79 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 8-10-15”

  2. Good Morning Everyone. Let’s see…Well last night you seemed to have quite the discussion. Cheryl touched a nerve with me from the head covering discussion. In one sentence that she wrote she said something about “legalistic”. That is all it took for me. I grew up in a legalistic church school. Sometimes thoughts of the place make me unable to breathe.
    Karen—whether you do or don’t is between you and God. You do what God tells you to do. Just be sure it is God you are listening to, not me or anyone else.
    And that my friends is my final say on the subject.

    I have other issues that have my “hair on fire”. I had a good day yesterday. I had picked up an old paper back to read outside. I love my Kindle but I can’t read it outside. I know that I had read this book a number of years ago and it was in a box so I picked it up a couple of weeks ago to read outside. As I got 3/4 of the way through it started losing pages. I ended up throwing away sections of the book as I went. It pains me to do something like that–what if in 5 years I want to read it again? Mr P made hamburgers for dinner. It had started raining so he cooked them inside in a cast iron pan. Completely different flavor. I think I liked them better. I mean how could you NOT like all the flavor that cooked back into them because they cooked in their own juices? The Puppy Dawgs were happy to have a little something extra on their dry food last night. Rotten Little Beasts–they both need to get jobs and start contributing around here instead of just lying around waiting to be served hand and foot. 😉

    A little issue with BG concerning budgeting, curfew, and her social life. She has 12 dollars in her account until Thursday, but she has big plans to go out for a friends birthday tonight. She is counting on doing chores around here to earn some extra money. What she doesn’t know yet is that I did her chores yesterday because I had waited long enough for them to be done. My Rainbow vacuum cleaner is on the fritz again. The beater bar isn’t working. I just had it fixed! It is only 15 years old. The other el cheapo vacuum has at some point has gotten smelly. I ended up spraying Lysol into it because it smelled so much.
    Anyway, she doesn’t understand why I won’t give her my debit card and let her go out with her friends. Life lesson.
    No mon, no fun…
    Too bad, too sad.

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  3. Good morning and evening wishes for all!

    Speaking of head coverings (yesterday’s topic continued), does frizz count? I have a covering of hair and usually over that is a layer of the less well behaved frizz. 🙂

    When son was quite young and I was quite frazzled most of the time, a neighbor saw me and thought I looked like an angel because of my halo of frizz! So the next time you see a poor lady with frizz, call her an angel to make her day memorable.

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  4. Karen, if God calls you to obedience on that issue, just go with it, especially if Lee is okay with it. If your hair is long enough you could probably put it into a bun and find a nice little covering for that. We sometimes have black ladies in our congregation who wear head coverings because they are from an African nation, or else from a background that wears hats to church.

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  5. I wanted to share that I sent some Bible verses from Romans out of the New Living Translation to my friend who was not understanding salvation. She read that along with my explanation and she went back to a book of Bible promises I had given her in the past and found some personally relevant verses. One was John 3:16 because it says Jesus came for everyone. The other verse was about that everyone is a sinner. She believed with faith in Jesus and now joins the saved. She said it never rains in her part of CA at this time of the year, but they got a miraculous tweny minute rain shower that made her dog bark because of its rarity. She said she hopes God lets pets into heaven, too.

    She had felt beaten down by some relatives who told her she could not be saved because of the kind of church she attended…they made her feel like she was without hope in that regard. That is too bad that Christians can do that to people. In time as she draws closer to God she may be convicted to change churches. I believe there are some who are saved in mainline churches and some who are unsaved in evangelical churches.

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  7. Kim, FYI, I wasn’t saying that covering one’s head is legalistic. If a woman believes it is required to obey Scripture (and her husband does not object), then she should do so. (If he does object, she should make her case to him respectfully, but she will not be showing submission to her husband by publicly doing something to which he objects.) Obeying Scripture is not legalism (unless one expects to earn some sort of credit with God). But others can fear that something like that can turn into a this-group-does and this-group-doesn’t, and the group that does is holier.

