Walmart is continuing to provide LGBT products as part of Pride Month, the firm said on Wednesday amid a consumer backlash against multiple brands aligning with such ideologies.
“We haven’t changed anything in our assortment,” Latriece Watkins, Walmart’s chief merchandising officer, said on May 31, according to Reuters. Watkins’ statement comes following a backlash against Target after the retailer launched LGBT items, including some targeted at kids. In late May, Target announced that it was removing some of the controversial items and insisted there were “threats” facing the company’s team members. But things are different with Walmart, Watkins said.
“When we think about security … we have not done anything in particular differently related to security in our stores,” he added.
Walmart has been offering Pride products at thousands of its stores across the United States. The company has released T-shirts with slogans like “Gay AF,” “Woke Up Gay Again,” and “Some People Are Gay.” The retailer also has introduced onesies for infants with slogans like “I Love My 2 Moms” and “Proud Love.”
As part of its “Pride & Joy” collection, Walmart is offering LGBT-friendly trinkets and accessories like pins, flags, tote bags, and more.
A controversial product being offered by Walmart is a “breathable” chest binder aimed at “trans, lesbian, and tomboys.” The binder, offered online, features pictures of a young girl modeling the product.
Chest binders are used by girls to compress their breasts in order to create a masculine appearance.
“We’ve backed #Target into a corner for selling #Pride merch in the children’s section. Now we go for #Walmart. These woke companies need to know that enough is enough. Not ONE MORE [expletive] DAY. They’re NOT GETTING our kids,” journalist Breck Worsham said in a May 24 tweet.
Walmart has an “inclusive sourcing” program for LGBT groups. Walmart’s supplier inclusion initiative offers companies, owned and operated by members of LGBT and other identities like ethnic and racial minorities, “the opportunity to work with us while growing their business,” according to Walmart’s July 2022 ESG report.
“For our U.S. businesses, we sourced more than $13.3 billion in goods and services from approximately 2,600 diverse suppliers.”
In 2021, Walmart donated $500,000 to PFLAG, the largest organization in the United States that advocates for LGBT and their families.
PFLAG was recently in the news after its President Tristan Coolman threatened to classify York Catholic District School Board (YCDSB) as “unsafe for the LGBTQ2IA+ community” in April. The threat came after the board held a meeting that included a delegation of parents who were against the YCDSB flying a pride flag.
Calling the meeting “deeply disturbing,” Coolman called the parent delegation who stood against the pride flag as “discriminatory and bigoted” while also criticizing the board for allowing them.
ESG principles make companies look beyond making market demand and profits, and focus on taking actions related to issues like climate change, racism, and sexual identity, among others. It is adopted by firms mainly to appease large investors like BlackRock that use these metrics to evaluate whether to invest or not.
In a Sept. 16 interview with EpochTV’s “Crossroads” program, Andy Puzder, a visiting fellow at The Heritage Foundation, pointed out that while capitalism focuses on enhancing investor returns, ESG focuses on “accomplishing leftist political agenda.”
A group of “corporate elites” at financial firms such as BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard—which together control more than $20 trillion worth of investments—are “imposing their will” on the managers of companies that they are invested in.
Received the book “Blinded by Might” today from Amazon — written in 2000 it seems to hold some good advice for Christians today. Written by Cal Thomas and Ed Dobson, from the back cover notes:
I’m sorry, I switch keyboards and they have different “finger stretches” so I wind up posting before I mean to!
so, continuing …
~ “What went wrong with the religious right and what we can do about it today”
“Two decades after conservative Christians charged into the political arena, bringing new voters and millions of dollars with them in hopes of transforming the culture through political power, it must now be acknowledged that we have failed.” — Thomas
” ‘Blinded by Might’ takes you inside the early and heady days of the Moral Majority, tracing its well-intentioned but fatally flawed battle plan aimed at reversing America’s slide into a moral wasteland. It shows how groups like the Christian Coalition, which stepped in when the Moral Majority ran out of steam, have not changed, cannot change, and will not change the trajectory of American culture. Written by two conservative Christians who worked closely with Jerry Falwell in the 1980s …
“The Christian Coalition reduces the Christian Faith to a series of political positions, and that is the equivalent of theological heresy.” — Ed Dobson
“As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
I remember way back when I was upset about removal of the Ten Commandments from certain government buildings, and my then more liberal pastor said simply, “You can’t legislate morality.” I felt sad and mixed feelings when he said that.
It seems in the small town/city that my church is in that the city wants to legislate their brand of morality in the city ordinance. Ironic that my former liberal pastor happens to live in the city limits there.😃 The names change, but the game’s the same. It is just upside down from how it used to be. I imagine he is happy with legislating morality from the other point of view.
Culture drives much of this, not government. When the culture strays, the laws will stray as well.
So the culture seems to be the real stumbling block we try to battle with every election. I haven’t read this book yet, but it appears their argument for “what do we do now?” centers on the church being the church within its neighborhoods and cities. Sure we vote and have preferences for who lines up most with the values we profess. But it seems not to be “The Answer.”
Interesting to me that we’ve tried all this before and it didn’t turn out so well (“Moral Majority”).
The culture continued to decline.
But this is hardly a new circumstance for believers.
So all government reflects “morality” — but the morality it tends to reflect is driven by the popular culture (what’s acceptable, what’s not) that informs it.
BlackRock is evil to the core? I didn’t know AJ joined the left. BlackRock is one of the biggest bogeymen for the left. Katie Porter and Elizabeth Warren have both demanded greater accountability and regulation of BlackRock and its ilk. Many left wing economists blame BlackRock for a continual real estate bubble leading to obscene shelter costs. George Soros declared BlackRock’s Chinese investment as dangerous to western security and democracy.
ESG and other ethical investment strategies are “green washing”. They give an investment firm good PR while doing very little for the environment and other ethical issues. For the most part, ESG placate liberal consciences so they can up their 401K without thinking of the moral implications. Given their use of slave labour in China, I don’t think BlackRock gives ESG any serious thought. Those of us on the left don’t take it seriously.
Capitalism is an amoral force that will serve any market or demographic for a profit. There’s a large market for PRIDE merchandise, so I’m not surprised to see Walmart chasing a few dollars.
As an old school socialist I believe you should regulate the economy not morality. Take care of the economic issues and moral problems should decrease. But economic regulation is hard work and goes against 40 years of neo-con propaganda so some socialists take the easy win of advocating social change, hoping economic change will follow.
Morality can’t and shouldn’t be legislated. Alievate economic insecurity and people tend to be more tolerant of their fellow humanity. During economic insecurity, its easy for the powers to be to create scapegoats which both the Democrats and Republicans engage in.
I agree, stores will stock what sells, they are neutral when it comes to that (other than making money, of course). That’s what they do, and that’s understandable. With the Pride merchandise, I think that’s become pretty common place without much noticeable objection for the past few years — until now when the stores suddenly find themselves stuck in the middle with boycotts threatened from one side and demands to keep and support the status quo on the other.
