Welcome to my day. I took a new path around the neighborhood. It was a very slow walk because I kept stopping to take pictures of the view.
I hate vacuuming because of the noise. So today I finally hauled it out. In the past my haus meris have vacuumed. Well I found out today that they had not emptied the bag, so that was the first job and the dirt was really packed in there. Place is looking better now. I do take off my shoes as soon as I come inside.
Good evening Jo.
Good morning everyone else.
I see on the news that a skydiver made a good catch of some kind.
Aren’t you thankful that this is the most important news today?
There is a volcano erupting in St. Vincent in the Caribbean. A couple we know is living there while he attends the medical school. They are on the other end of the island, so aren’t being evacuated, but he has sent photos of how they can clearly see the ash plume by day and the lava flows by night and their car is coated in a layer of ash. Glad I’m not the one living there, as my asthma would be terribly irritated. Well, in their last email update, they were saying masks were mandatory, due to fresh COVID outbreaks (being islands, the Caribbean nations have been using quarantine to fairly successfully contain the virus), so the masks might help filter out the ash too.
Good Morning. I had another contract fall apart in the last couple of days. I sent over the release this morning. She lost her husband in January. She shouldn’t be rushing into anything anyway, but she does want to get home and be closer to family.
We had some bad weather move through this morning at 2. The loud BOOM of thunder woke us all this. morning. Mr. P, both dogs, and me. It’s still rolling through.
@Peter, I think I missed that you lost your Dad. I am so sorry.
@Roscuro, it is good to know you have been through surgery and are healing nicely.
Looking at the header reminds me….For the second year we have had a Mama Cardinal build her nest in the sweet olive bush that is just outside the bedroom window. The eggs have hatched. It has been nice to watch.
Little Miss turned 3 Easter Sunday. She has enjoyed watching the birds too.
No. It isn’t obvious.
It is possible, likely really, that a person can be “born again” and not really know what happened. Only that they have a new and different direction in life.
I would think that they don’t know the term for it, but they have the fruit that shows it to be so. It seems to mean you are starting ‘new’ as a true child of God. You have received a new heart in the spiritual sense. You cannot build on the law, but it is a completely new thing. It is The Holy Spirit in you and working in you as you walk by the Spirit.
Kizzie, I think it is sad that children live in a time when The Boy is even aware of this girl going through this. One of the concerns of having boys and girls together in sex education was just this point. Boys and girls lose a natural modesty about their sexuality. Such things used to be considered too special to be shared with every Tom, Dick and Harry. My mother never allowed my brothers to even empty the bathroom garbage, although they did every other garbage in the house, because of what was in it. No questions thought or asked that way. It was not good when many of these things were not discussed at all or taught as they should be, but we seem to have gone the other way. I think it is a mistake. I told my children little by little all about it from quite a young age as it was appropriate, but that is different from sharing these personal things with one another.
Good morning.
Chas’s question:
We are dead people walking. Going about the business of being dead. Maybe rich or famous or poverty stricken or somewhere in the middle. Equally dead. All of our good works mean nothing. Oh, they may help here and there but in the big scheme? Nothing.
And God, in His wisdom and plan, reaches out and makes us alive. We suddenly serve a purpose beyond the here and now. We may hit the ground running or we may take fifty years. But we are made alive. The Spirit of God is now living in us for His purposes. We are part of the Body of Christ, being pruned and nurtured and molded into His tool. Being made holy. Being made perfect (though that is not attained here).
Meanwhile, our one time fellow dead people continue to walk around doing things. Some big, some little. Also being used by their Creator for His purposes but totally oblivious. Like automatons marching to do their duty. Perhaps disdaining us for falling for the Crutch, perhaps not even noticing.
The difference between us and them? Nothing but the will of God. For His purposes, He opened our eyes and made us alive. We may have been in a church for fifty years as the dead man walking. We may have never even seen the inside of a church. But God knows whom He has chosen. And it is in His time.
When we are made alive, nothing can separate us from the love of God. We are His and can not be wrested from His Hand. We cannot go back to being dead. We all reach different levels of maturity but the living God is within us in His Spirit and we will never be the same.