    My sister has such a situation in her church. Those who use the KJV think those who don’t are sinning–to the degree that one woman told her that her (my husband’s) late husband had been an ungodly leader in his home, even though he used the KJV, because he didn’t teach her it was re-inspired, or something along that line. My sister finally read enough to be persuaded the KJV actually isn’t the best version (she used it for belief it was the best translation), but she almost stopped using it just because she didn’t want to be one of “thos” people who use the KJV, since so many of them revere the version itself, to the point of idolatry of the version and false witness against those who don’t use it.

    I don’t see any problem with a woman quietly wearing a head covering and quietly making her case for “why” to anyone who asks. Where I’d see a problem is if the church moved into factions, some who wore and some who didn’t, and some of the ones who wore making it clear the others were out of God’s will. We humans can tend to do that.

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  8. Janice, I think it is awful to tell someone that they aren’t saved because of the church they attend. I know some Catholics and yes, there are even some Episcopalians left who are better Christians than anyone else I can think of. It is arrogant to think that your particular flavor of Christianity is the only way to salvation. Going back in History the Greek/Eastern Orthodox and Catholicism were the original Christian churches. Yes, they have changed over the years and strayed from strict Biblical teaching (probably not the Orthodox or at least not the last time I attended the Greek Orthodox church) but to say that only the Full Gospel Holiness, Apostolic Tabernacle of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is the only way to salvation and the Baptists are all going to hell because they don’t have the same doctrine is enough to make my blood boil. (I made up the name of the first church and I intentionally chose the Baptists as the second church because I DO believe that even though I don’t attend one they have sound doctrine).
    That doesn’t mean that I think all roads lead to heaven-I don’t. I also think the Catholic church as lost its mind and I think Pope Francis is a nut job. But I DO believe there are still some good Christian Catholics left in the church. One of them is dying right now. I have no doubt that he will be in heaven soon.

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  10. Re the header photo: it’s swamp milkweed. Remember that milkweed is the only flower monarch caterpillars can eat, but it comes in many forms, and this is one of the really lovely ones . . . except the flowers are so tiny it isn’t this conspicuous in real life.

    In fact, last year I got photos of it and when I looked at it on my screen at home, I thought wow, that’s really beautiful, why didn’t I take more photos of it? When I found it again this year, I realized why–because it’s so small I didn’t realize how pretty it is until I saw it slightly enlarged on the screen. (I also didn’t know it was milkweed when I photographed it last year.) It grows in swampy regions, so I don’t know if monarchs ever get there or not, but it’s pretty. The photos I got last year actually showed individual flowers better.

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  11. Thank you for the clarification Cheryl. I am one who loves the wording and the poetic sound of the King James Version, but for understanding I read several other translations.
    Which sounds better and which is easier to understand:

    Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    10 Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

    11 Give us this day our daily bread.

    12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

    13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

    or this atrocious version:

    Our Father who is in heaven,

    uphold the holiness of your name.

    10 Bring in your kingdom

    so that your will is done on earth as it’s done in heaven.

    11 Give us the bread we need for today.

    12 Forgive us for the ways we have wronged you,

    just as we also forgive those who have wronged us.

    13 And don’t lead us into temptation,

    but rescue us from the evil one.

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  12. Re – The head covering: Former pastor taught that the I Corinthians 11:2-16 passage applied to married women. He pointed to verse 5, about a woman praying or prophesying in public, as meaning that when a woman does either of those (and we know that women did prophesy in the early Church, see Acts 2:17, 21:9) she must do so under the headship of her husband, who covers her. I cannot remember exactly what he said about verse 10; however, I was rereading it this morning and something suddenly stood out to me:

    In the Old Testament, angels are called in the Hebrew by two words, malak and elohim (used in Genesis 28:12, 32:1, Psalm 8:5, 68:17). Elohim is the same word that is used as the generic word for God, whether the True God (Genesis 1:1) or false gods (I Kings 11:4-5). It is also used in Psalm 82:6 and Exodus 22:28 to speak of human rulers on earth, like judges or kings – Jesus pointed this out to the Pharisees when they accused him of blasphemy because he said he was God (John 10:33-38). So, elohim seems to have been used to describe any who wielded authority and power, whether God Himself, or those to whom He granted authority (Genesis 1:28, 9:2), or those to whom men wrongly attributed authority (false gods). The context tells which one it is.

