Good morning. I hope all in the path of the hurricane are safe this morning. I am keeping you in prayer. We will get to eighty or so. It is always interesting to see the record years for temperatures and precipitation. It is especially fun to see those from the 1800’s.
Thank you for praying, Kathaleena. It is scary. The last like this was the storm Irma, maybe in 2017, that knocked our power out. Art fell on the stairs in the dark and fractured his knee, and now we know, his ankle, too. He considers this recent trouble to be a warning to be more careful.
The storm late yesterday knocked down trees. It was notceven related to Helene.
Landslides are predicted for the mountains north of us. The weather guy said he’d never heard of that in Georgia.
We went to Sam’s and got a lot of C and D batteries.
Good morning, all. A beautiful day in the neighborhood. A bit of a windstorm last night. And Moscow had quite a dust storm with around thirty thousand without power. Have not heard if it is restored yet.
I have not read that, Mumsee, but all else I have read by Metaxas is excellent. I love his book on Miracles. Your dad would probably appreciate having the Miracles book read to him as would the younger folks at the Nest.
OK, ducking — from your local contrarian (and from a review – and caution – of the Metaxas book in a review written by Steve Bateman (ThM, Dallas Theological Seminary; DMin, Reformed Theological Seminary), senior pastor of First Bible Church in North Alabama for over 30 years):
~ … If a pastor faithfully preaches the Word—wisely tackling tough issues from the horror of abortion to the incoherence of transgenderism to the pitfalls of nationalism—but doesn’t publicly engage in partisan politics the way Metaxas calls for, does that pastor really lack courage?
As chief counsel for President Richard Nixon, Charles Colson witnessed Nixon’s masterful skill in manipulating leaders, including evangelicals, for political ends. He reflected,
“Ironically, none were more compliant than the religious leaders. Of all the people, they should have been the most aware of the sinful nature of man and the least overwhelmed by pomp and protocol. But theological knowledge sometimes wilts in the face of worldly power.”
Yes, of all people, they should have been most aware. Since our nation’s inception, a common and effective strategy on both left and right has been to praise and pressure American pastors into serving a partisan political agenda. Letter to the American Church is swept up in that strategy. In many evangelical churches, it will require great pastoral courage to say so.
I would look at the Metaxax piece and see how it lines up with what God presents in the Bible as His concerns and desires, whet He considers right and wrong.
From what I recall, I think Metaxax was highly affected by what He saw in writing his book on Bonhoffer and the response of the majority of German pastors. I think he does not want to see a repeat of that happening here. I have not read it so just would be looking to see if it is indeed telling pastors to go partisan politics or is it saying they better line up and preach what God says is truth, the hard truth to speak in politically charged times. The truth about abortion, the truth about gender, the truth about race and being “woke”, etc. Those truths of God do seem to align with one party more than the other right now, but maybe that is secondary to the main point Metaxax is making. Glad to hear Mumsee’ thoughts after she reads it. She does not have an agenda, but wants to know God’s truth in the matter the best she can discern is my guess.
I have sat under the teaching of a black pastor who has a degree from DTS. I was shocked to find out how woke he was and how he totally supported and wanted people to vote the woke way in the last election.
From the review if this helps clarify his issues with the book (and to be fair, it sounds as if Metaxas has become more political and (sometimes) more partisan in more recent years — a drift I think some of us have seen in the more recent and contentious political atmosphere).
~ Letter urges Christians to fight against Marxist ideology, abortion, same-sex marriage, transgenderism, critical race theory, Black Lives Matter, and government policies that threaten religious liberty. These are indeed credible threats to the church in America. Metaxas wants to motivate pastors to raise their voices and lead their members to political activism (100). …
… While Metaxas often acknowledges the influence of the “great Charles Colson” (6, 43), he seems to reject the counsel of Colson, who wrote,
‘If we have learned anything in recent decades, it is that we should not roll out heavy-handed political movements that recklessly toss around God-and-country clichés and scare off our secular neighbors. Our goal is not to grab power and impose our views. Instead, we should act through principled persuasion and responsible participation.’ …
… Metaxas’s understandable admiration for Bonhoeffer is palpable, but there’s a fine line between biography and hagiography. We measure pastoral ministry by the standards of the Chief Shepherd and the apostles, not an evangelical version of a dead Lutheran pastor. Metaxas doesn’t hesitate to call out pastors he judges to be weak, timid, cowardly, or so “theologically fussy” (44) that they don’t join his movement. Men like Tim Keller, Alistair Begg, John Piper, and John MacArthur are not Bonhoeffer-ish enough for Metaxas (11, 44).