Why can’t private things be private. My friend M often says we have done a disservice to the generation younger than us. We have removed the mystery of sex. It is more like “scratching an itch” than anything special. I can remember being embarrassed if my slip showed from underneath my skirt or dress and I CERTAINLY!!!! didn’t want anyone, especially a male, to see evidence of anything else I might have under my clothes. Even today I have a light weigh cotton tunic on with jeans. I have a cotton camisole under it. Which reminds me, can you even find a slip these day
Born again to me means that we have shed the old and been given a new life. I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, although I have been baptized twice. I was baptized as an infant- sprinkled and again as a 12 year old- dunked. I think it is good anytime we attend a baptism to renew our pledge.
Privacy around menstruation is a cultural custom. Think of the Mosaic law, which made a woman unclean during menstruation – it would have been impossible to keep the fact one was menstruating private – and used a bloodied cloth to prove a maiden’s virginity. Many cultures, including strict Hindu practice, still physically separate menstruating women. Then there was the miracle Jesus performed with the woman who had continual menstrual bleeding – he had her tell him why she had touched his garment before an entire crowd. No, I don’t think that a loss of privacy around menstruation is anything new or necessarily sinister. In fact, during WW II, WASPs (women air service pilots) were prohibited from flying during their period, so their supervisors would have needed to know when they had their periods.
Interesting discussions. I am tempted to allow it to continue without interruption. However.
i believe that when a person is “Born Again” He/she receives a new life that will never die. Jesus says as much in John 11:26. This person will never die. The body may lose it’s ability to function. The person lives forever. It’s something I still don’t completely understand, but know to be a fact.
He that lives and believes in me shall never die. The person that I am will leave this body. Good riddance, I say. But I will live forever. Jesus says as much.
Kim, I think private things ceased to be private about the time that underwear became outer wear. How embarrassing when I was young for your bra strap to show. Now it is a fashion accessory. Not a trend I have ever liked. I was in the parking lot by the garden section listening to a zoom meeting when a young lady pulled up and got out of her car. She had on a dress but you could see her underclothes. I thought to my self”What a pretty girl..she needs a slip”. But then as Kim said, can you even find a slip any more?
Chas’ QoD: I think the full details of Jesus’ dialogue to Nicodemus pretty much explains the concept of being born again:
‘Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.”
‘Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
‘Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
‘Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
‘Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?”
‘Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
“No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in
God.”‘
Mumsee’s right, we were dead in our trespasses and sin — not misguided, not distracted, but dead.
In salvation the first thing that happens is regeneration which comes from God alone. It is He who awakens us, gives us new life in what is a supernatural occurrence, and our awareness of it may be unclear or hazy at first. But the progression then naturally begins as the Holy Spirit guides — it may all feel or seem like it was our idea once we catch on that we’ve changed (more accurately we’ve been changed).
We had a special girls-only assembly in elementary school to show a film about what would be hitting us pretty soon. Most of us had been informed already by our moms (my mom said her mother never gave her a heads up or any information in advance — and she was sure she was dying when she had her first period).
I do remember my second monthly period occurred on one of our long drives to Iowa in the heat of summer. I was not very happy having to use gas station restrooms to deal with this horrible new mess that had befallen me (my aunt and uncle were in charge of the drive that time and they insisted on driving straight through, though we may have stopped for one night only at a motel as my uncle kept nodding off at the wheel — a lovely trip all the way around). When we got to Iowa, my grandmother was alarmed that the first thing my mom was doing was running a bath for me in the old clawfoot bathtub — my grandmother was still under the impression one couldn’t take a bath during that time of month. My mom assured her it was fine.
You know I have crazy and elaborate dreams. Early this morning (after I’d gotten up initially to feed the wailing cat and let the dogs out) I went back to sleep and, in this long and winding dream (that probably only lasted a very short time but seemed like it went on forever) I was going to a movie in a theater in a mall.
The cast of characters included: a mall shooter who (thankfully) was quickly subdued, my pastor and his family and other church members, my veterinarian (both he and my pastor were oddly wearing panama hats), an ex-boyfriend who had his bike with him in the theater, a group of loose dogs who at one point were fighting, a sweet-looking young coyote, and, yes, Nancyjill who was there with her husband but saw me a few rows down and just dashed over to say hi.
