… Absent a renewed Christian crusade against radical Islam — with those fabulous Hollywood-wardrobe tunics — the war on terror will be won only in alliance with moderate Muslims. Declaring them anathema is not the best beginning to coalition-building. …
(Obama’s) shopworn arguments (in his recent speech), the detached tone, the willful denial that there might be anything wrong with his policy were deeply unsettling for left, right and center. Even the New York Times had to admit “Obama’s Plans to Stop ISIS Leave Many Democrats Wanting More,” which is Timesese for Democrats Stunned by Vacancy in the Oval Office. Here was an opportunity for the Republican field to launch an all-out takedown of the Obama (and Hillary Clinton) foreign policy.
Within less than a day, that opportunity was wiped out. Once again, it’s the Donald Show.
___________________________________
They do exist but they’ve been woefully slow to figure out what a mess this has all made of their religion’s reputation, I’m afraid. A group of Muslims has recently raised a lot of money for the San Bernardino victims, I see, which is a good response. They need to do more of that and to be more visible in those kinds of efforts.
And the sane world will need Middle Eastern/Muslim allies if and when it decides to finally address ISIS in any kind of serious, military way. It really should be done soon.
That said, the extremist Muslim element is not small, despite what some might argue.
I still see “comparisons” of Muslim and “Christian” extremists being made on FB — as if there’s any comparison. 🙄
The latest panel discussion came only two days after Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump proposed a temporary ban on the entry of Muslims into the United States. Evangelist Franklin Graham seconded Trump’s idea in a Dec. 9 Facebook post, reiterating a recommendation he made in July.
During the ERLC’s Capitol Conversations, a former Muslim who is now a Southern Baptist pastor said Christians harm their witness in this country when they call for such actions.
Christians — whose message is “that life is short and we’re to live for the eternal” — applaud missionaries who risk their lives to take the Gospel overseas, but “when the mission field is coming to us, then all of a sudden we’re saying, ‘No. Get out. We want protection,'” Afshin Ziafat said.
A Christian’s goal “should not be to by all means extend my life but … by all means to spend my life being an ambassador for Christ and seeing the Gospel go out,” said Ziafat, lead pastor of Providence Church in Frisco, Texas.
There, in 1611, a religious radical suspected of violence and insurrection established a new congregation. His name was Thomas Helwys; his congregation tiny – perhaps in single figures. But that church was the very first Baptist church in England and the origin of the Baptist movement across the world…
Helwys was soon imprisoned by the government; the immediate cause of his imprisonment, somewhat ironically, was a book he had written demanding the government grant religious liberty – not only to him and his followers, but to all. As the most famous passage of that book has it, ‘…man’s religion is between God and themselves … Let them be heretics, Turks [that is, Muslims], Jews, or whatsoever, it does not appertain to the earthly power to punish them in the least measure.’
Since last week’s mass shooting by two Muslim extremists in San Bernardino, Muslim-led efforts have raised more than $200,000 to help victims of the shooting and their families.
The fundraising began before they knew the killers were Muslim, said Faisal Qazi, a neurologist in Pomona and creator of the crowdfunding campaign “Muslims United for San Bernardino Families.”
“There are 18 kids that are affected, that had a parent die,” Qazi said. “That’s a lot of impact. We’re talking about scholarships, endowments, other opportunities to participate in financially supporting these families.”
As of Friday, 1,828 donors had given a total of more than $195,000, the launchgood website shows, and Qazi said he’s working with Arrowhead United Way to see how best to distribute the money.
The money from that effort — about 10 percent of which he estimates comes from non-Muslim members of the community — is in addition to $10,000 the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Chino donated to a San Bernardino victims’ fund created on GoFundMe.com by Mayor Carey Davis.
You know the first thing pro-life groups do when murderers claim their cause, is to remind folks yet again that killing is always wrong. It goes across the board of responsible pro-life and Christian groups, they all agree and speak out against it — despite what you (don’t) read or see in the media.
I’m with Chas. Why don’t we get a similar response from mosques and Muslim groups around the globe immediately after these atrocities?
I don’t believe these activities represent the majority of Muslims around the world, at all, but, frankly, the silence is deafening.
A friend posted an article the other day with an explanation about those hardening anti-Muslim numbers. He pointed out 2 million Americans have now served in the Middle East and seen how the cultures work and they didn’t like it. They came home and told their families.