Why should we give any value to what the “new moral majority” clan have to say?
And yes, Thomas is among them.
This is just stupid.
“As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
So oh well, let Biden and the pervs run the country into the ground with their culture garbage while we stand around and pretend Rome isn’t burning.
That’s not a solution to the politics or the cultural issues facing us. It’s just more pearl clutching and hand wringing. No thanks.
God expects us to stand for what is right, be it cultural or political, and to stand for those victimized by either.
Is their anything you guys will stand for? Because I’m not seeing it.
When he said that laws that didn’t include health of the mother provisions would be struck down and that it was stupid to not include them, some on the right declared he was saying he was pro-abortion.
That was nonsense, and he was correct.
Down in flames.
“Oklahoma Supreme Court strikes down two anti-abortion laws, citing maternal health
The court cited its previous finding of “a limited right to an abortion” under the Oklahoma Constitution to protect maternal life, but one dissenter argued one of the stricken laws provided the required exception for maternal life.”
AJ, their points were borne of personal experience from their involvement in an earlier era of when the church became so politically-obsessed. They’ve gained some wisdom from that.
Politics tend to corrupt the church; the church’s involvement in politics will not bring holiness to politics.
it seems we’re going headlong down that path again in some corners.
We are to be involved and maintain our values, share them and stand on them.
But if we become so obsessed with the politics around us — and that almost becomes our religion or an idol — then we’re in for some genuine disappointment.
And the distraction of that can genuinely harm and divide the body of believers.
IMO, voting for the party which supports Biblical values is not obsessing over politics. But some people want to label it that way. If both parties happened to reform and better match Biblical values then the choice would be much harder.
Janice – I don’t think that DJ is saying that choosing to vote for Biblical values is considered obsessing over politics, but that thinking that doing so is THE answer, and denigrating any believer who does not vote “the right way”.
But Christians have been supporting the Republican party for at least 40 years now, and our culture has not changed for the better. (Not to say, of course, that voting for Democrats would have helped.)
Janice sadly when your Pastor said we cannot legislate morality he sort of had it right….Government is legislating “immorality “. Homosexuality, abortion, laws taking away rights of parents concerning their very own children and their health. And very soon it would seem if we as followers of Christ speak a view based on scripture and opposed to “their” views we will pay a price ….liberal/democrats are leading the way….God help us…
“As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
Please note that it is not saying that we should not vote, but it is saying that our “most potent influence” is how we live our lives as believers in our own little spheres of influence. And that is Biblical. Jesus and the epistles say much more about how we live out our lives and treat others than anything about politics or our leaders, other than to pray for them.
If the culture is changed (and I pray often that it will be), it will be because of a move of God amongst our people, and influenced by how we treat others and live our lives.
But immorality can and should??? Because that is definitely happening. Remember when the White house was lighted up in technicolor celebrating homosexuals!!! Obama did that as a slap in the face to anyone opposed!. Evil then and evil now….
Thanks, Kizzie, you explained what I didn’t very well. @8:43, 8:54
It’s seeing politics as “The Answer” to what ails the world or our nation. It’s not.
We are blessed to live in a nation where participation in our government is available to us. And where we can follow our conscience and not be “ruled over” by a particular party.
We are free to participate in the public square but should always remember to Whom we are accountable when we do so.
I know believers who do not agree on politics. But that is not what joins us together as brothers and sisters. Cal Thomas has some pretty solid conservative credentials, I’d pause before being too critical of him as a person and fellow believer in Christ. He was someone who reached out to someone who disagreed with him and shared Christ in the process (and they became close friends). I’d say that’s a pretty good testimony.
He also came to a point where he saw the bigger picture. Perhaps it comes with age, or experience, or with growth, with a softening of the heart — and seeing many elections and politicians come and go and the ups and downs it all brings.
The appearance of the secular landscape is like hills and valleys, we have times when it seems like the nation is on a very good path — and then that flips. And so it goes.
It may flip back again, or it may do a slow turn back — or it may collapse and crash. God only knows. We do what we can do but we don’t put all of our hope and faith in that.
~ “As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.” ~
(And yes, participate in the process in the meantime, just know the reality of how things tend to come to pass in God’s world. His ways are not our ways.)
“Is their anything you guys will stand for? Because I’m not seeing it.”
That is very uncharitable and insulting.
Neither DJ nor I have ever said that we don’t vote or that voting doesn’t matter, although it has been repeatedly insinuated that we have. The last part of that quote explains pretty well what else we stand for: “lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
And yes, that is very biblical.
(Sorry for answering for you, too, DJ. But from our conversations, I think I am pretty correct.)
I did abstain from voting for president in 2016 and 2020. It was a complete aberration for me (and I voted down ticket) but by conscience I could not cast a vote for either Trump or Clinton or Biden. And there were no reasonable third party candidates that I could see.
I hope and pray (and trust!) that in 2024 there will be a candidate I’ll feel clear about. None of them are “perfect,” heaven knows. Some I’ve liked (a lot) more than others.
The point is, I’ve never been overly picky, recognizing that we have essentially 2 choices before us and it will pretty much always be the “lesser of two evils” in this world. Options in 2016 and 2020 simply dipped lower than I could feel even partially clear about.
Since Dj did not vote, I choose to not blame her for the mess our nation is in because her one choice did not determine the outcome of the election. It does no good to blame people for how they chose to vote (or not). I have felt greatly hated in the past for having voted for Trump. I don’t want to treat anyone l
so poirly as I have been treated. And I feel so many assumptions were made about me according to how I voted. Each voter is an individual and is ever more complex than the little boxes people want to put others in.
I have friends and acquaintances who voted for Trump. I was not critical of that, I understood the choice they made. I thought it was wrong when folks criticized others for their convictions to vote for one or the other candidate.
I have a very good friend of many years who voted for Biden. But she took the decision seriously, she spent months “studying” the issues and made her choice. She felt strongly that she must choose one or the other of the main candidates (she’s a registered Republican). She didn’t feel comfortable sitting it out. And she wasn’t comfortable with Trump.
And I made my choice to abstain from that top race altogether. I hope I never have to do that again.
But I’d never criticize someone who made a choice in the voting booth based on their conscience and belief that it was the best choice.
I have never thought that a vote one way or the other, or who gets to be in office, is THE answer, but by simply casting a vote I get lumped in with those who don’t believe in Jesus and the Bible and think, in the flesh, that something besides God is the ultimate authority and decider of what happens. I do my part by voting and praying. God’s light shines brighter in the darkness.
I do feel by allowing the open borders that the playing board is being set up for cheating in some fashion at the poll (if we get another election by God’s mercy and grace). Again some criminal elements hope to swing the election by an illegal method. Yes, that does make me feel righteous anger, but then I think on the book of Esther and know how God can do a quick turnaround if He chooses to set things right. The longer people get away with cheating the more puffed up and prideful they become. And we all know the saying about pride.