… In a recent tweet, Metaxas expressed approval for this rhetorical question: “What if Rick Warren, Andy Stanley, and Tim Keller are Hitler’s favorite kinds of pastors?” This is exactly the kind of slander and careless speech that fuels the fracturing of American evangelicalism. …
… Historically, we evangelicals were known for our theological agreement on the authority of the Bible, the centrality of the cross, the necessity of conversion, and the priority of working together for the global advance of a culture-shaping gospel. When we disagreed, we were to follow biblical protocol to resolve our conflicts and to maintain our witness before an unbelieving world. Now we’re widely known as a powerful voting bloc to be courted, often imitating our political heroes and attacking one another on Twitter. … ~
Mumsee, I may have posted a link to it at some point even though I had not read it. I sometimes post links if I think someone here might be interested in something.
Art’s fractures were from the fall during the storm in 2017, but recently he had pain at those areas of the old fractures. They are not actively healing fractures, thankfully.
This past weekend, a couple of young people, whose parents I know, were married. I thought it was kind of funny – and cool! – that the initials of their first names are A and Z.
I do get the position of that review and the concerns, Dj. Just thankful that Mumsee is taking the time to read the small book and form her own ideas about it. It will be interesting if she chooses to share her thoughts. It’s certainly allowable for people here to have varying thoughts about the works and writings of Metaxax.
I once had a pastor who said you can’t legislate morality. True, but does that mean pastors are off the hook of preaching about the controversial things that go against cultural norms of a time so as to not rock the boat or influence congragant’s voting? Or call people to a higher standard? A lot of pastors shirk their duties trying to steer clear of politics or anything remotely related for fear of offense and being labeled too political..
We’ve never handed out those “church voter guides” either, we leave it to people to think and decide for themselves how to vote. Also have never had political candidates speak at the church, even on off-night gatherings.
Voter guides can be a good guide to see who aligns with your values. I see nothing wrong with a church giving them out.
Megan Basham’s book also sounds like an interesting read. It sounds similar.
It is interesting to read about all the ministers who helped in the beginning of our governmental system. One wonders how things would have been different if they had all refused.
My pastor has spoken about abortion and probably marriage being one man, one woman, etc., but he never speaks of political parties or he sometimes says how people should vote their Biblical values. He never endorses candidates and would not let a local candidate host a forum at tgechurch.He does encourage candidates to visit church.
I am slowly reading Megan Basham’s book Kathaleena. Even though Warren Cole Smith thinks it to be awful I disagree with him wholeheartedly. I find it to be a well researched/documented book and carefully written.
mumsee @9:14, our church did have issues with the mandates but also respected those members who chose to follow them and made efforts to accommodate (i.e. live-streaming, setting up an outdoor section, etc.).
I’d have issues with “voter guides” so appreciate our church does not participate in anything that overtly political.
Missionaries also had to think about the different spheres of influence. I am sure many still have to do so. I wonder if God’s people refused to speak up about little girls having their feet bound or widows throwing themselves (willingly or unwillingly) on their husband’s funeral pyres? If such things came up for a vote, would they have urged their people to vote accordingly?
So many things happening in the world today. So many choices during the Nazi era. So many arguments about where each one should have done differently. People like Corrie Ten Boom struggled with so much. Life is so complicated in so many ways. I suppose we can look at our own choices right now in supporting or not supporting candidates.
Our country’s history is rife with ministers joining the fray. Signers of the Constitution would surely be condemned in some areas of Christendom these days.
Wandering Views 
Good morning. I hope all in the path of the hurricane are safe this morning. I am keeping you in prayer. We will get to eighty or so. It is always interesting to see the record years for temperatures and precipitation. It is especially fun to see those from the 1800’s.
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Thank you for praying, Kathaleena. It is scary. The last like this was the storm Irma, maybe in 2017, that knocked our power out. Art fell on the stairs in the dark and fractured his knee, and now we know, his ankle, too. He considers this recent trouble to be a warning to be more careful.
The storm late yesterday knocked down trees. It was notceven related to Helene.
Landslides are predicted for the mountains north of us. The weather guy said he’d never heard of that in Georgia.
We went to Sam’s and got a lot of C and D batteries.
All prayers appreciated.
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Good morning, all. A beautiful day in the neighborhood. A bit of a windstorm last night. And Moscow had quite a dust storm with around thirty thousand without power. Have not heard if it is restored yet.
mumsee
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Yikes! That is quite a dust storm.
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I have read in novels about dust storms and they sound awful, but are probably even worse than I could imagine.
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Prayers for those in the path of that hurricane, dust storms, landslides. How’s Kim? Isn’t she right in the path of this oncoming storm?
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Christians living in a hostile culture, some good perspective on how the faith can thrive: (4 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFlzVpcL8q0
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Above is from me 🙂
He also touches on how when Christians have (secular/worldly) power, it doesn’t always turn out so well for the church, from what history teaches us.