When an American soldier is court martialed for intervening over a foreign military officer sexually abusing a child, I’m having trouble sympathizing with a culture that turns a blind eye.
(Happy to discuss the Catholic priest scandal as well, but that’s another story).
“Though President Barack Obama claimed that America must “enlist Muslim communities” to combat terrorism in his Sunday evening Oval Office address, former FBI Counterterrorism Agent John Guandolo said on Monday’s Breitbart News Daily (6AM-9AM EST on Sirius XM Patriot channel 125) that since 9/11, “we collectively have received nearly zero help from the Muslim Community.”
Guandolo, who pointed out on Friday’s Breitbart News Daily that a “vast majority” of U.S. mosques and Islamic centers are a part of a much larger “jihadi network,” told host and Breitbart News Executive Chairman Stephen K. Bannon that though Muslim community leaders “certainly give the air as if they are helping,” if one looks at the “major Islamic organizations, the major Islamic centers in the United States,” they have “condemned all of the counter-terrorism policies and they’ve gotten the government to kowtow to them, to turn only to them for advice.”
“And what advice do they give them?” Guandolo asked. “That Islam doesn’t stand for this and that everything you’re doing is the reason for what happened—9/11 is your fault because of your policies.””
If Krauthammer and Obama think they’ll be any help at all, they’re mistaken.
Michelle, as you pointed out, the left-wing media tends to ignore the condemnations from pro-life leaders of things like the PP shooting. Is it possible that the right-wing media does the same when Muslim leaders condemn things like the San Bernardino shooting? I noticed a lot of condemning statements from Muslims after the Paris attacks. As every journalist knows, you need to account for everyone’s confirmation bias, including one’s own.
I think we are hearing at least more condemnations from Muslims recently, but deleted is right in saying also that (for the most part) the silence has been deafening. I’ve often wondered why there wasn’t a broader and more vocal response to these atrocities from the Muslim community.
I also suspect that the extremism runs deep and wide — at least in terms of being somewhat sympathetic to “the cause.”
But perhaps some will begin to wake up and speak up to counter the horribly negative images that have been so rooted already. Or maybe it’s too late for that.
“In a recent survey conducted by AlJazeera.net, the website for the Al Jazeera Arabic television channel, respondents overwhelmingly support the Islamic State terrorist group, with 81% voting “YES” on whether they approved of ISIS’s conquests in the region.
The poll, which asked in Arabic, “Do you support the organizing victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)?” has generated over 38,000 responses thus far, with only 19% of respondents voting “NO” to supporting ISIS.”
“Yasir Qadhi (aka Abu Ammaar Yasir Kazi) is an American imam and college professor who is described by a 2011 New York Times Magazine essay as “one of the most influential conservative clerics in American Islam.”
In his sermon/lecture in the YouTube audio below, Qadhi begins by calling Christians “shirk” for being “polythesists” who believe in the Triune God (three persons in one God), instead of Islam’s “monotheist” god Allah.
Then Qadhi really steps up his verbal abuse. He says, since “there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah wuzza wuzza,” Christians are “by necessity and by definition … the most evil of all evils.” Like all “unbelievers” and “polytheists,” Christians are “filthy.” They are “najusa” (feces, urine) — “a filthy impure dirty substance.”
Qadhi declares that the prophet Mohammad — and by extension all Muslims — “has been commanded to do jihad.”
What is jihad?
Jihad “is a means to establish monotheism on the land.” The prophet had said, “I have been commanded to fight the people until they” convert to Islam. But “if they don’t [convert to Islam,] their life and property are halal [free for the taking] for the Muslims.””
Roscuro, regarding your 9:50, do you have some examples of left-wing media publishing reports of Muslim leaders speaking out against the San Bernardino shootings, or other atrocities committed by Muslims? And who were the Muslims issuing the condemning statements you speak of in the Paris attacks? Muslim leaders? Or others?
We’re all war weary, I know, but ISIS really does have to be taken out militarily, and the sooner the better for the world.
I used to think “well, another Islamic group just like them will only rise up afterward” — which may be true, but ISIS now has become so large and has amassed so much power that at least a new group would have to start (somewhat) from scratch.