    Paul, being brought up under the Old Testament, would have known that angels and human authorities are described with the same word. There is some reason to think that he may have been referring to human authorities rather than angelic beings. The context of the I Corinthians passage, as he talks about the headship of the man over the woman, would make it more likely that should be the explanation. The Greek word for angel means messenger, and is used in the passages where it speaks of John the Baptist being the messenger sent before Christ. It is also used to describe pastors – John uses it in Revelation, when he addresses Christ’s words “unto the angel of the church in _____” and most commentators believe he is addressing the elders of those churches. This how Matthew Henry put it in his commentary: “He was directed to write to every one of them according to their present state and circumstances, and to inscribe every letter to the angel of that church, to the minister or rather ministry of that church, called angels because they are the messengers of God to mankind.” This explanation of I Corinthians 11:10 would also fit very well with Paul’s words in I Timothy 2:12, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man.” A woman praying or prophesying under her husband’s authority would prevent that usurpation.

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  14. Kim @9:19: I pretty much agree with your summary of the modern Catholic church, but I also know genuine Christians that are Catholics. There was a strong Independent Fundamentalist influence on my growing up years, but now, I think it is important to remember this passage:

    And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. Mark 9:38-40

    Cheryl & Kim: The little church I attend has become more intensely KJV only under the new pastor. They were making such a big deal of it, that I started reading the ESV parallel with the KJV to compare. So far, nothing remarkably different has showed up. I have spoken up to protest some of the more extreme statements that were made, as I knew and could prove they were false. None of the members are really what you could call hardcore Fundamentalists (too Calvinistic and not dispensationalist enough for one thing), but they have read some poisonous material from that quarter. There are some so-called Christian writers who will have to account to God for why they told such slanderous lies.

    I personally love the King James for its beautiful prose and poetry. It was after all, written during the Golden Age of Elizabethan English, and anyone who enjoys Shakespeare (and I do) should enjoy the KJV. I have a Cambridge edition, which puts the prose in paragraphs and the poetry in verse and column; and reading it, the words just flow off the page. The edition also contains the long introduction ‘From the Translators to the Reader’, and the original marginal notes. It is quite clear that the translators practiced as much textual criticism as they could in preparing the translation, and would have used the Greek texts we have today if they had had them. It is tragic that certain fanatics are poisoning a wonderful work of the English language.

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  15. Roscuro, I grew up with the KJV, and today if I quote a verse (even one I never deliberately memorized), I pretty much have to translate it “out” of the KJV as I quote it. Then for 20 years I used the NKJV, which kept the poetry but updated a bit of the language. But my church in Nashville used the ESV (as does my church here), and I decided it made sense for me to use it, too, so I switched. The NASB and NKJV are surprisingly similar. (I once edited a book that used both, without marking which one was being used on a specific verse, so I did my Scripture check with both versions open side-by-side on Bible Gateway, and I was shocked at how many verses were identical except for one word or even identical except for a comma or two. Obviously there are probably even whole chapters where that wouldn’t be the case, but for dozens or hundreds of verses I saw a very real similarity.)

    The NIV is absolutely hideous for the poetic passages, and the Message pretty much gags me: way, way, way too many figures of speech, including the sorts of modern phrases that sound really weird put in the mouth of Jesus. I just can’t imagine Him saying, “I’m on that, Thomas. Can I count you in, John? Peter, did you deal with that man who was stirring the pot with that group who were extending their lunch hour and frittering away their time while they were on the clock?” That’s a made-up example, but it’s the sort of way it tries to be up-to-the-minute and ends up grating on the nerves and sounding like a bad novelized version of the Gospels.

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  16. Good morning all! Young son cuddled up next to me, 7 month old sitting between my feet playing. 4 granddaughters all playing quietly. I am blessed.