The fact is that all laws are based on morality. It is also a fact that laws influence culture. The laws God gave certainly influenced the culture of Israel. Ultimately, they were given to show man’s inability to fully follow the whole of law and find salvation in it. Nevertheless, it changed many, many in that society into an understanding of who God is and who they are.
Natural law or God’s laws have never been honored or obeyed by everyone. The prohibition against murder has often been broken since Cain killed Abel. That has never meant it is foolish to keep the prohibition and punish people who break it. The same is true of many other laws.
Christians are to be light and salt in all arenas and government is no different. Some are called to be actual politicians and the rest are called to be good citizens. In our government that means following the laws (unless they go against God) and voting for our representatives. That is how our government was set up.
Discussions on how our vote most reflects a Christian viewpoint, are valuable. I do agree that we should all be civil. Some people are very blunt. Sarcasm is not forbidden in the bible and can be used without others falling apart. Our own upbringings and personalities affect how we ‘discuss’ things. Male and femaleness also are sometimes in play. Offense can be taken when none is given. There is nothing wrong with pushback either. In fact, it is good, since the other person does need to know when we are offended. We can’t assume everyone is offended or not offended. Accusing people of not being Christian for how they vote is not helpful, IMO. OTOH, using scripture to point out why voting for one or the other is more aligned with scripture is helpful. Reasoning with one another is helpful.
No party will ever be perfectly aligned with God’s laws. However, we have the privilege and responsibility to know what the party platforms stand for. That does take some work, but that is how our system works, whether or not we like it. We all have times when we are so busy with life that we cannot put in the work we need to be well informed. That is different from just shunning the responsibility of citizenship.
Medicine does not ultimately heal anyone. God does. He uses medical personal, hospitals and medicine, however. Government does not ultimately make anyone moral or law-abiding. However, God, himself established government to help us have order and to know right from wrong. Do our laws affect morality or vice-versa? I suggest both are true. Our laws do reflect the downturn in morality. The downturn is impeded or speeded up, in turn, by our laws. Why would I give up the opportunity to influence the laws that are being enacted? Why would I give up voting for the ones who will be the ones writing and enacting our laws? If I think being in some political party makes me right with God, I do have a problem. OTOH, there are some real problems right now with what the Democratic party stands for that I cannot in good conscience stand for. There are fewer in the Republican party. Parties have always evolved and will continue to do so. Would I call one or the other Christian? Well, no.
More and more Christians are being impeded from speaking in the public square in our country. Shortly after the church began, that was true as well. It is also true to various degrees in other countries right now. Christians live in all kinds of situations and are called to walk by the Spirit and have the fruit of the Spirit. It is important to make sure our children realize following a person, party or certain laws does not make anyone a Christian. OTOH, we also teach them to be good citizens, which requires work.
We are called to love even our enemies, but God does not call us to give in to them or affirm them. When we are required to affirm evil, it is being light and salt to refuse. How and to what extent is worth discussion. How that influences our vote is worth discussion.
Sometimes quietly influencing in the background is more helpful, whether in personal relationships or in politics. That was one of the discussions when The Moral Majority was formed. Considering that POV is a good thing. We never see Colson leaving the public square, however. Nor did the martyrs throughout history. Being light and salt has never been without a price.
Sarcasm is a tricky thing, and not many can use it successfully without crossing the line from sarcastic humor to outright offense. Even with sarcasm, we need to have an attitude of grace and love, which proves how tricky it is to use it right. 😀 So much sarcasm these days is angry and mean-spirited, tearing down the other person or people.
A good rule of thumb could be that if your use of sarcasm makes you feel superior, you’re not using it right.
IIRC, most of the sarcasm in the Bible was aimed at fellow “religious” folks, and was rarely (I can only remember off-hand one instance) aimed at an individual.
Sorry for hogging the thread, but another thought came to me. A Mennonite Facebook friend, who used to be a frequent commenter on the WMB with us, has explained why he and other Mennonites (at least of his particular branch) do not believe in voting or other civic duties, such as military service. I may disagree with their stance, but I would not judge their faith by it.
A Christian lady Facebook friend of mine said that she believed that only men should vote. I pointed out how outnumbered Christians are, and that if only the men/husbands voted, that would slash the Christian vote by half. She thought that was a good point. 🙂
When I know that the Ten Commandments say, “Do not murder,” and I have a choice to vote for a party’s candidate that supports laws against abortion, I feel convicted that it would be a sin for me not to vote. If I did not vote, I would feel my action to be in support of abortion. I know everyone does not feel the same conviction, although it is very difficult for me to understand why.
Absolutely Janice. When I know that one party’s candidate speaks of death to unborn or just born children as a “woman’s right” there is no further consideration. The one sitting in the White House along with his party advocates for death, transitioning of children when that child has no concept of what that means, promoting deviant lifestyles, gun grabbing from law abiding citizens, giving ridiculous amounts of our tax dollars to foreign countries, opening the borders for more fraudulent voters and giving them our money while they are at it!!!…..etc…
There is no way on this earth I could have sat out the vote. And anyone who says they have researched the differences between the last candidates and still voted for the Dem candidate had been blinded or just hated the one so much they pulled the wrong lever.
Excellent and biblically clear sermon today on the “Pride” movement (and we might take note that “pride” is a sin).
Sermon spoke about the evil turn this movement is in our society (but not a new one –Rome/Greece, nothing new under the sun). But the scenario we have now includes the pressure to accept and embrace the movement.
Our pastor also spent some time on how we are to respond: “always consider you tone.”
“What must it have felt like for those sinners having dinner with Jesus? (which he’d mentioned earlier in the sermon) – Are you known as someone who truly loves and cares? Do people you know feel like you’ve earned the right to give them counsel? Will people be offended by you or by the truth you speak?”
Walk with wisdom, let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt (Col. 4:5, 6).
At one point he said how easy it is when we’re reviled to “revile in return.” You need to be the “sanest” person in the room, guard your tone.
As for my decision to abstain from voting for president which seems to be generating some judgement here — I don’t need to defend it to you. You also don’t have to defend your votes to me. You had your reasons, I had mine. Maybe we can respect that.
Voting is an individual decision — and often one that requires some wrestling if we’re taking it seriously. The choice of candidates is what it is, often disappointing in this period of our nation?
“And anyone who says they have researched the differences between the last candidates and still voted for the Dem candidate had been blinded or just hated the one so much they pulled the wrong lever.”
And can we even say ” a woman’s rights” when upper level governmental authorities can’t even define what a woman is? Words are quickly losing meaning.
My pastor had a great sermon/message about religious liberty and how it is from God and not from government. The push is still on to pass the “Non-Discrimination” ordinance in the city of Tucker. It does discriminate against people of all faiths as currently worded because of sexual matters. The sexual distinctions of a limited number of citizens seems to be the driving force bent toward discriminating against people who have standards that conflict with thier “religious” or lack of religious standards.