ISIS has clearly been emboldened and is on the offense against a perplexed world that would rather ignore it and wait for it to just go away. But it seems that’s not going to happen.
As for those Muslims who really want to pick up the pieces and salvage what’s left of their religion, they should probably get to it, but it could be too little too late. And that’s actually a good thing in terms of spiritual truth, of course.
Remember, God is at work in all of this. There is a much bigger, eternal drama unfolding behind the scenes that we can’t fully comprehend on this side of heaven or see in the chaotic events of our own historic time.
Yes, of course, and when I really think about it, I understand the ease of ministering to people groups who come to us rather than having to send missionaries overseas.
One of my relatives used to say, “If Christians won’t go into prisons voluntarily to minister, God will just make sure they get arrested and have to go.” Or something like that. He always voted for prison reforms as a result, with black humor noting he might want to use the gym some day . . .
I had a long conversation with one of my relatives over Thanksgiving, who had worked resettling east Asian refugees in the late 70s and 80s. He has been pondering the Middle Eastern refugee situation for some time, particularly the LGBT groups (which is where his heart lies). He said the San Francisco LGBT community had arranged to take in first 1000 LGBT, and then reduced the number to 100 as the open door shrunk, “Because they are persecuted, even in the camps.”
When I pointed out the same was happening to Christians, he shrugged SYMPATHETICALLY, and said, “I understand, but the LGBT really don’t have anywhere else to go.”
Which is probably true.
He also pointed out that “salting” refugees across the country, as in not putting them all together in one ghetto-mental-setting, is better for everyone.
“Imagine, in Sweden, they looked around and realized they had a near empty mining camp where they could resettle everyone. From a government point of view, it made sense. But they took a couple hundred people from the Middle East and placed them in an isolated mining camp above the Arctic Circle, far from Swedish citizens but convenient for government services to find them all in one place.
“Sweden has been very generous, but this was short-sighted thinking that did no one any good.”
We segued into what some friends of ours are doing in Spokane. A Lutheran church banded together, raised money and bought a duplex. They’re outfitting it to take in two refugee families. The church will help support them and anticipate within five years raising enough money from the rent to buy another duplex and so forth.
He rogered that was a good idea and the refugees who were resettled within a community “like that,” often did the best three decades ago.
I think a lot of the resistance we see toward bringing in refugees has to do with the perception (accurate, for the most part) that our borders have been so fluid and uncontrolled for years now.
It’s a sense that there is no real control over how many people come into the country now — including who they are. Vet all of them? Not likely. There are simple a lot of dangerous folks who are using the refugee crisis to try to gain entry to other parts of the world.
Of course, with the fraudulent passport production line we now hear is in place, the bad guys are obviously already here anyway. … As someone said, if they want to get here, they will. Sigh.
What to do.
There’s the Christian response (to legitimate refugees, not those coming in under that disguise). But then there’s also the civil government response, and they don’t always align neatly.
—The idea of thinking like missionaries, & being willing to risk our lives, in bringing Muslim refugees is good on the surface, but is missing one important point: If these refugees are indeed dangerous, then we are not only risking our own lives, we are also risking the lives of our unsaved family & neighbors who have no desire to be missionaries.
—As for the Al-Jazeera poll, I don’t know about this one, but I’ve read that there are a poll or two out there that Trump has mentioned, that were skewed somehow, & were not statistically accurate.
Could it be that they were afraid for their lives if they didn’t support ISIS?
—I also saw, but forget where, an article about a large Muslim protest against ISIS that was held in England. One of the leaders of the protest was complaining about the lack of media attention, that the media was being silent on this protest & others.
Seems unlikely to me that a large protest would be ignored by the media — unless all heck was breaking loose somewhere else. Breaking news always drives what gets the most coverage on any given day so some things do get lost in the shuffle if there’s a “bigger” story out there.
I just have been surprised by the lack of a very uniformed denunciation of these acts through the years, beginning with 9/11 — or maybe even before that. Maybe isolated Muslim voices here and there, but I have no sense that the religion as a whole has mobilized to isolate or disown completely these (rather large) violent factions that, frankly, have become the face of the Muslim religion in many ways.