    I will weigh in on the head covering debate. I wore one for a number of years and would say that I received so many blessings from God for my obedience to what He had for ME to do. My husband had been to a men’s Bible study where they talked about headship. He talked to me about it. I told him to not count on my wearing a covering, but that I would pray about it, which I did. Less than 2 weeks later, I was convicted through the Holy Spirit that I was to wear one. It served as a reminder to me that I was a representative of God, and everyone knew it. If the Holy Spirit is leading you to do this, do not hesitate.

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  18. I never liked the NIV, always used the New American Standard until the ESV was released and I’ve used that since. King James, however, is nice to read again from time to time.

    I was trying to find any news I could yesterday online about what’s going on with Bible Study Fellowship as I’d suggested it recently to someone. But I realized I’d been out of it for more than 10 years now and probably wasn’t up to speed on how things were going (and I’d had problems with the program way back then, but the benefits for me outweighed my concerns).

    I saw several threads online that expressed concern about BSF teaching leaders quoting from The Message, which was surprising as they were always adamant about not using paraphrases. Some in leadership also were quoting from a devotional book I’d never heard of — Jesus Calling — that many have issues with.

    This year BSF is doing a brand new study — the book of Revelation — which could be tricky, depending on the approach.

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  19. I don’t like that some (most) new translations have deleted the word “behold”. “Look” does not have the same meaning. “Dear woman, here is your son”” John 19:26 NIV doesn’t have the same intensity is “Woman, behold your son”.

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  20. Anyone involved recently in BSF? I’m grateful for the years I spent there (probably close to 15, including much of that as a discussion group leader), but when I left I felt it was time to move on and I’d likely not go back (especially after reading some of what I read yesterday). Things change, new leaders come in as the founders move out.

    I would say there are probably people who are genuinely saved in just about all churches, no matter how heretical. I know Christians who are in liberal mainline denominations (though we differ on many side issues as a result and some of their positions simply aren’t biblically grounded), Catholic churches, etc. And there are no doubt some believers not in any church, though it is not the norm nor is that desirable.

    And there are likely “tares” in even the soundest of churches, people who attend church through tradition or routine but who have not been regenerated.

    Individual Christian growth and fidelity to sound doctrine, however, are tied, I think, to being in a faithful church that is well grounded in biblical theology. And eventually many Christians move into those churches if they’re not in one at the time of their salvation, but not always.

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  23. I took the children on a flashlight tour of the pumpkin spiders last night. It was amazing to see them building their webs. We got to see them in several different phases of completion. We saw a moth get caught and wrapped up for later. The only excitement was when a June bug flew directly at us in the flashlight beam. Squeals were heard from almost all of us.

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  25. There’s an elaborate spider web on the back of my Jeep (in the space between my spare tire and the rear tail gate door). But I don’t see the spider, I suspect he blew away once it all unexpectedly went mobile. One of life’s unexpected home disasters if you’re a spider I guess

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  31. I recently made peach sorbet to use up some ripe peaches. First time and it turned out good. I had to ‘combine’ a couple of recipes, since I could not find one specifically for it. I also made some very good peach bars. A friend told me she now freezes hers.

    She blanches to remove the skin and then slices them into water with a bit ascorbic acid. Then she puts them in containers, sliced with a bit of sugar and more ascorbic acid. She says they taste just like fresh peaches. Of course, you have to have the freezer space and those canned may last longer.

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  32. I recently gave a grandson a gift of a set to watch butterflies grow. The caterpillars have to be ordered with a coupon in the set. They recently released five butterflies after watching them change from cocoons. It was a big hit.

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  33. Donna, this is the amazon description of Jesus Calling, a “run the other way” description if I’ve ever seen one: “Jesus Calling is a devotional filled with uniquely inspired treasures from heaven for every day of the year. After many years of writing in her prayer journal, missionary Sarah Young decided to listen to God with pen in hand, writing down whatever she believed He was saying to her. It was awkward at first, but gradually her journaling changed from monologue to dialogue. She knew her writings were not inspired as Scripture is, but journaling helped her grow closer to God. Others were blessed as she shared her writings, until people all over the world were using her messages. They are written from Jesus’ point of view, thus the title Jesus Calling. It is Sarah’s fervent prayer that our Savior may bless readers with His presence and His peace in ever deeper measure.”