I know and love my friend and I believe she did her own due diligence. I defend her right and her choice to vote the way she did. It’s not my business. Why is it anyone else’s here?
We have an amazing right in our nation and it should always be taken seriously. But in the end, it remains our individual choice and we should respect one another for that.
Well there does seem to be “judgement” and it comes not from just one side . My observations are mine and when engaged with the opposite view I share my thoughts on the matter. My friend , who voted for Biden, hated Trump so much she would have voted for Mickey Mouse had that been the other candidate. … and I might have joined her in that choice
Interesting. Results of a study … (Christianity and Liberalism is an earlier book that covered some of the same territory, written in the 1920s — “but could have been written last Thursday,” as one reviewer said.)
~ Are conservative Christians prone to politicizing their faith, conflating Republican Party politics with biblical fidelity?
Some are, and we could point to plenty of examples. But the bigger, underreported story is that conservative Christians are not uniquely prone to such errors, and in fact, “progressive” Christians outpace their conservative counterparts in succumbing to politicization.
One Faith No Longer
George Yancey and Ashlee Quosigk’s new book, One Faith No Longer: the Transformation of Christianity in Red and Blue America, published by NYU Press earlier this year, has a provocative thesis. Based on new research and extensive interviews, the authors claim current progressive-conservative divisions among Christians in the U.S. (descending from the modernist-fundamentalist battles a century ago) are manifestations of fundamentally different belief systems. …
… 1. Progressive Christians are more likely to establish their identity through politics, while conservative Christians find their identity in theology.
Put simply, progressive Christians see the world through a political lens; conservative Christians, through a religious lens (155). This doesn’t mean that progressives are atheological and conservatives apolitical, but only that the emphasis is wildly disparate between the groups.
For example, progressive Christians emphasize political values relating to social justice issues as they determine who is part of their in-group; they tend to be less concerned about theological agreement. Conservative Christians, however, do not put strong emphasis on political agreement in order to determine if you are one of them—their major concern is whether you agree with them on core theological points . . . . (4)
For this reason, progressive Christians tend to be more accepting of groups that are traditionally politically progressive (such as Muslims and atheists) than they are of conservative Christians. . . . By contrast, conservative Christians tend to reject Muslims and atheists as part of an out-group, but they do not necessarily reject political liberals. . . . (14).
The authors aren’t saying progressives are naturally more political in a general sense. Their point is that progressives’ commitment to humanistic values of social justice leads them to political action as the area of causing social change. And prioritizing political alignment over theological agreement leads to the next surprise.
2. Conservative Christians are more likely than progressive Christians to defy political orthodoxy.
Just look at the last five years to see this point proven. There was a virtual Civil War among conservative evangelicals when Republican Party orthodoxy became synonymous with Donald Trump and a host of positions on immigration, poverty, racial justice, and environmentalism.
Many conservative evangelical leaders pushed back, hard, at great personal cost, against “conservative political ideology” when they saw it in conflict with biblical teaching and values. Even now, you will find theologically conservative evangelicals with major disagreements on political policy.
Such is not the case for progressive Christian leaders. “The only political issue where multiple bloggers differed from the general political progressive orthodoxy was abortion,” the authors found, and even then, the pushback was light, as if designed to highlight the harmlessness of their dissent. Their conclusion:
There are more paths by which conservative Christians defy conservative political ideology than paths by which progressive Christians defy progressive political ideology (74).
Progressive Christians are often more partisan than conservative Christians even as they chastise conservatives for being chained to a particular political ideology. Why is this the case? … ~
____________________
I think what I see on the scales is the weight of perceived sin on the one side of one man, T, and on the other side, the weight of sin created by bad policies from a platform that opposes many things that would align with Biblical standards. I know we are not the perfect judges by any imagining, but in my mind the sin piles jp faster from a bad platform than it does from the sins of a single character that God could choose to remove at any time since He is sovereign. We are still stuck with the platform if a character we don’t care for or even loathe is taken out of the office for whatever reason. That is basically how I am coming to my conclusion and why I don’t undrrstand the weighing scales others are using to make their decisions.
But in the end, it remains our individual choice and we should respect one another for that.
But should we truly “respect” individual choice? I cannot respect a choice that ends a life. Or a choice that affirms sin leading one to be separated from Christ.
To stand on the decision of “pro choice” instead of following truth weighed by scripture is not a path I will walk.
Yes everyone has choices yet we are not required to respect their choices when it is opposed to Godly principles.
I’d say our country is founded on giving the people the the vote.
Is one who doesn’t or didn’t vote for Trump opposed to Scripture and an unfaithful Christian?
How about those who believed Trump was lacking in good character? That things would become worse if he were elected? Is that a good choice for president? Some would decide on that basis, whether you agree with their assessment or not. But I’d say that’s a legitimate issue on which to cast a vote.
Is one who doesn’t or didn’t vote for Trump opposed to Scripture and an unfaithful Christian?
Actually my observations were concerning the platforms of the party and not Trump. And I would say abortion, homosexuality and deceptive actions are opposed to scripture. Trump happened to be the candidate for the party opposed to those important issues. Biden was the candidate for the party endorsing them.
Unfaithful Christian? That is between that voter or non voter and God.
Jesus actually offended many. They crucified him for it, and he said we would also be persecuted. However, I do agree we earn the right to be heard.
My feeling about someone’s vote is that the person is not my servant. It is like many other issues; you may discuss it and then it is up to the person. We can always pray for one another. If the person is God’s servant, we can place them in his hands.
Wandering Views 
Anita Bryant did say in the 1970s that “they will come after our children.” Mr. Sam must be rolling over in his grave…
BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard are evil to the core.
Could someone please tell me which month retailers are planning to celebrate heterosexual month?
https://www.theepochtimes.com/walmart-to-offer-pride-merchandise-despite-controversies_5308270.html
Walmart is continuing to provide LGBT products as part of Pride Month, the firm said on Wednesday amid a consumer backlash against multiple brands aligning with such ideologies.
“We haven’t changed anything in our assortment,” Latriece Watkins, Walmart’s chief merchandising officer, said on May 31, according to Reuters. Watkins’ statement comes following a backlash against Target after the retailer launched LGBT items, including some targeted at kids. In late May, Target announced that it was removing some of the controversial items and insisted there were “threats” facing the company’s team members. But things are different with Walmart, Watkins said.
“When we think about security … we have not done anything in particular differently related to security in our stores,” he added.
Walmart has been offering Pride products at thousands of its stores across the United States. The company has released T-shirts with slogans like “Gay AF,” “Woke Up Gay Again,” and “Some People Are Gay.” The retailer also has introduced onesies for infants with slogans like “I Love My 2 Moms” and “Proud Love.”
As part of its “Pride & Joy” collection, Walmart is offering LGBT-friendly trinkets and accessories like pins, flags, tote bags, and more.