6 Arrows, the article that I linked in our last discussion: http://thecripplegate.com/can-isis-be-considered-real-muslims/#disqus_thread, contained several links to stories about Muslims condemning the attacks. I will just quote The Cripplegate article (the blue highlights in the text indicate a hyperlink):
The Council on American-Islam Relations condemned the Paris attacks, saying, “These savage and despicable attacks on civilians, whether they occur in Paris, Beirut, or any other city, are outrageous and without justification.”
On Saturday, the United States Council of Muslim Organizations held a press conference, also condemning the attacks, saying, “These repugnant acts of violence defy the sanctity of every innocent human live and shall always be condemned and rejected…The USCMO sends its heartfelt condolences to the families of the victims and to the people of France and stands in solidarity with them against terrorism and violent extremism. We ask the American Muslim community around the nation to hold candle light vigils in memory of the victims and in support of their families.”
Muslim Council of Britain’s Secretary General, Dr. Shuja Shafi, released a statement on behalf of the organization, saying, “This attack is being claimed by the group calling themselves ‘Islamic State’. There is nothing Islamic about such people and their actions are evil, and outside the boundaries set by our faith.”
I’m not saying one way or another whether many Muslims are taking a stand against ISIS & other jihadists, but thinking of things to consider.
We Christians often complain that the March For Life in Washington DC gets scant coverage, or they estimate the crowd way below actual numbers. I’ve also seen something along the lines of “Where are all the Christians who should be denouncing. . .” when a supposed “Christian” commits some act of violence (the latest one being the shooting at the PP in Colorado), although I know many Christians did indeed speak up. (I’m guessing those denunciations show up on Christian sites that non-Christians don’t frequent.)
So I look at those things & wonder if the moderate Muslims are really being as silent as we say, or if we are just not hearing them?
Again, not saying one thing or another, just adding a couple things to consider.
Try to catch Laura Ingraham on today’s Howard Kurtz’s media show on Fox — she nails it with regard to the new push for open boarders that you now see consistently on the left.
Open borders has never been our policy, immigration has always had controls and procedures and requirements to follow.
But I have failed to hear any cogent position coming out of the left with regard to how we should deal with immigration. I kept thinking I was missing it, but I don’t think they have any suggestions for how immigration should be handled. (In other words, it shouldn’t be ‘handled’ at all — they seem to oppose any and all restrictions. This is baffling to me; although knowing the left and its current trajectory, it shouldn’t be, I know). 😦
This really is an amazing time in our history — a sad time, but amazing too. It reminds me of the late 1960s, early 1970s when all you-know-what broke loose. That eventually plateaued and stabilized (to a new normal, if you will), but we are clearly in another period now of what is a great internal upheaval.
I think it was Dennis Prager who said not long ago that (especially if another leftist is elected) we’ll (continue to) see the dismantling of the U.S. & the Constitution as we know it.
A former journalist friend of mine was extolling Spotlight, “something to make journalists proud.”
Another friend wrote it was a compelling film on a dreadful subject.
I’m curious to see it but know I cannot sit through the Catholic Church’s horror show once more, so I’ll pass. I’m still really upset about it–what, 25 years later? Watching this movie would NOT be entertainment to me. 😦
Donna – You know a website is far-left-wing when the About section says that the site exists to combat the conservative bent of the media.
I came across a site like that recently, looking at an article a friend had shared. It seemed highly skewed to me, so I looked in the About section to learn more, & read that.
The Kurtz program was highlighting how straight-news journalists — like Tom Brokaw — kind of lost it with Trump. More and more you’re seeing no effort among the “real” news sites at covering up their views. It’s become acceptable to advocate for or against a cause or candidate. You especially saw this in coverage of the gay marriage issue.
Roscuro, thanks for your replies yesterday, and the links. I haven’t had time to read them (except for the Cripplegate article you had previously posted), but I will try to take a look at the others when I have a chance.
I cancelled my subscription to Time magazine more than 20 years ago, when they announced that the Earth was the most important thing and they would slant all their coverage towards ecology and saving the Earth.
Or something like that.
I’ve been an ecologist since my childhood, but felt it was unethical for a newsmagazine to make a sweeping pronouncement like that and filter everything through that lens.