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Who told us to read Letter to the American Church? It arrived and started. Looks good.
mumsee
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Brother says power was restored about ten last night.
mumsee
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I have not read that, Mumsee, but all else I have read by Metaxas is excellent. I love his book on Miracles. Your dad would probably appreciate having the Miracles book read to him as would the younger folks at the Nest.
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Today would have been my mother’s 100th birthday♡
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Kim says all is well where they are, which is out of the direct path (I had no clue, not all that familiar with Florida!)
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OK, ducking — from your local contrarian (and from a review – and caution – of the Metaxas book in a review written by Steve Bateman (ThM, Dallas Theological Seminary; DMin, Reformed Theological Seminary), senior pastor of First Bible Church in North Alabama for over 30 years):
~ … If a pastor faithfully preaches the Word—wisely tackling tough issues from the horror of abortion to the incoherence of transgenderism to the pitfalls of nationalism—but doesn’t publicly engage in partisan politics the way Metaxas calls for, does that pastor really lack courage?
As chief counsel for President Richard Nixon, Charles Colson witnessed Nixon’s masterful skill in manipulating leaders, including evangelicals, for political ends. He reflected,
“Ironically, none were more compliant than the religious leaders. Of all the people, they should have been the most aware of the sinful nature of man and the least overwhelmed by pomp and protocol. But theological knowledge sometimes wilts in the face of worldly power.”
Yes, of all people, they should have been most aware. Since our nation’s inception, a common and effective strategy on both left and right has been to praise and pressure American pastors into serving a partisan political agenda. Letter to the American Church is swept up in that strategy. In many evangelical churches, it will require great pastoral courage to say so.
Pastors, preach the Word and don’t get played.
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/reviews/letter-american-church-eric-metaxas/
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I would look at the Metaxax piece and see how it lines up with what God presents in the Bible as His concerns and desires, whet He considers right and wrong.
From what I recall, I think Metaxax was highly affected by what He saw in writing his book on Bonhoffer and the response of the majority of German pastors. I think he does not want to see a repeat of that happening here. I have not read it so just would be looking to see if it is indeed telling pastors to go partisan politics or is it saying they better line up and preach what God says is truth, the hard truth to speak in politically charged times. The truth about abortion, the truth about gender, the truth about race and being “woke”, etc. Those truths of God do seem to align with one party more than the other right now, but maybe that is secondary to the main point Metaxax is making. Glad to hear Mumsee’ thoughts after she reads it. She does not have an agenda, but wants to know God’s truth in the matter the best she can discern is my guess.
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I have sat under the teaching of a black pastor who has a degree from DTS. I was shocked to find out how woke he was and how he totally supported and wanted people to vote the woke way in the last election.
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It’s funny that some on the left talk about being “woke” and some on the right are urging people to “Wake up!” 😀
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the review does address some concerns with Metaxas’ treatment of Bonhoeffer which is heard discussed before when the book came out
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*I’ve heard discussed
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thumb typing on the phone with one somewhat still wacky thumb
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so who recommended it?
mumsee
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Wait. You type with your thumbs? I think not, I have enough challenges.
mumsee
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Who recommended what?
And who’s on first?
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From the review if this helps clarify his issues with the book (and to be fair, it sounds as if Metaxas has become more political and (sometimes) more partisan in more recent years — a drift I think some of us have seen in the more recent and contentious political atmosphere).
~ Letter urges Christians to fight against Marxist ideology, abortion, same-sex marriage, transgenderism, critical race theory, Black Lives Matter, and government policies that threaten religious liberty. These are indeed credible threats to the church in America. Metaxas wants to motivate pastors to raise their voices and lead their members to political activism (100). …
… While Metaxas often acknowledges the influence of the “great Charles Colson” (6, 43), he seems to reject the counsel of Colson, who wrote,
‘If we have learned anything in recent decades, it is that we should not roll out heavy-handed political movements that recklessly toss around God-and-country clichés and scare off our secular neighbors. Our goal is not to grab power and impose our views. Instead, we should act through principled persuasion and responsible participation.’ …
… Metaxas’s understandable admiration for Bonhoeffer is palpable, but there’s a fine line between biography and hagiography. We measure pastoral ministry by the standards of the Chief Shepherd and the apostles, not an evangelical version of a dead Lutheran pastor. Metaxas doesn’t hesitate to call out pastors he judges to be weak, timid, cowardly, or so “theologically fussy” (44) that they don’t join his movement. Men like Tim Keller, Alistair Begg, John Piper, and John MacArthur are not Bonhoeffer-ish enough for Metaxas (11, 44).