A controversial product being offered by Walmart is a “breathable” chest binder aimed at “trans, lesbian, and tomboys.” The binder, offered online, features pictures of a young girl modeling the product.
Chest binders are used by girls to compress their breasts in order to create a masculine appearance.
“We’ve backed #Target into a corner for selling #Pride merch in the children’s section. Now we go for #Walmart. These woke companies need to know that enough is enough. Not ONE MORE [expletive] DAY. They’re NOT GETTING our kids,” journalist Breck Worsham said in a May 24 tweet.
Walmart has an “inclusive sourcing” program for LGBT groups. Walmart’s supplier inclusion initiative offers companies, owned and operated by members of LGBT and other identities like ethnic and racial minorities, “the opportunity to work with us while growing their business,” according to Walmart’s July 2022 ESG report.
“For our U.S. businesses, we sourced more than $13.3 billion in goods and services from approximately 2,600 diverse suppliers.”
In 2021, Walmart donated $500,000 to PFLAG, the largest organization in the United States that advocates for LGBT and their families.
PFLAG was recently in the news after its President Tristan Coolman threatened to classify York Catholic District School Board (YCDSB) as “unsafe for the LGBTQ2IA+ community” in April. The threat came after the board held a meeting that included a delegation of parents who were against the YCDSB flying a pride flag.
Calling the meeting “deeply disturbing,” Coolman called the parent delegation who stood against the pride flag as “discriminatory and bigoted” while also criticizing the board for allowing them.
ESG principles make companies look beyond making market demand and profits, and focus on taking actions related to issues like climate change, racism, and sexual identity, among others. It is adopted by firms mainly to appease large investors like BlackRock that use these metrics to evaluate whether to invest or not.
In a Sept. 16 interview with EpochTV’s “Crossroads” program, Andy Puzder, a visiting fellow at The Heritage Foundation, pointed out that while capitalism focuses on enhancing investor returns, ESG focuses on “accomplishing leftist political agenda.”
A group of “corporate elites” at financial firms such as BlackRock, State Street, and Vanguard—which together control more than $20 trillion worth of investments—are “imposing their will” on the managers of companies that they are invested in.
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Received the book “Blinded by Might” today from Amazon — written in 2000 it seems to hold some good advice for Christians today. Written by Cal Thomas and Ed Dobson, from the back cover notes:
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I’m sorry, I switch keyboards and they have different “finger stretches” so I wind up posting before I mean to!
so, continuing …
~ “What went wrong with the religious right and what we can do about it today”
“Two decades after conservative Christians charged into the political arena, bringing new voters and millions of dollars with them in hopes of transforming the culture through political power, it must now be acknowledged that we have failed.” — Thomas
” ‘Blinded by Might’ takes you inside the early and heady days of the Moral Majority, tracing its well-intentioned but fatally flawed battle plan aimed at reversing America’s slide into a moral wasteland. It shows how groups like the Christian Coalition, which stepped in when the Moral Majority ran out of steam, have not changed, cannot change, and will not change the trajectory of American culture. Written by two conservative Christians who worked closely with Jerry Falwell in the 1980s …
“The Christian Coalition reduces the Christian Faith to a series of political positions, and that is the equivalent of theological heresy.” — Ed Dobson
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“As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
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I remember way back when I was upset about removal of the Ten Commandments from certain government buildings, and my then more liberal pastor said simply, “You can’t legislate morality.” I felt sad and mixed feelings when he said that.
It seems in the small town/city that my church is in that the city wants to legislate their brand of morality in the city ordinance. Ironic that my former liberal pastor happens to live in the city limits there.😃 The names change, but the game’s the same. It is just upside down from how it used to be. I imagine he is happy with legislating morality from the other point of view.
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Culture drives much of this, not government. When the culture strays, the laws will stray as well.
So the culture seems to be the real stumbling block we try to battle with every election. I haven’t read this book yet, but it appears their argument for “what do we do now?” centers on the church being the church within its neighborhoods and cities. Sure we vote and have preferences for who lines up most with the values we profess. But it seems not to be “The Answer.”
Interesting to me that we’ve tried all this before and it didn’t turn out so well (“Moral Majority”).
The culture continued to decline.
But this is hardly a new circumstance for believers.
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Culture is reflected in the government we wind up with (rather than the other way around).
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So all government reflects “morality” — but the morality it tends to reflect is driven by the popular culture (what’s acceptable, what’s not) that informs it.
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BlackRock is evil to the core? I didn’t know AJ joined the left. BlackRock is one of the biggest bogeymen for the left. Katie Porter and Elizabeth Warren have both demanded greater accountability and regulation of BlackRock and its ilk. Many left wing economists blame BlackRock for a continual real estate bubble leading to obscene shelter costs. George Soros declared BlackRock’s Chinese investment as dangerous to western security and democracy.
ESG and other ethical investment strategies are “green washing”. They give an investment firm good PR while doing very little for the environment and other ethical issues. For the most part, ESG placate liberal consciences so they can up their 401K without thinking of the moral implications. Given their use of slave labour in China, I don’t think BlackRock gives ESG any serious thought. Those of us on the left don’t take it seriously.
Capitalism is an amoral force that will serve any market or demographic for a profit. There’s a large market for PRIDE merchandise, so I’m not surprised to see Walmart chasing a few dollars.
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As an old school socialist I believe you should regulate the economy not morality. Take care of the economic issues and moral problems should decrease. But economic regulation is hard work and goes against 40 years of neo-con propaganda so some socialists take the easy win of advocating social change, hoping economic change will follow.
Morality can’t and shouldn’t be legislated. Alievate economic insecurity and people tend to be more tolerant of their fellow humanity. During economic insecurity, its easy for the powers to be to create scapegoats which both the Democrats and Republicans engage in.
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I agree, stores will stock what sells, they are neutral when it comes to that (other than making money, of course). That’s what they do, and that’s understandable. With the Pride merchandise, I think that’s become pretty common place without much noticeable objection for the past few years — until now when the stores suddenly find themselves stuck in the middle with boycotts threatened from one side and demands to keep and support the status quo on the other.
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DJ,
Serious question.
Why should we give any value to what the “new moral majority” clan have to say?
And yes, Thomas is among them.
This is just stupid.
“As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
So oh well, let Biden and the pervs run the country into the ground with their culture garbage while we stand around and pretend Rome isn’t burning.
That’s not a solution to the politics or the cultural issues facing us. It’s just more pearl clutching and hand wringing. No thanks.
God expects us to stand for what is right, be it cultural or political, and to stand for those victimized by either.
Is their anything you guys will stand for? Because I’m not seeing it.
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So Trump was right again.
When he said that laws that didn’t include health of the mother provisions would be struck down and that it was stupid to not include them, some on the right declared he was saying he was pro-abortion.
That was nonsense, and he was correct.
Down in flames.