Ironically, I suppose based on the title, that’s when I started my subscription to World magazine! 🙂
Wandering Views 
Krauthammer on Trump’s “barstool eruptions” and the frustration of this campaign:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-take-the-trump-stunt-seriously/2015/12/10/7e00b794-9f72-11e5-8728-1af6af208198_story.html
__________________________________
… Absent a renewed Christian crusade against radical Islam — with those fabulous Hollywood-wardrobe tunics — the war on terror will be won only in alliance with moderate Muslims. Declaring them anathema is not the best beginning to coalition-building. …
(Obama’s) shopworn arguments (in his recent speech), the detached tone, the willful denial that there might be anything wrong with his policy were deeply unsettling for left, right and center. Even the New York Times had to admit “Obama’s Plans to Stop ISIS Leave Many Democrats Wanting More,” which is Timesese for Democrats Stunned by Vacancy in the Oval Office. Here was an opportunity for the Republican field to launch an all-out takedown of the Obama (and Hillary Clinton) foreign policy.
Within less than a day, that opportunity was wiped out. Once again, it’s the Donald Show.
___________________________________
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Where are those “moderate Muslims” everyone is talking about?
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They do exist but they’ve been woefully slow to figure out what a mess this has all made of their religion’s reputation, I’m afraid. A group of Muslims has recently raised a lot of money for the San Bernardino victims, I see, which is a good response. They need to do more of that and to be more visible in those kinds of efforts.
And the sane world will need Middle Eastern/Muslim allies if and when it decides to finally address ISIS in any kind of serious, military way. It really should be done soon.
That said, the extremist Muslim element is not small, despite what some might argue.
I still see “comparisons” of Muslim and “Christian” extremists being made on FB — as if there’s any comparison. 🙄
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Report on the ERLC panel discussion: http://www.bpnews.net/45997/christian-response-to-refugees-and-muslims-discussed
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A review of the historical connection between Baptists and Religious Liberty: http://steverholmes.org.uk/blog/?p=7578
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From a story in one of our inland sister papers:
Since last week’s mass shooting by two Muslim extremists in San Bernardino, Muslim-led efforts have raised more than $200,000 to help victims of the shooting and their families.
The fundraising began before they knew the killers were Muslim, said Faisal Qazi, a neurologist in Pomona and creator of the crowdfunding campaign “Muslims United for San Bernardino Families.”
“There are 18 kids that are affected, that had a parent die,” Qazi said. “That’s a lot of impact. We’re talking about scholarships, endowments, other opportunities to participate in financially supporting these families.”
As of Friday, 1,828 donors had given a total of more than $195,000, the launchgood website shows, and Qazi said he’s working with Arrowhead United Way to see how best to distribute the money.
The money from that effort — about 10 percent of which he estimates comes from non-Muslim members of the community — is in addition to $10,000 the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community in Chino donated to a San Bernardino victims’ fund created on GoFundMe.com by Mayor Carey Davis.
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You know the first thing pro-life groups do when murderers claim their cause, is to remind folks yet again that killing is always wrong. It goes across the board of responsible pro-life and Christian groups, they all agree and speak out against it — despite what you (don’t) read or see in the media.
I’m with Chas. Why don’t we get a similar response from mosques and Muslim groups around the globe immediately after these atrocities?
I don’t believe these activities represent the majority of Muslims around the world, at all, but, frankly, the silence is deafening.
A friend posted an article the other day with an explanation about those hardening anti-Muslim numbers. He pointed out 2 million Americans have now served in the Middle East and seen how the cultures work and they didn’t like it. They came home and told their families.
When an American soldier is court martialed for intervening over a foreign military officer sexually abusing a child, I’m having trouble sympathizing with a culture that turns a blind eye.
(Happy to discuss the Catholic priest scandal as well, but that’s another story).
😦
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Well, not happy, at all. 😦
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You mean the “moderate” muslims like these? Or did you have some other mythical creature in mind?
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/07/fmr-fbi-counterterrorism-agent-weve-received-nearly-zero-help-from-u-s-muslim-community-since-911/
“Though President Barack Obama claimed that America must “enlist Muslim communities” to combat terrorism in his Sunday evening Oval Office address, former FBI Counterterrorism Agent John Guandolo said on Monday’s Breitbart News Daily (6AM-9AM EST on Sirius XM Patriot channel 125) that since 9/11, “we collectively have received nearly zero help from the Muslim Community.”