    Is BSF using it in any sort of “official” way? I was never involved in their meetings, but have many friends who have been, and this doesn’t sound like something they’d promote. Awful!

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  34. What is this Jesus Calling thing? What did you say about it, Donna? Yesterday, our oldest adopted daughter came by (she elected to move out at seventeen as she could not live in the house with one of our adopted sons) to visit her sibs prior to leaving the area. She did not speak to us at all, neither did her companion. She gave a gift to her sister which turned out to be this book. I read one day on it and did not like it. If Cheryl is saying it is not a good thing and Donna saying the same, we will be returning the gift. The people around daughter have been a very negative influence in her life in a lot of ways and we are sorry to see it. We do believe allowing her to leave and live with the other family was needed for the success of the other children, and seems to have worked, but a huge setback for her.

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  35. Cheryl, concerning the headcovering, I probably used the wrong words. But in my experience, when I first started wearing the head covering to church, the older women were adamant that I was wrong to do so. They insisted it was cultural and I was setting back the women and becoming legalistic by wearing one. On the other hand, most men (not all) quietly thanked me or my husband and were encouraging. Personally, I believe each couple should do what God is calling them to. Obviously, one person is called to not drink, another believes in drinking in moderation. Etc through all sorts of activities. Other activities are very clearly permissible or not. Too me, the head covering issue is quite clear. To others, it is clearly not what I think. Is that clear?

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  39. 48 degrees is too cold for the inside of a house!!! But I am seeing sunshine, so it should warm up outside.
    I was in BSF for the six months I was home and found it to be true to the Word. The notes and questions were very clear and biblical.

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  41. Mumsee, thank you. Obviously I don’t think it’s wrong to wear a head covering–no possible interpretation of the passage would make it wrong to do so. (Now, a person’s attitude can be wrong even if the actions are otherwise acceptable–the example of a woman doing it to show her submission though her husband doesn’t want her to do so and thus she isn’t being submissive at all.)

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  43. Jesus Calling has been VERY big in the publishing world for a couple years. I know lots of people who adore it. There are all sorts of different versions focused on a variety of age groups and interests.

    It should only be a devotional. I’ve not read it, felt uneasy about what I had heard, and have lived happily ever after.

    I use the New King James Bible and am perfectly happy. I occasionally consult The Message when I’m teaching to look for clarity. One of the Bible teachers at our church refers to it as the “dude Bible,” and I always point out it’s a paraphrase and we’re using it as an extra text.

    You should never study Scripture from a paraphrase, of course.

    I have no opinion on head coverings. To me, it can become a distraction–both gorgeous hair (cover it!) or gorgeous hat (take it off!).

    So, I dress modestly and only wear a church on Easter–when we all fawn over each other’s hats, which is not the purpose anyway.

    If you feel convicted, I’d say go ahead and wear it. That’s what I would do.

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  44. I use the New American Standard Bible. I like the ESV, but dislike that they don’t capitalize he, him, etc. when referring to God. To me the text is much clearer with the capitalization.

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  45. I read the Challies review yesterday also, I usually hear about popular christian titles but this one escaped me I guess.

    And I’m unclear about how it has been used by people in BSF (which typically discouraged all other books except the Bible). I saw references online to teaching leaders quoting from it — more than one, which made one wonder if it was being used in some way at headquarters or in leadership training … ? But it could also have been just a couple leaders quoting from it with no BSF official (or unofficial) sanction involved, I couldn’t tell.

    The program has apparently gone through some changes under current leadership, however — becoming more open to the contemplative movement, for example. When I was involved, Rosemary Jensen was still the president (she retired I think in 2000) and she had some Reformed church connections. Sounds like that’s gone at this point.

    There are many good things about BSF, but I was always bothered by a couple of the program’s quirks, including the insistence on what was almost a secrecy with regard to never sharing or copying the notes (including not sharing them with your pastor) — it struck me as almost usurping the role of the church in some of those house “rules.”