“Oklahoma Supreme Court strikes down two anti-abortion laws, citing maternal health
The court cited its previous finding of “a limited right to an abortion” under the Oklahoma Constitution to protect maternal life, but one dissenter argued one of the stricken laws provided the required exception for maternal life.”
https://legalinsurrection.com/2023/06/oklahoma-supreme-court-strikes-down-two-anti-abortion-laws-citing-maternal-health/
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AJ, their points were borne of personal experience from their involvement in an earlier era of when the church became so politically-obsessed. They’ve gained some wisdom from that.
Politics tend to corrupt the church; the church’s involvement in politics will not bring holiness to politics.
it seems we’re going headlong down that path again in some corners.
We are to be involved and maintain our values, share them and stand on them.
But if we become so obsessed with the politics around us — and that almost becomes our religion or an idol — then we’re in for some genuine disappointment.
And the distraction of that can genuinely harm and divide the body of believers.
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IMO, voting for the party which supports Biblical values is not obsessing over politics. But some people want to label it that way. If both parties happened to reform and better match Biblical values then the choice would be much harder.
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Janice – I don’t think that DJ is saying that choosing to vote for Biblical values is considered obsessing over politics, but that thinking that doing so is THE answer, and denigrating any believer who does not vote “the right way”.
But Christians have been supporting the Republican party for at least 40 years now, and our culture has not changed for the better. (Not to say, of course, that voting for Democrats would have helped.)
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Janice sadly when your Pastor said we cannot legislate morality he sort of had it right….Government is legislating “immorality “. Homosexuality, abortion, laws taking away rights of parents concerning their very own children and their health. And very soon it would seem if we as followers of Christ speak a view based on scripture and opposed to “their” views we will pay a price ….liberal/democrats are leading the way….God help us…
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AJ – Re: this quote. . .
“As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
Please note that it is not saying that we should not vote, but it is saying that our “most potent influence” is how we live our lives as believers in our own little spheres of influence. And that is Biblical. Jesus and the epistles say much more about how we live out our lives and treat others than anything about politics or our leaders, other than to pray for them.
If the culture is changed (and I pray often that it will be), it will be because of a move of God amongst our people, and influenced by how we treat others and live our lives.
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Morality can’t and shouldn’t be legislated….
But immorality can and should??? Because that is definitely happening. Remember when the White house was lighted up in technicolor celebrating homosexuals!!! Obama did that as a slap in the face to anyone opposed!. Evil then and evil now….
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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65794363
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Thanks, Kizzie, you explained what I didn’t very well. @8:43, 8:54
It’s seeing politics as “The Answer” to what ails the world or our nation. It’s not.
We are blessed to live in a nation where participation in our government is available to us. And where we can follow our conscience and not be “ruled over” by a particular party.
We are free to participate in the public square but should always remember to Whom we are accountable when we do so.
I know believers who do not agree on politics. But that is not what joins us together as brothers and sisters. Cal Thomas has some pretty solid conservative credentials, I’d pause before being too critical of him as a person and fellow believer in Christ. He was someone who reached out to someone who disagreed with him and shared Christ in the process (and they became close friends). I’d say that’s a pretty good testimony.
He also came to a point where he saw the bigger picture. Perhaps it comes with age, or experience, or with growth, with a softening of the heart — and seeing many elections and politicians come and go and the ups and downs it all brings.
The appearance of the secular landscape is like hills and valleys, we have times when it seems like the nation is on a very good path — and then that flips. And so it goes.
It may flip back again, or it may do a slow turn back — or it may collapse and crash. God only knows. We do what we can do but we don’t put all of our hope and faith in that.
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And this … :
~ “As Christians, (the authors) insist we must realize that God’s agenda does not rise or fall with political causes; and that we must rediscover our most potent influence is not the ballot booth, but lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.” ~
… is actually a very Biblical statement.
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Yes, it is.
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Yes, God’s way is often the slow way.
But the only true way.
(And yes, participate in the process in the meantime, just know the reality of how things tend to come to pass in God’s world. His ways are not our ways.)
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“Is their anything you guys will stand for? Because I’m not seeing it.”
That is very uncharitable and insulting.
Neither DJ nor I have ever said that we don’t vote or that voting doesn’t matter, although it has been repeatedly insinuated that we have. The last part of that quote explains pretty well what else we stand for: “lives that extend God’s grace in the home, in the workplace, and in all spheres of our culture.”
And yes, that is very biblical.
(Sorry for answering for you, too, DJ. But from our conversations, I think I am pretty correct.)
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I did abstain from voting for president in 2016 and 2020. It was a complete aberration for me (and I voted down ticket) but by conscience I could not cast a vote for either Trump or Clinton or Biden. And there were no reasonable third party candidates that I could see.
I hope and pray (and trust!) that in 2024 there will be a candidate I’ll feel clear about. None of them are “perfect,” heaven knows. Some I’ve liked (a lot) more than others.
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that was me.
The point is, I’ve never been overly picky, recognizing that we have essentially 2 choices before us and it will pretty much always be the “lesser of two evils” in this world. Options in 2016 and 2020 simply dipped lower than I could feel even partially clear about.
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Since Dj did not vote, I choose to not blame her for the mess our nation is in because her one choice did not determine the outcome of the election. It does no good to blame people for how they chose to vote (or not). I have felt greatly hated in the past for having voted for Trump. I don’t want to treat anyone l
so poirly as I have been treated. And I feel so many assumptions were made about me according to how I voted. Each voter is an individual and is ever more complex than the little boxes people want to put others in.
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Sorry my post did not turn out right. With these eyes I should not even attempt to post.
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Is it me or the phone scrambler working overtime?
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I have friends and acquaintances who voted for Trump. I was not critical of that, I understood the choice they made. I thought it was wrong when folks criticized others for their convictions to vote for one or the other candidate.
I have a very good friend of many years who voted for Biden. But she took the decision seriously, she spent months “studying” the issues and made her choice. She felt strongly that she must choose one or the other of the main candidates (she’s a registered Republican). She didn’t feel comfortable sitting it out. And she wasn’t comfortable with Trump.
And I made my choice to abstain from that top race altogether. I hope I never have to do that again.
But I’d never criticize someone who made a choice in the voting booth based on their conscience and belief that it was the best choice.
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I have never thought that a vote one way or the other, or who gets to be in office, is THE answer, but by simply casting a vote I get lumped in with those who don’t believe in Jesus and the Bible and think, in the flesh, that something besides God is the ultimate authority and decider of what happens. I do my part by voting and praying. God’s light shines brighter in the darkness.
I do feel by allowing the open borders that the playing board is being set up for cheating in some fashion at the poll (if we get another election by God’s mercy and grace). Again some criminal elements hope to swing the election by an illegal method. Yes, that does make me feel righteous anger, but then I think on the book of Esther and know how God can do a quick turnaround if He chooses to set things right. The longer people get away with cheating the more puffed up and prideful they become. And we all know the saying about pride.