I think there were more folks and incidents in that dream, it was quite intricate. The theater had some natural landscaping and there were several intermissions which allowed for the dogs to run loose and conversations to occur and me to always be looking for the restroom and the shouting shooter outside the theater doors to be arrested before we were all killed. I also seemed to be carrying a lot of baggage with me, bags filled with stuff, books, a water bottle, which I had to continually schlep around as I seemed to change seats often. I wondered a few times why I’d brought all of that.
Fascinating dream, DJ. I think you may be considering downsizing more now that you have dealt with so much death in your realm this past year. A logical guess.
I was dreaming the other night, about weird stuff like DJ. I could not remember the youngest daughter’s name of some friends. I have known her for over twenty years, daughter used to go camping with her, her brother has done various odd jobs around here. I would wake up and not be able to remember her name. It bothered me the next day, and husband could not remember either. I could have asked daughter but I was too stubborn. Finally, just as I was going to sleep the next night, I remembered. What a struggle our dreams can bring us.
I realize, roscuro, that cultures differ and that our culture has also changed. I still see no reason to have a young neighbor boy think about the neighbor girl’s period. Call me old fashioned. Teaching boys to be considerate and talking about what happens to girls is one thing. This seems to be another. I just do not understand it. None of my business, of course. Just giving my two cents worth.
My simple thought on “born again”:
We are physically born on our recorded date of birth. We have a second birth, known as “born again,” when we have spiritual birth. It is at the line of demarcation where we emarge out of the unsaved life to the saved. God tugged at us, and we released the old nothing spiritual existence and held on to God and all He offers in the spiritual realm. We never let go. We accept His free gift of faith in Jesus.
I thought about weighing in on the period conversation earlier, but wasn’t quite sure how to express my thoughts. Now I see Kathaleena’s 2:05 and will say, “That’s what I wanted to say!”
Janice at 2:14, I agree that we Christians have experienced both a physical birth and a spiritual birth. I would be careful about this wording regarding the spiritual birth, though: “God tugged at us, and we released the old nothing spiritual existence…”
IMHO, that sounds like God struggled somewhat to save us until we cooperated with his tugging and released ourselves so that we could be saved.
We bring nothing to the table in regards to our salvation. Jesus saved us, and we didn’t help at all in that endeavor.
Downsizing is a good guess. I actually think my toting around bags of “stuff,” though, came from the thought that I still need to get up to Hollywood to pick up all of Carol’s things. It’s a lot, I was warned, numerous heavy bags (which was what Carol always had with her and got loaded in and out of the Jeep even if we were just going for a short outing). I was thinking yesterday that I could get up early today and do it — as I have to work for a couple hours this afternoon to cover something and update a story — so “bags” were somewhat on my mind when I went to bed, I think.
And yes, we bring “nothing to the table,” not even a yearning, really (until we are regenerated, then the yearning follows that — but again, that was God as the first mover, not us). It’s all God, He chooses, calls and brings about our new life with no help from us.
I’ll also add that Mormonism falsely teaches that there is human cooperation involved in being saved. The Book of Mormon has verses that sound similar to those in the King James Bible, but key scriptural truths are changed.
One example is the wording of a verse that is very much like Ephesians 2:8-9. The Holy Word of God says this:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
The Book of Mormon says it like this (I’m paraphrasing): “For by grace are ye saved, after all you can do…”
They essentially say that humans begin the work of salvation, and God picks up the slack when we can put no more toward the salvation effort.
That, of course, is not what Holy Scripture says. Not only does salvation come by our effort first and God’s second, but salvation also does not occur by God’s effort first and our effort or acceptance second.
It’s all God, all the time. We were saved from before the foundation of the earth was laid.
Ephesians 1: 3-6 —
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
This: “Not only does salvation come by our effort first and God’s second, but salvation also does not occur by God’s effort first and our effort or acceptance second.”…
should read:
“Not only does salvation NOT come by our effort first and God’s second, but salvation also does not occur by God’s effort first and our effort or acceptance second.”