… In a recent tweet, Metaxas expressed approval for this rhetorical question: “What if Rick Warren, Andy Stanley, and Tim Keller are Hitler’s favorite kinds of pastors?” This is exactly the kind of slander and careless speech that fuels the fracturing of American evangelicalism. …
… Historically, we evangelicals were known for our theological agreement on the authority of the Bible, the centrality of the cross, the necessity of conversion, and the priority of working together for the global advance of a culture-shaping gospel. When we disagreed, we were to follow biblical protocol to resolve our conflicts and to maintain our witness before an unbelieving world. Now we’re widely known as a powerful voting bloc to be courted, often imitating our political heroes and attacking one another on Twitter. … ~
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Janice I am praying for you and Art. How awful to have fallen resulting in fractures! Ain’t nobody got time for that mess! May his healing be quick!
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who recommended I read letter to the American church?
mumsee
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Mumsee, I may have posted a link to it at some point even though I had not read it. I sometimes post links if I think someone here might be interested in something.
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Art’s fractures were from the fall during the storm in 2017, but recently he had pain at those areas of the old fractures. They are not actively healing fractures, thankfully.
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Poor mumsee, can’t find the book recommendation answer?
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This past weekend, a couple of young people, whose parents I know, were married. I thought it was kind of funny – and cool! – that the initials of their first names are A and Z.
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I suppose the archives about a week or two ago. Maybe three. But no time. I have two grandchildren keeping me hopping.
mumsee
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I do get the position of that review and the concerns, Dj. Just thankful that Mumsee is taking the time to read the small book and form her own ideas about it. It will be interesting if she chooses to share her thoughts. It’s certainly allowable for people here to have varying thoughts about the works and writings of Metaxax.
I once had a pastor who said you can’t legislate morality. True, but does that mean pastors are off the hook of preaching about the controversial things that go against cultural norms of a time so as to not rock the boat or influence congragant’s voting? Or call people to a higher standard? A lot of pastors shirk their duties trying to steer clear of politics or anything remotely related for fear of offense and being labeled too political..
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Is it a book that Debra would have suggested?
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I’d say nearly all laws are grounded in morality.
Our pastor will preach about current issues, never about party politics or candidates (ever).
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We’ve never handed out those “church voter guides” either, we leave it to people to think and decide for themselves how to vote. Also have never had political candidates speak at the church, even on off-night gatherings.
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DJ, as I recall, your church stood against Covid restrictions while applying common sense precautions.
mumsee
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Voter guides can be a good guide to see who aligns with your values. I see nothing wrong with a church giving them out.
Megan Basham’s book also sounds like an interesting read. It sounds similar.
It is interesting to read about all the ministers who helped in the beginning of our governmental system. One wonders how things would have been different if they had all refused.
It is a fine line for a pastor to walk.
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My pastor has spoken about abortion and probably marriage being one man, one woman, etc., but he never speaks of political parties or he sometimes says how people should vote their Biblical values. He never endorses candidates and would not let a local candidate host a forum at tgechurch.He does encourage candidates to visit church.
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One of the criticisms of Megan Basham’s book is that she took some quotes pretty far out of context.
It’s good to know what the “cons” (as in “pros and cons”) are when reading a book, especially those on important subjects as these.
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oops Janice…missed the part of it being in 2017!😊
I am slowly reading Megan Basham’s book Kathaleena. Even though Warren Cole Smith thinks it to be awful I disagree with him wholeheartedly. I find it to be a well researched/documented book and carefully written.
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mumsee @9:14, our church did have issues with the mandates but also respected those members who chose to follow them and made efforts to accommodate (i.e. live-streaming, setting up an outdoor section, etc.).
I’d have issues with “voter guides” so appreciate our church does not participate in anything that overtly political.
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Our country was established with much wisdom that recognized the different spheres of influence.
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Rain, rain, rain and more rain. Power went out just after I heated water in the microwave for coffee. Thanks, God, for that little gift!😀
So I am in the dark drinking coffee and listening to the wind blasts beginning. It has not gotten bad until now.
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Missionaries also had to think about the different spheres of influence. I am sure many still have to do so. I wonder if God’s people refused to speak up about little girls having their feet bound or widows throwing themselves (willingly or unwillingly) on their husband’s funeral pyres? If such things came up for a vote, would they have urged their people to vote accordingly?
So many things happening in the world today. So many choices during the Nazi era. So many arguments about where each one should have done differently. People like Corrie Ten Boom struggled with so much. Life is so complicated in so many ways. I suppose we can look at our own choices right now in supporting or not supporting candidates.
Our country’s history is rife with ministers joining the fray. Signers of the Constitution would surely be condemned in some areas of Christendom these days.
Authors are brave to wade into the discussion.
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