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The fact is that all laws are based on morality. It is also a fact that laws influence culture. The laws God gave certainly influenced the culture of Israel. Ultimately, they were given to show man’s inability to fully follow the whole of law and find salvation in it. Nevertheless, it changed many, many in that society into an understanding of who God is and who they are.
Natural law or God’s laws have never been honored or obeyed by everyone. The prohibition against murder has often been broken since Cain killed Abel. That has never meant it is foolish to keep the prohibition and punish people who break it. The same is true of many other laws.
Christians are to be light and salt in all arenas and government is no different. Some are called to be actual politicians and the rest are called to be good citizens. In our government that means following the laws (unless they go against God) and voting for our representatives. That is how our government was set up.
Discussions on how our vote most reflects a Christian viewpoint, are valuable. I do agree that we should all be civil. Some people are very blunt. Sarcasm is not forbidden in the bible and can be used without others falling apart. Our own upbringings and personalities affect how we ‘discuss’ things. Male and femaleness also are sometimes in play. Offense can be taken when none is given. There is nothing wrong with pushback either. In fact, it is good, since the other person does need to know when we are offended. We can’t assume everyone is offended or not offended. Accusing people of not being Christian for how they vote is not helpful, IMO. OTOH, using scripture to point out why voting for one or the other is more aligned with scripture is helpful. Reasoning with one another is helpful.
No party will ever be perfectly aligned with God’s laws. However, we have the privilege and responsibility to know what the party platforms stand for. That does take some work, but that is how our system works, whether or not we like it. We all have times when we are so busy with life that we cannot put in the work we need to be well informed. That is different from just shunning the responsibility of citizenship.
Medicine does not ultimately heal anyone. God does. He uses medical personal, hospitals and medicine, however. Government does not ultimately make anyone moral or law-abiding. However, God, himself established government to help us have order and to know right from wrong. Do our laws affect morality or vice-versa? I suggest both are true. Our laws do reflect the downturn in morality. The downturn is impeded or speeded up, in turn, by our laws. Why would I give up the opportunity to influence the laws that are being enacted? Why would I give up voting for the ones who will be the ones writing and enacting our laws? If I think being in some political party makes me right with God, I do have a problem. OTOH, there are some real problems right now with what the Democratic party stands for that I cannot in good conscience stand for. There are fewer in the Republican party. Parties have always evolved and will continue to do so. Would I call one or the other Christian? Well, no.
More and more Christians are being impeded from speaking in the public square in our country. Shortly after the church began, that was true as well. It is also true to various degrees in other countries right now. Christians live in all kinds of situations and are called to walk by the Spirit and have the fruit of the Spirit. It is important to make sure our children realize following a person, party or certain laws does not make anyone a Christian. OTOH, we also teach them to be good citizens, which requires work.
We are called to love even our enemies, but God does not call us to give in to them or affirm them. When we are required to affirm evil, it is being light and salt to refuse. How and to what extent is worth discussion. How that influences our vote is worth discussion.
Sometimes quietly influencing in the background is more helpful, whether in personal relationships or in politics. That was one of the discussions when The Moral Majority was formed. Considering that POV is a good thing. We never see Colson leaving the public square, however. Nor did the martyrs throughout history. Being light and salt has never been without a price.
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Amen Kathaleena and I very much appreciate your words… which bear witness to weighing them carefully ❣️
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Janice – To be clear, I was not referring to you when I said that some seem to think that voting and having the right political views are THE answer.
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Forgot to add that I do not look down on those who voted for Trump. I have some dear friends who did so and will again.
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Very thoughtful post, Kathaleena.
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Sarcasm is a tricky thing, and not many can use it successfully without crossing the line from sarcastic humor to outright offense. Even with sarcasm, we need to have an attitude of grace and love, which proves how tricky it is to use it right. 😀 So much sarcasm these days is angry and mean-spirited, tearing down the other person or people.
A good rule of thumb could be that if your use of sarcasm makes you feel superior, you’re not using it right.
IIRC, most of the sarcasm in the Bible was aimed at fellow “religious” folks, and was rarely (I can only remember off-hand one instance) aimed at an individual.
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Sorry for hogging the thread, but another thought came to me. A Mennonite Facebook friend, who used to be a frequent commenter on the WMB with us, has explained why he and other Mennonites (at least of his particular branch) do not believe in voting or other civic duties, such as military service. I may disagree with their stance, but I would not judge their faith by it.
A Christian lady Facebook friend of mine said that she believed that only men should vote. I pointed out how outnumbered Christians are, and that if only the men/husbands voted, that would slash the Christian vote by half. She thought that was a good point. 🙂
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Okay, I think I’m finished. (For now. 😉 )
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When I know that the Ten Commandments say, “Do not murder,” and I have a choice to vote for a party’s candidate that supports laws against abortion, I feel convicted that it would be a sin for me not to vote. If I did not vote, I would feel my action to be in support of abortion. I know everyone does not feel the same conviction, although it is very difficult for me to understand why.
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Absolutely Janice. When I know that one party’s candidate speaks of death to unborn or just born children as a “woman’s right” there is no further consideration. The one sitting in the White House along with his party advocates for death, transitioning of children when that child has no concept of what that means, promoting deviant lifestyles, gun grabbing from law abiding citizens, giving ridiculous amounts of our tax dollars to foreign countries, opening the borders for more fraudulent voters and giving them our money while they are at it!!!…..etc…
There is no way on this earth I could have sat out the vote. And anyone who says they have researched the differences between the last candidates and still voted for the Dem candidate had been blinded or just hated the one so much they pulled the wrong lever.
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Excellent and biblically clear sermon today on the “Pride” movement (and we might take note that “pride” is a sin).
Sermon spoke about the evil turn this movement is in our society (but not a new one –Rome/Greece, nothing new under the sun). But the scenario we have now includes the pressure to accept and embrace the movement.
Our pastor also spent some time on how we are to respond: “always consider you tone.”
“What must it have felt like for those sinners having dinner with Jesus? (which he’d mentioned earlier in the sermon) – Are you known as someone who truly loves and cares? Do people you know feel like you’ve earned the right to give them counsel? Will people be offended by you or by the truth you speak?”
Walk with wisdom, let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt (Col. 4:5, 6).
At one point he said how easy it is when we’re reviled to “revile in return.” You need to be the “sanest” person in the room, guard your tone.
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As for my decision to abstain from voting for president which seems to be generating some judgement here — I don’t need to defend it to you. You also don’t have to defend your votes to me. You had your reasons, I had mine. Maybe we can respect that.
Voting is an individual decision — and often one that requires some wrestling if we’re taking it seriously. The choice of candidates is what it is, often disappointing in this period of our nation?
God is doing something.
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“And anyone who says they have researched the differences between the last candidates and still voted for the Dem candidate had been blinded or just hated the one so much they pulled the wrong lever.”