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  46. Head coverings and spiders and peaches, oh my. Quite a variety of topics here today. 🙂

    Pardon the change to another topic entirely, but as I was reading the thread, a message appeared on my screen, and a new, unfamiliar icon in the bottom right part of my screen, which says, “Restart your computer to complete installation.”

    I thought, what installation? I’m not installing anything. Now I’m afraid to shut off my computer, wondering what will happen when I start it back up.

    Anyone else have that, or know what to do? Will putting my computer to sleep, which I usually do instead of completely shutting it down, not cause a problem when I come back to it?

    Tech. Grrr. 😉

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  47. I also realize that I don’t see some of the more “popular” Christian titles anymore because there are no more Christian bookstores in which to browse! (Which used to be a favorite pastime of mine 😦 .)

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  49. The other recent criticism I was seeing online was an increase in the more subjective “what do you think,” “what does this mean to you,” or “feeling” questions — which were beginning to be used more at the time I was transitioning out (2003, I think it was, when I left after having originally joined in 1990)

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  50. I prefer the KJV, but will read NASB, NIV, and what not if I need to.

    I wish we could change the sexist attitudes toward head coverings in church. Why is it woman can get away with it, but we can’t? I’m not talking about wearing a Yankees hat, but why do I have to take my fedora off? It looks nice and goes with my outfit. (I only wear it when it does) Plus I have the added embarrassment of walking around with hat head because of this archaic holdover from southern cotillion classes. This madness and obvious abuse of our rights to equal treatment needs to stop. 😦

    I’m thinking of starting a nationwide campaign to recruit others to my cause. I even have a hashtag prepared.

    #freethefedora 🙂

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  51. I have a relative who does automatic writing. The practice is not Christian in any way.

    I must say, I get tired of the bible wars. I am not saying we should not point out problems with newer versions that really change texts. However, we sometimes scare people from even reading the bible with all the warnings of this one and that one. Many people need an ‘easier’ bible to begin reading. Actual study can make use of several versions. The difference between a paraphrase and an actual translation is a good thing to discuss. The practice of praying that the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of the bible is also a good thing to encourage.

    I recently did a VBS in a church I do not regularly attend. Another woman, who also doesn’t regularly attend that church went on and on how the NIV (the curriculum gave memory verses in both that and the NKJ) changes things so that Jesus is no longer God. I finally spoke up and said I read it and it has never made me think any such thing.

    I like to use a variety of versions. It is helpful during studies. It is also helpful when you find yourself feeling ‘too familiar’ with certain passages. A change in language can make you stop and think about a passage more.

    I sometimes wonder how much the devil laughs at we Christians making things more difficult for those really seeking. 😦

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  52. Kathaleena, 2:38, our kids enjoyed the butterfly garden we purchased through a homeschool supplier many years ago. We got 5 painted lady caterpillars, and kept the butterflies a day or two after they emerged from their chrysalises before releasing them.

    Actually we released only four of the five. One butterfly had deformed wings and couldn’t fly, so we kept that one to keep it from predators.

    I don’t remember exactly what the information with the butterfly kit said about a painted lady’s lifespan, but the butterfly we kept lived very close to the maximum length — maybe something like a day or two short of 6 weeks?

    Not all of our kids were born yet, but the first of our children to be a huge animal lover (the one who is now a vet tech — 2nd Arrow) named all five of those butterflies. Her favorite butterfly, immediately after release, flew out of the garden and right back to land on her shirt and linger a while longer. 😉 And “Rodeo,” the wildest one, was first out of the habitat and immediately flew out of sight. We all laughed at that.

    A wonderful gift for kids.

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  53. Bible versions: I grew up on the KJV, but our denomination switched to the NIV, so I used that for a number of years in my personal Bible reading. However, I did return to the KJV I can’t remember how many years ago now — maybe 15 years?

    My husband bought me an ESV this last Christmas, and I am finding I really enjoy reading that one. I still take my KJV to church and Bible study, but use the KJV, the ESV, and the Geneva Bible in my personal home reading. The NKJV I like, too, and occasionally compare that with other translations at Bible Gateway, but I don’t have my own copy of that translation.