Guandolo, who pointed out on Friday’s Breitbart News Daily that a “vast majority” of U.S. mosques and Islamic centers are a part of a much larger “jihadi network,” told host and Breitbart News Executive Chairman Stephen K. Bannon that though Muslim community leaders “certainly give the air as if they are helping,” if one looks at the “major Islamic organizations, the major Islamic centers in the United States,” they have “condemned all of the counter-terrorism policies and they’ve gotten the government to kowtow to them, to turn only to them for advice.”
“And what advice do they give them?” Guandolo asked. “That Islam doesn’t stand for this and that everything you’re doing is the reason for what happened—9/11 is your fault because of your policies.””
If Krauthammer and Obama think they’ll be any help at all, they’re mistaken.
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Michelle, as you pointed out, the left-wing media tends to ignore the condemnations from pro-life leaders of things like the PP shooting. Is it possible that the right-wing media does the same when Muslim leaders condemn things like the San Bernardino shooting? I noticed a lot of condemning statements from Muslims after the Paris attacks. As every journalist knows, you need to account for everyone’s confirmation bias, including one’s own.
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I think we are hearing at least more condemnations from Muslims recently, but deleted is right in saying also that (for the most part) the silence has been deafening. I’ve often wondered why there wasn’t a broader and more vocal response to these atrocities from the Muslim community.
I also suspect that the extremism runs deep and wide — at least in terms of being somewhat sympathetic to “the cause.”
But perhaps some will begin to wake up and speak up to counter the horribly negative images that have been so rooted already. Or maybe it’s too late for that.
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http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/05/25/shock-poll-81-of-al-jazeera-arabic-poll-respondents-support-isis/
“In a recent survey conducted by AlJazeera.net, the website for the Al Jazeera Arabic television channel, respondents overwhelmingly support the Islamic State terrorist group, with 81% voting “YES” on whether they approved of ISIS’s conquests in the region.
The poll, which asked in Arabic, “Do you support the organizing victories of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS)?” has generated over 38,000 responses thus far, with only 19% of respondents voting “NO” to supporting ISIS.”
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Maybe they mean moderates like this guy. And he’s not in some 3rd world country spouting this nonsense, he’s in the US.
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12/leading-us-imam-and-professor-muslims-can-take-property-of-filthy-christians-and-jews-video/
“Yasir Qadhi (aka Abu Ammaar Yasir Kazi) is an American imam and college professor who is described by a 2011 New York Times Magazine essay as “one of the most influential conservative clerics in American Islam.”
In his sermon/lecture in the YouTube audio below, Qadhi begins by calling Christians “shirk” for being “polythesists” who believe in the Triune God (three persons in one God), instead of Islam’s “monotheist” god Allah.
Then Qadhi really steps up his verbal abuse. He says, since “there is no deity worthy of worship except Allah wuzza wuzza,” Christians are “by necessity and by definition … the most evil of all evils.” Like all “unbelievers” and “polytheists,” Christians are “filthy.” They are “najusa” (feces, urine) — “a filthy impure dirty substance.”
Qadhi declares that the prophet Mohammad — and by extension all Muslims — “has been commanded to do jihad.”
What is jihad?
Jihad “is a means to establish monotheism on the land.” The prophet had said, “I have been commanded to fight the people until they” convert to Islam. But “if they don’t [convert to Islam,] their life and property are halal [free for the taking] for the Muslims.””
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Roscuro, regarding your 9:50, do you have some examples of left-wing media publishing reports of Muslim leaders speaking out against the San Bernardino shootings, or other atrocities committed by Muslims? And who were the Muslims issuing the condemning statements you speak of in the Paris attacks? Muslim leaders? Or others?
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(Or both?)
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We’re all war weary, I know, but ISIS really does have to be taken out militarily, and the sooner the better for the world.
I used to think “well, another Islamic group just like them will only rise up afterward” — which may be true, but ISIS now has become so large and has amassed so much power that at least a new group would have to start (somewhat) from scratch.
ISIS has clearly been emboldened and is on the offense against a perplexed world that would rather ignore it and wait for it to just go away. But it seems that’s not going to happen.
As for those Muslims who really want to pick up the pieces and salvage what’s left of their religion, they should probably get to it, but it could be too little too late. And that’s actually a good thing in terms of spiritual truth, of course.