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And can we even say ” a woman’s rights” when upper level governmental authorities can’t even define what a woman is? Words are quickly losing meaning.
My pastor had a great sermon/message about religious liberty and how it is from God and not from government. The push is still on to pass the “Non-Discrimination” ordinance in the city of Tucker. It does discriminate against people of all faiths as currently worded because of sexual matters. The sexual distinctions of a limited number of citizens seems to be the driving force bent toward discriminating against people who have standards that conflict with thier “religious” or lack of religious standards.
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I know and love my friend and I believe she did her own due diligence. I defend her right and her choice to vote the way she did. It’s not my business. Why is it anyone else’s here?
We have an amazing right in our nation and it should always be taken seriously. But in the end, it remains our individual choice and we should respect one another for that.
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Well there does seem to be “judgement” and it comes not from just one side . My observations are mine and when engaged with the opposite view I share my thoughts on the matter. My friend , who voted for Biden, hated Trump so much she would have voted for Mickey Mouse had that been the other candidate. … and I might have joined her in that choice
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There were many believers who had a very hard time with Trump.
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I grew up in a home where my mom was Republican and my dad was Democrat. I never thought folks voted the same way. But life went on.
The one hiccup came in the year when my mom got home to see that my dad had posted a lawn sign for the “other” candidate in front of our house.
That came down in warp speed.
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Kathakeena. @9:04 Very well said!
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Kathaleena too. :–D
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Interesting. Results of a study … (Christianity and Liberalism is an earlier book that covered some of the same territory, written in the 1920s — “but could have been written last Thursday,” as one reviewer said.)
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/research-progressive-conservative-christians/
~ Are conservative Christians prone to politicizing their faith, conflating Republican Party politics with biblical fidelity?
Some are, and we could point to plenty of examples. But the bigger, underreported story is that conservative Christians are not uniquely prone to such errors, and in fact, “progressive” Christians outpace their conservative counterparts in succumbing to politicization.
One Faith No Longer
George Yancey and Ashlee Quosigk’s new book, One Faith No Longer: the Transformation of Christianity in Red and Blue America, published by NYU Press earlier this year, has a provocative thesis. Based on new research and extensive interviews, the authors claim current progressive-conservative divisions among Christians in the U.S. (descending from the modernist-fundamentalist battles a century ago) are manifestations of fundamentally different belief systems. …
… 1. Progressive Christians are more likely to establish their identity through politics, while conservative Christians find their identity in theology.
Put simply, progressive Christians see the world through a political lens; conservative Christians, through a religious lens (155). This doesn’t mean that progressives are atheological and conservatives apolitical, but only that the emphasis is wildly disparate between the groups.
For example, progressive Christians emphasize political values relating to social justice issues as they determine who is part of their in-group; they tend to be less concerned about theological agreement. Conservative Christians, however, do not put strong emphasis on political agreement in order to determine if you are one of them—their major concern is whether you agree with them on core theological points . . . . (4)
For this reason, progressive Christians tend to be more accepting of groups that are traditionally politically progressive (such as Muslims and atheists) than they are of conservative Christians. . . . By contrast, conservative Christians tend to reject Muslims and atheists as part of an out-group, but they do not necessarily reject political liberals. . . . (14).
The authors aren’t saying progressives are naturally more political in a general sense. Their point is that progressives’ commitment to humanistic values of social justice leads them to political action as the area of causing social change. And prioritizing political alignment over theological agreement leads to the next surprise.
2. Conservative Christians are more likely than progressive Christians to defy political orthodoxy.
Just look at the last five years to see this point proven. There was a virtual Civil War among conservative evangelicals when Republican Party orthodoxy became synonymous with Donald Trump and a host of positions on immigration, poverty, racial justice, and environmentalism.
Many conservative evangelical leaders pushed back, hard, at great personal cost, against “conservative political ideology” when they saw it in conflict with biblical teaching and values. Even now, you will find theologically conservative evangelicals with major disagreements on political policy.
Such is not the case for progressive Christian leaders. “The only political issue where multiple bloggers differed from the general political progressive orthodoxy was abortion,” the authors found, and even then, the pushback was light, as if designed to highlight the harmlessness of their dissent. Their conclusion:
There are more paths by which conservative Christians defy conservative political ideology than paths by which progressive Christians defy progressive political ideology (74).
Progressive Christians are often more partisan than conservative Christians even as they chastise conservatives for being chained to a particular political ideology. Why is this the case? … ~
____________________
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I think what I see on the scales is the weight of perceived sin on the one side of one man, T, and on the other side, the weight of sin created by bad policies from a platform that opposes many things that would align with Biblical standards. I know we are not the perfect judges by any imagining, but in my mind the sin piles jp faster from a bad platform than it does from the sins of a single character that God could choose to remove at any time since He is sovereign. We are still stuck with the platform if a character we don’t care for or even loathe is taken out of the office for whatever reason. That is basically how I am coming to my conclusion and why I don’t undrrstand the weighing scales others are using to make their decisions.
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I hope that makes sense.
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But in the end, it remains our individual choice and we should respect one another for that.
But should we truly “respect” individual choice? I cannot respect a choice that ends a life. Or a choice that affirms sin leading one to be separated from Christ.
To stand on the decision of “pro choice” instead of following truth weighed by scripture is not a path I will walk.
Yes everyone has choices yet we are not required to respect their choices when it is opposed to Godly principles.
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I’d say our country is founded on giving the people the the vote.
Is one who doesn’t or didn’t vote for Trump opposed to Scripture and an unfaithful Christian?
How about those who believed Trump was lacking in good character? That things would become worse if he were elected? Is that a good choice for president? Some would decide on that basis, whether you agree with their assessment or not. But I’d say that’s a legitimate issue on which to cast a vote.
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But yes, I respect others’ choices in the ballot booth. That does not mean I agree with them (clearly).
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But I also put and try to keep politics and politicians in their (very limited) place — they will not ultimately fix us.
“All stories are ultimately about the fall.” — Tolkien
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Is one who doesn’t or didn’t vote for Trump opposed to Scripture and an unfaithful Christian?
Actually my observations were concerning the platforms of the party and not Trump. And I would say abortion, homosexuality and deceptive actions are opposed to scripture. Trump happened to be the candidate for the party opposed to those important issues. Biden was the candidate for the party endorsing them.
Unfaithful Christian? That is between that voter or non voter and God.
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I think there is a distinction between not being opposed to Scripture and being supportive or pro-Scripture.
It was interesting that my pastor pointed out today that the Constitution does not make one reference to God. I had never thought about that.
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Jesus actually offended many. They crucified him for it, and he said we would also be persecuted. However, I do agree we earn the right to be heard.
My feeling about someone’s vote is that the person is not my servant. It is like many other issues; you may discuss it and then it is up to the person. We can always pray for one another. If the person is God’s servant, we can place them in his hands.
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