Ephesians 1:6 shows that even “accepting Christ” is something we don’t do. It is clear from Scripture that we were made accepted in the beloved. It is passive; i.e., there was no action on our part to accept Jesus. Salvation is entirely the work of God.
And the question remains, “What is meant by the phrase, “born again'”?
Roscuro, of course, quoted the answer.
But what does that mean? I think Chas nailed it. We are conceived and implanted and grow and then are born into this world.
But being born again? We are conceived of in His mind, and when He chooses, He makes us alive, born again, reborn. This time into the life of the Spirit. God is spirit. We are taken into His Life. The entry is made, not physically, but spiritually. Not as the world views spiritually, but really and truly. We have entered another realm. It is our Home. We are no longer citizens of this world. We are seated with Him in the heavenlies. For all eternity. Our tent will collapse and return to the earth, to be made new in His time. But we continue to be with Him in our spiritual body until we regain our earthly tents as something a whole lot better.
And yet we still must live with one foot still very much planted in the world, we still struggle with sin and temptation and with all the trials common to man.
Clearly, Jesus did. Or He would not have shed drops of blood or wept at the tomb. But that was before He conquered death. And we have Him living in us through His Spirit. Is it because we keep turning back to look, like Lot’s wife?
And I think our sin would follow us even into the desert. lol
Chas, are you trying to make us stop? We’re like the guest panels on TV news that won’t quit, we gab through all the commercials as the frustrated host waves his or her arms.
Of course the obstacles are still here. The opportunity to sin is available. But do we need to? Are we locked in? Or are we free in Christ to make the right choices and not be pained by the challenge?
Mumsee, it isn’t the body that makes us sin. We are sinful, body and soul. And yes, we are unable to totally defeat sin in this life, though we should see growth in sanctification.
Our bodies are not things to be overcome, but rather an integral part of us to be transformed in the work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit. Perfection does not come in this life, “even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body” (Romans 8:23). The Gnostics claimed that spiritual knowledge could transcend the physical and lead to perfection. It was their heresy that John was fighting against throughout his first letter. John warns: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (I John 1:8-9).
True all that. With this body and with this spirit, and the Spirit of God living in us, are we unable to defeat sin? As Paul said, the flesh is weak. Does that mean we cannot hope to conquer? Obviously, I am not there yet nor are any of us. Is it because we can’t? Or because we will not say no to sin?
We are all fallen, sinners. And we will be made new. We are called to be like Him. We cannot do it ourselves but we have Him living in us. We have a new heart.
Romans 6, we are freed from sin and slaves to God.
Seems like that might be saying we are no longer required to sin. Of course, we still have the result of our sin destroying this earth and these bodies. That remains to be perfected. But it seems to me, if we are slaves to righteousness, it must be available with Him living in us.
If we could reach perfection in this life, there would be no need for the Resurrection. That would be horrible, because we would have go on living in a sinful world: “If we have put our hope in Christ for this life only, we should be pitied more than anyone” (I Corinthians 15:19). We cannot reach perfection, because we are waiting for the completion of our salvation in the resurrection of our bodies (I Corinthians 15:47-48).
Chas, that is where I am leaning. We had to have the Resurrection as that was how we know He defeated sin. He defeated sin but did not remove us from this world. We choose to continue to sin. Our old nature? The flesh? We are no longer captives of it, but we choose to.
Jumping in to respond to the comments about Boy and Gabby and periods.
I really think it is a “generational difference”. Like many of you, my mom and I kept things quiet and hidden from my dad and brother. But I remember once when Dad came across something (of mine) that was accidentally not as hidden as it should have been, and his disgusted reaction made me feel so dirty and disgusting myself. 😦
The current generations may go to the other extreme of sharing too much, but some of that, I think, can be healthy. To Boy and Gabby, periods are just a natural part of life, and not something to be ashamed of, although there is a little embarrassment at their age, which is probably good, too. I think Boy has also learned from his mom that this time of month can be hard on a girl, so he will be compassionate and understanding to his wife some day.
But yes, I understand how very different this all seems from the way many of us were raised, and can make us feel uncomfortable to hear about how casually kids are talking about it.