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Remember, God is at work in all of this. There is a much bigger, eternal drama unfolding behind the scenes that we can’t fully comprehend on this side of heaven or see in the chaotic events of our own historic time.
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Yes, of course, and when I really think about it, I understand the ease of ministering to people groups who come to us rather than having to send missionaries overseas.
One of my relatives used to say, “If Christians won’t go into prisons voluntarily to minister, God will just make sure they get arrested and have to go.” Or something like that. He always voted for prison reforms as a result, with black humor noting he might want to use the gym some day . . .
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I had a long conversation with one of my relatives over Thanksgiving, who had worked resettling east Asian refugees in the late 70s and 80s. He has been pondering the Middle Eastern refugee situation for some time, particularly the LGBT groups (which is where his heart lies). He said the San Francisco LGBT community had arranged to take in first 1000 LGBT, and then reduced the number to 100 as the open door shrunk, “Because they are persecuted, even in the camps.”
When I pointed out the same was happening to Christians, he shrugged SYMPATHETICALLY, and said, “I understand, but the LGBT really don’t have anywhere else to go.”
Which is probably true.
He also pointed out that “salting” refugees across the country, as in not putting them all together in one ghetto-mental-setting, is better for everyone.
“Imagine, in Sweden, they looked around and realized they had a near empty mining camp where they could resettle everyone. From a government point of view, it made sense. But they took a couple hundred people from the Middle East and placed them in an isolated mining camp above the Arctic Circle, far from Swedish citizens but convenient for government services to find them all in one place.
“Sweden has been very generous, but this was short-sighted thinking that did no one any good.”
We segued into what some friends of ours are doing in Spokane. A Lutheran church banded together, raised money and bought a duplex. They’re outfitting it to take in two refugee families. The church will help support them and anticipate within five years raising enough money from the rent to buy another duplex and so forth.
He rogered that was a good idea and the refugees who were resettled within a community “like that,” often did the best three decades ago.
Ministry coming to our door?
Probably.
So, will we show the gospel or hatred?
And is there a medium between the two?
🙂
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I think a lot of the resistance we see toward bringing in refugees has to do with the perception (accurate, for the most part) that our borders have been so fluid and uncontrolled for years now.
It’s a sense that there is no real control over how many people come into the country now — including who they are. Vet all of them? Not likely. There are simple a lot of dangerous folks who are using the refugee crisis to try to gain entry to other parts of the world.
Of course, with the fraudulent passport production line we now hear is in place, the bad guys are obviously already here anyway. … As someone said, if they want to get here, they will. Sigh.
What to do.
There’s the Christian response (to legitimate refugees, not those coming in under that disguise). But then there’s also the civil government response, and they don’t always align neatly.
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There’s clearly a lack of trust in our own government to responsibly manage the situation. 😦
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—The idea of thinking like missionaries, & being willing to risk our lives, in bringing Muslim refugees is good on the surface, but is missing one important point: If these refugees are indeed dangerous, then we are not only risking our own lives, we are also risking the lives of our unsaved family & neighbors who have no desire to be missionaries.
—As for the Al-Jazeera poll, I don’t know about this one, but I’ve read that there are a poll or two out there that Trump has mentioned, that were skewed somehow, & were not statistically accurate.
Could it be that they were afraid for their lives if they didn’t support ISIS?
—I also saw, but forget where, an article about a large Muslim protest against ISIS that was held in England. One of the leaders of the protest was complaining about the lack of media attention, that the media was being silent on this protest & others.
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Seems unlikely to me that a large protest would be ignored by the media — unless all heck was breaking loose somewhere else. Breaking news always drives what gets the most coverage on any given day so some things do get lost in the shuffle if there’s a “bigger” story out there.
I just have been surprised by the lack of a very uniformed denunciation of these acts through the years, beginning with 9/11 — or maybe even before that. Maybe isolated Muslim voices here and there, but I have no sense that the religion as a whole has mobilized to isolate or disown completely these (rather large) violent factions that, frankly, have become the face of the Muslim religion in many ways.
