. When my ten-year-old asked to be baptized by immersion at the Calvary Chapel we attended at the time, we discussed it and decided if that was on his heart to do so, we should allow it.
I didn’t want to complicate his understanding of his God by explaining my reasoning.
But, then I decided to join him and be baptized in a local lake with a group of others. It made the leadership feel better–and we are subject to the leadership in our church–and that would take the argument off the table in the future.
Which is has. No one ever asked me about how I was baptized, as I noted yesterday, until the mega-church in Louisville where I spoke in 2023 required it.
I realize that hundreds of years ago AntiBaptists were burned at the stake for confronting a similiar situation and refusing to be rebaptized.
I lean on “For freedom Christ has set me free, stand therefore no longer under the yoke of slavery.”
God knows my heart and soul.
That’s sufficient for me–just as one baptism would have been as well.
Churches have developed disagreements on baptism modes, which is unfortunate (and trying to read into what isn’t there in the Scriptures). It’s the cleansing aspect of the sacrament that is important. So whether dipped, immersed, poured or sprinkled, I’d say it all “counts” as one’s baptism into the faith.
On the baptism, I was baptized at confirmation in a Presbyterian church at age twelve. I was not a true believer at that age. As an adult I had a ‘Believer’s Baptism’ in the Southern Baptist church I wanted to join. It was by immersion which I was happy to do as a way of following the example of Jesus who was baptized in the Jordan. I had wanted to be baptized in the Jordan, but the baptismal pool in the church sanctuary was a suitable substitute. A Believer’s Baptism made sense to me given my background, and it met the requirements of church membership. I don’t have expectation that others will understand or approve of my second baptism. I personally don’t believe the first one counted, but I am not God. Please don’t judge me if you think I am wrong about this. I do not offer my explanation as a temptation to judge.
Janice – I have been baptized twice as well. The first time was when I attended a Baptist church with a friend and her family when I was 15. But I don’t know if I was truly saved at that time, because I walked away from the faith after a little while. Upon either coming back or being truly saved (which I think was the case), I felt the Holy Spirit nudging me to be baptized “for real,” and I obeyed.
I don’t think anybody is judging, I think we are discussing and trying to get a better understanding of God we all have perspectives and those can help others better understand.
husband was sprinkled in the Methodist church early on but was immersed so he could be a Baptist member. It happens a lot. Others were baptized before believing and baptized when they come to faith. It happens a lot.
I think that I may have had both, but my family did not go to church so there wasn’t a recollection of anything from when I was an infant.
But when I was in college I came to Christ. Then later I attended the baptism of a friend where everything was clearly explained. So the next month I was baptized.
Flew from Portland to Sacramento today. On the way home I watched bits of the sunset in my mirrors as I made the way around curves and up into the mountains. Such beauty.
Jo that view sounds lovely. Hoping your visit was sweet and memorable.
I was sprinkled at the Methodist church as a child. Upon hearing the gospel and making Christ Lord of my life at 21 I was immerse baptized in the Baptist church in SC. Thankful🙏
Wandering Views 
What’s this?
mumsee
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I already said happy birthday to Kim but I don’t mind saying it again. Happy birthday, Kim!
mumsee
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happy birthday, Kum
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Kim
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Happy birthday, Kim!
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Happy Birthday, Kim.
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Happy birthday to KIm. I think I can smell sea air. 😉
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Happy Birthday, Kim!
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Mumsee had a good question towards the end of yesterday’s thread, if anyone would like to chime in on it here.
Also hoping Michelle replies to the question about her comment from yesterday.
Inquiring minds want to know!
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From Ligonier on administering the sacraments (including baptism):
Though the biblical evidence is not overwhelming, it seems best to conclude that only ordained people have the authority to administer the sacraments.
https://learn.ligonier.org/qas/who-can-administer-the-sacraments
When we have no ordained minister present on a Sunday (if our pastor is out and there not another in the congregation) we don’t observe communion.
On baptism, yes, one baptism. We never require someone to be “re-baptized” if they were baptized in a Christian (including Roman Catholic) church.
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Also from the Ligonier link above @6:10:
~ Luther was paralyzed by fear when he sought to administer the Lord’s Supper for the first time. Baptism is too important to do at a party in someone’s swimming pool. It belongs under the rule and supervision of the church. The confession, following the church practice through the ages, says that the sacraments are to be administered by those who are in positions of ordained authority, the lawfully ordained ministers of the Word. ~
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Happy Birthday Kim❣️🎂
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WHY was he baptized by immersion? He felt convicted that he should do so.