    At both of the Bible studies I attend, people bring different translations, and I like hearing a passage read in more than one version. I think it enhances word studies to hear it a variety of ways.

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  54. When I taught Disciple Bible Study (before the fall) they encouraged reading different versions of the same passage so that you could detect the words that were the same. Our priest often has u s read from different versions so that we can do the same. Something within me rebels against The Message but when I have heard it read it was more as a story not as scripture.

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  55. Donna, Rosemary’s brother attended my church in Nashville, and many people in my church attended BSF. I think it probably had a pretty heavy PCA influence, which could be good or bad–many PCA churches are sound, but some PCA-affiliated programs are not. I think you’d mentioned “Don’t show these notes to anyone” and that is indeed deeply problematic. (That’s what Gothard did, of course.) I mostly heard good things about it from those who were involved–including the requirement (if I remember correctly) for leaders to read the text through in Scripture several times before looking at the notes. But I never attended.

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  56. Not sure if this is what Challies said in the Amazon review of Jesus Calling, but I found this article at his site by googling it.

    http://www.challies.com/book-reviews/jesus-calling

    Sarah is claiming some kind of new revelation from God. She is saying that God speaks to her and that she then passes these messages to others. Immediately we need to ask what she believes about the Bible. Is she claiming that these messages are equal to Scripture? That they trump Scripture?

    She makes no such claim; not directly, anyway. At one point she says, “I knew these writings were not inspired as Scripture is, but they were helping me grow closer to God.” Later she says “The Bible is, of course, the only inerrant [without error] Word of God; my writings must be consistent with that unchanging standard.” But this is all she says. While she clarifies that her writings must be subservient to the Bible, she does not actually tell us what they are or how we are to regard them. Are they authoritative? Are they in any way binding on her or on us? If they are not inspired and not inerrant, what exactly are they? There are no answers forthcoming because immediately Young begins to share those words of God as daily devotionals, saying “I have continued to receive personal messages from God as I meditate on Him. The more difficult my life circumstances, the more I need these encouraging directives from my Creator.”

    James Montgomery Boice once said that the real battle in our times would not be the inerrancy or infallibility of Scripture, but its sufficiency—are we going to rely on the Bible or will we continually long for other revelation? In Jesus Calling we see this so clearly. Young teaches that though the Bible is inerrant and infallible, it is insufficient. It was not enough for her and, implicitly, she teaches that it cannot be enough for us. After all, it was not reading Scripture that proved her most important spiritual discipline, but this listening, this receiving of messages from the Lord. It is not Scripture she brings to us, not primarily anyway, but these messages from Jesus.

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  57. Challies concludes:

    Jesus Calling is, in its own way, a very dangerous book. Though the theology is largely sound enough, my great concern is that it teaches that hearing words directly from Jesus and then sharing these words with others is the normal Christian experience. In fact, it elevates this experience over all others. And this is a dangerous precedent to set. I see no reason that I would ever recommend this book.

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  59. I have a hard time reading anything from The Message. It almost doesn’t seem biblical to call that a Bible. I’m OK with calling it a paraphrase, but to call it a Bible…that doesn’t sit right with me.

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  61. Jensen was a member of them Confessing Evangelical group started by Michael Horton and others in I think the 1990s — and James Boyce was also was on the BSF board and pretty much wrote the notes for the yearlong study in Romans which (naturally) was excellent. The other notes for some of the other studies I thought were sometimes uneven, without the Reformed view.

    They always stressed keeping denominational distinctive a out of the discussions.

    But the thing about keeping the notes so secret always bothered me — still, I learned much through those years.

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  63. Worked up 2 1/2 boxes of peaches. 28 quarts canned. Will take 3 boxes to another daughter tomorrow and help them put them up.

    Peach sorbet sounds wonderful.

    Wehave raised monarch butterflies before. I watched for their caterpillars on the milkweed. So exciting to see them build their chrysalis with it’s gold trim.