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6 Arrows, the article that I linked in our last discussion: http://thecripplegate.com/can-isis-be-considered-real-muslims/#disqus_thread, contained several links to stories about Muslims condemning the attacks. I will just quote The Cripplegate article (the blue highlights in the text indicate a hyperlink):
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A few more links: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/70000-indian-muslim-clerics-issue-fatwa-against-isis-the-taliban-al-qaida-and-other-terror-groups-a6768191.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/muslim-anti-isis-march-not-covered-by-mainstream-media-outlets-say-organisers-a6765976.html
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More: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11545786
I have always had special interest in the Hazara ever since I read what they suffered under the Taliban: http://www.ibtimes.co.in/afghanistan-thousands-protest-kabul-against-isis-beheading-7-hazaras-including-women-child-654181. I had the opportunity to meet some Hazara refugees when I worked with the church in the city.
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Al-Jazeera is interesting. I’ve read the wordings/stories are different between the English and Arabic translations. 😦
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I’m not saying one way or another whether many Muslims are taking a stand against ISIS & other jihadists, but thinking of things to consider.
We Christians often complain that the March For Life in Washington DC gets scant coverage, or they estimate the crowd way below actual numbers. I’ve also seen something along the lines of “Where are all the Christians who should be denouncing. . .” when a supposed “Christian” commits some act of violence (the latest one being the shooting at the PP in Colorado), although I know many Christians did indeed speak up. (I’m guessing those denunciations show up on Christian sites that non-Christians don’t frequent.)
So I look at those things & wonder if the moderate Muslims are really being as silent as we say, or if we are just not hearing them?
Again, not saying one thing or another, just adding a couple things to consider.
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Try to catch Laura Ingraham on today’s Howard Kurtz’s media show on Fox — she nails it with regard to the new push for open boarders that you now see consistently on the left.
Open borders has never been our policy, immigration has always had controls and procedures and requirements to follow.
But I have failed to hear any cogent position coming out of the left with regard to how we should deal with immigration. I kept thinking I was missing it, but I don’t think they have any suggestions for how immigration should be handled. (In other words, it shouldn’t be ‘handled’ at all — they seem to oppose any and all restrictions. This is baffling to me; although knowing the left and its current trajectory, it shouldn’t be, I know). 😦
This really is an amazing time in our history — a sad time, but amazing too. It reminds me of the late 1960s, early 1970s when all you-know-what broke loose. That eventually plateaued and stabilized (to a new normal, if you will), but we are clearly in another period now of what is a great internal upheaval.
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I think it was Dennis Prager who said not long ago that (especially if another leftist is elected) we’ll (continue to) see the dismantling of the U.S. & the Constitution as we know it.
Very frustrating to watch.
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Sobering discussion on Kurtz’s show today, too, about how journalism is becoming more and more an advocacy outlet. And the same for late-night TV.
It’s all politics (left-wing, mostly) all the time. Sigh.
Neutral news coverage? Few are even making an honest anymore. 😦 😦 Sad, sad, sad.
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“an honest attempt” – left out a word
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A former journalist friend of mine was extolling Spotlight, “something to make journalists proud.”
Another friend wrote it was a compelling film on a dreadful subject.
I’m curious to see it but know I cannot sit through the Catholic Church’s horror show once more, so I’ll pass. I’m still really upset about it–what, 25 years later? Watching this movie would NOT be entertainment to me. 😦
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Michelle – I recently read that a Catholic bishop has said that seven year old boys are partially culpable for their being molested. Disgusting.
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Donna – You know a website is far-left-wing when the About section says that the site exists to combat the conservative bent of the media.
I came across a site like that recently, looking at an article a friend had shared. It seemed highly skewed to me, so I looked in the About section to learn more, & read that.
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The Kurtz program was highlighting how straight-news journalists — like Tom Brokaw — kind of lost it with Trump. More and more you’re seeing no effort among the “real” news sites at covering up their views. It’s become acceptable to advocate for or against a cause or candidate. You especially saw this in coverage of the gay marriage issue.
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Roscuro, thanks for your replies yesterday, and the links. I haven’t had time to read them (except for the Cripplegate article you had previously posted), but I will try to take a look at the others when I have a chance.
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I cancelled my subscription to Time magazine more than 20 years ago, when they announced that the Earth was the most important thing and they would slant all their coverage towards ecology and saving the Earth.
Or something like that.
I’ve been an ecologist since my childhood, but felt it was unethical for a newsmagazine to make a sweeping pronouncement like that and filter everything through that lens.
Ironically, I suppose based on the title, that’s when I started my subscription to World magazine! 🙂
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