Our son isn’t a pastor, he’s an elder and was assisting the pastor.
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Interesting story about infant baptism–or at least the sprinkling version of it (all our children were baptized as infants–whether we were in a liturgical church at the time or not).
I think I have this correct. Feel free to check it out and correct me.
In the first 400 or so years of the church after Jesus’ death, when someone became a Christian, they were baptized in a mitvah bath–and thus went into and under the water.
Men were baptized in the male mitvahs and women in the female mitvahs.
After Constantine’s conversion in the 4th century, the church became an “organ” of the government.
Those who became Christians still were baptized in the mitvah, but the ruling men recognized this required female deacons.
Those in power didn’t want women involved in church leadership, so they changed the baptismal requirements into the “sprinkling” aspect. This way they did not need women to baptize other women in the mitvah.
Enjoy the argument, er, discussion. 🙂
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Some church denominations require baptism by immersion. Because of our military life, I’ve attended 18 churches/multiple denominations over the last 54 years.
Some were liturgical (and thus were content with sprinkling over a font). Others were not (and insisted members be baptized by immersion).
As noted yesterday, I got tired of explaining I believed my infant baptism was sufficient. When my ten-year-old asked to be baptized by immersion at the Calvary Chapel we attended at the time, we discussed it and decided if that was on his heart to do so, we should allow it.
I didn’t want to complicate his understanding of his God by explaining my reasoning.
But, then I decided to join him and be baptized in a local lake with a group of others. It made the leadership feel better–and we are subject to the leadership in our church–and that would take the argument off the table in the future.
Which is has. No one ever asked me about how I was baptized, as I noted yesterday, until the mega-church in Louisville where I spoke in 2023 required it.
I realize that hundreds of years ago AntiBaptists were burned at the stake for confronting a similiar situation and refusing to be rebaptized.
I lean on “For freedom Christ has set me free, stand therefore no longer under the yoke of slavery.”
God knows my heart and soul.
That’s sufficient for me–just as one baptism would have been as well.
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Good explanations, Michelle, thanks.
mumsee
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Churches have developed disagreements on baptism modes, which is unfortunate (and trying to read into what isn’t there in the Scriptures). It’s the cleansing aspect of the sacrament that is important. So whether dipped, immersed, poured or sprinkled, I’d say it all “counts” as one’s baptism into the faith.
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And the thief on the cross, of course, was not baptized at all (as far as we know). But baptism is the norm in entering the faith.
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Acts 1:5.
mumsee
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On the baptism, I was baptized at confirmation in a Presbyterian church at age twelve. I was not a true believer at that age. As an adult I had a ‘Believer’s Baptism’ in the Southern Baptist church I wanted to join. It was by immersion which I was happy to do as a way of following the example of Jesus who was baptized in the Jordan. I had wanted to be baptized in the Jordan, but the baptismal pool in the church sanctuary was a suitable substitute. A Believer’s Baptism made sense to me given my background, and it met the requirements of church membership. I don’t have expectation that others will understand or approve of my second baptism. I personally don’t believe the first one counted, but I am not God. Please don’t judge me if you think I am wrong about this. I do not offer my explanation as a temptation to judge.
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Janice – I have been baptized twice as well. The first time was when I attended a Baptist church with a friend and her family when I was 15. But I don’t know if I was truly saved at that time, because I walked away from the faith after a little while. Upon either coming back or being truly saved (which I think was the case), I felt the Holy Spirit nudging me to be baptized “for real,” and I obeyed.
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I don’t think anybody is judging, I think we are discussing and trying to get a better understanding of God we all have perspectives and those can help others better understand.
husband was sprinkled in the Methodist church early on but was immersed so he could be a Baptist member. It happens a lot. Others were baptized before believing and baptized when they come to faith. It happens a lot.
mumsee
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I think that I may have had both, but my family did not go to church so there wasn’t a recollection of anything from when I was an infant.
But when I was in college I came to Christ. Then later I attended the baptism of a friend where everything was clearly explained. So the next month I was baptized.
Jo
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Flew from Portland to Sacramento today. On the way home I watched bits of the sunset in my mirrors as I made the way around curves and up into the mountains. Such beauty.
Jo
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Jo that view sounds lovely. Hoping your visit was sweet and memorable.
I was sprinkled at the Methodist church as a child. Upon hearing the gospel and making Christ Lord of my life at 21 I was immerse baptized in the Baptist church in SC. Thankful🙏
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And that is a breathtaking photo up there Janice!!!❣️
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