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  64. 6 Arrows, the review on amazon seemed to be taken from his website, based on something he said in his first sentence, so I assumed it was a “reprint.” He just wanted people who went to amazon to be able to see it, too, and be warned.

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  66. RKessler, do they tend to put their chrysalises on the milkweed or near it? I ask because just this week a monarch laid eggs on milkweed in our backyard, and I am very strongly wanting to get photos of the caterpillars and of the whole process. (I got photos of her laying eggs and a photo of one of the eggs.) I hope at least some of the caterpillars survive.

    We also have a large female praying mantis out there, but I don’t know if they eat monarch caterpillars. I doubt seriously they would pay attention to something like that when they’re tiny, and by the time they get big a lot of insects won’t touch them, but I don’t know about mantises.

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  68. I like to read from a variety of Bible translations. My guess is that I have read most from the NKJV. Our pastor uses the NIV for services so I generally take that to church. We used Holman Christian Standard for children’s Sunday school so I used that in there. I am reading the NLT One Year Bible with passages from the Old, &New Testaments, Psalms, and Proverbs for each day. I use the In His Image NLT Devotional Bible with my Scripture Union readings. I also use the ESV Reformation Study Bible at times.

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  70. I agree it’s good to use different translations for clarity. I think we mostly use NKJ & ESV at church. I’ve leaned toward the translations that are thought to be the most accurate and literal (word to word) (thus New American Standard & ESV), but sometimes reading a passage in another good translation can really help.

    I remember when I was helping to take care of my elderly aunt years ago I bought her a “good news” Bible. She’d not gone to church in many years (though I did always invite her) but as her health began to fail, she seemed open to hearing the gospel with I shared with her (lamely, I thought at the time, but I trust God used my effort and that the Holy Spirit filled in the rest!).

    But I guess she really didn’t like the Good News paraphrase I bought her (I got that one thinking she needed something really simple and straight forward). But, of course, it sounded nothing like the old King James which was the only other version she’d ever heard in her lifetime. 🙂 Apparently she told one of her granddaughters that she didn’t think it was really the Bible at all.

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  71. I’ve heard that The Message is well received in prison as a place to start for those who have never used a Bible.

    Those of us who were brought up within church attending families have such a different background from those starting from scratch. So some of the easier versions are helpful depending on reading level and exposure to different levels of literature. I hope no one will be judgemental of those who are not on the same level.

    In my brother’s church they are pretty exclusive in using the KJV and he uses a Scoffield KJV which is somehow slightly different which people have noticed.

    I know some people who are enjoying the Jesus Calling book. They are people who have been long time believers so I think they must be discerning of anything that it not right. Maybe they skip over some of it and glean the good.

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  72. Cheryl, I picked th milkweed and raised them in a jar. I don’t know that I have seen a chrysalis in the pasture. I do have some monarch caterpillars on some carrots that went to seed. The year we raised them, I found the caterpillars and identified them with a field guide. It told me what they like to eat, so I gathered some and put it in the jar with the caterpillars. We adied fresh milkweed as they ate it. They made the chrysalis in the jar, and hatched in the jar also. We took jars with caterpillars and extra food for each of the elementary classrooms. We were homeschooling at the time.

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  73. Kim did not look that old when she was here.

    Jesus Calling: the child who was given it is an extremely literal thinker. She would take it all as Gospel and confuse a person’s words with the Truth.

    We had a big lightning storm come through and we have four good size fires within a mile or so of us.

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  74. Janice, I think the problem with Jesus Calling is the author’s rather stunning claim that Jesus is, essentially, directly speaking through her as she writes — thus claiming some kind of special divine authority for what she has written. Based on that, she’s claiming to be a conduit of some kind for what is extra-biblical direct and special revelation.

    That premise itself is enough to keep me far away from it.

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  76. The fire is across the canyon but the wind turned and it went to the bottom of the canyon. If it comes up this side, we will probably leave. If it crests the hill and starts down, we will for sure. The trailers are all in place and plans are ready to get the animals in if needed. Feel free to pray for us, our neighbors, and the fire fighters. Thanks.

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