I think puberty also is hitting earlier than it once did, along with the fact that we live in a culture that’s very different — nothing is not talked about or even graphically depicted in some corners of the media. Young people have access to so much now that I’m sure there’s little they don’t know about, whether their parents are aware they know or not.
So yeah, I’d say it’s gone a little far in the overexposure category now, but no putting the cork back in that bottle. I guess Gabby doesn’t mind? I felt bad for her, actually, unless she was sharing the “news” herself. For me it was just such a gross thing to deal with personally that it certainly wasn’t something I’d have wanted to be a topic of casual conversation among folks generally.
But kids grow up a whole lot faster now, for better or worse.
It’s not a question of shame so much, just of personal privacy that seems like a good thing to have a sense of that that age (as they are still quite immature, obviously).
I also think girls can be so vulnerable to teasing and disrespect at that age. Some boys can be such jerks, they can too easily weaponize that personal knowledge.
Of course, in high school the tables kind of get turned and some girls can be incredibly mean and petty (though that’s largely aimed at other girls).
Such a lovely time of life, growing up once those early double-digit ages roll around.
So I watched the 2018 film about DeLorean tonight, I really didn’t know much about him and didn’t follow the case in the early ’80s.
The FBI informant was sent to Boise ID in the witness protection program, supposedly. He had a DeLorean car, though, so I wonder if that would have stood out some?
I guess I’m all alone here and I need to get to bed. I noticed on the dog walk that we have new folks moving into the nice Craftsman rental home 3 doors down, that’s such a cute house.
Thinking on my simple comment about born again. I totally am on board that it is God who did all the work of salvation for all sins of all humanity. God had the perfect plan for all time and all people. On His level He chooses who He will, but He wants all to be saved. It is difficult to reconcile that in my mind. How does He choose who won’t be saved? Perhaps that is where free will comes in. He chose to give free will as His basis for His choice? But being omniscient He already knows us from before we were physically born and what route we would take. We absolutely do no work for the point of salvation. But spiritual growth does take work, pressing on, hanging in with Him to reach one’s potential as a mature Christian. And God does not cancel our salvation over the issue of rejection of free will or predestination.
That is a nice picture in the header. Meant to mention that yesterday. Good morning everyone.
I didn’t feel ashamed, Kizzie, My parents never made sexuality or things like that as something of which to be ashamed. I think of it more in the sense in which Paul says in 1Cor. 12:23b “…and the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,…” Paul is talking about the members of a church, but it does reflect on how the body was treated. It also would seem that certain subjects would also be treated with modesty. Modesty is something taught.
We no longer think ankles showing is immodest and each culture is different about what is modest in speech and dress. (I would not want us to go the direction of extremist Muslims who think women need to be totally covered!) Our culture has changed immensely, so, yes, there is a big difference in the generations.
What is talked about casually later in dating situations is one aspect of the whole discussion.
Predators also like the lines blurring, since they often use that immodesty for their own means of using pornography.
It all seems like such a small thing like so many other things we just do without a lot of thought.
The aspect of a boy being more respectful of girls is a positive, of course, and is something that should always be taught however it might be taught.
I agree with KI on this. Not shameful, but private. People are now so “comfortable” with these things, that they often now believe:
thongs are not sandals and can be worn to the beach
bras go on the outside
spending the night with girlfriends and boyfriends is fine
multiple sex partners is important in case you don’t want to marry
multiple sex partners is important so you don’t marry the wrong one
divorce is a viable option is something better comes along
divorce is a viable option if your spouse does not understand you
they can choose what other people call them as far as pronouns
it is okay to kill that baby if it is inconvenient in any way
Little things build into many things.
My brothers knew but also knew better than to mention it. When going on the regular week long backpacking trip with dad and brothers, my mom would tell me that if I needed a pad, dad had them for me and I should just let him know. It was not invisible, it was private.
One of my college friends told me that when she started her period, her dad bought her a bouquet of roses and maybe a card too, I don’t remember. But anyway, he bought her flowers to celebrate her becoming a woman, and she thought that was sweet.
A year later he bought her flowers again, for the “anniversary.” That struck her as icky, and her mom quietly told him once was enough.
I think young girls quite naturally have a sense of shyness about such private things, at least in general. I counseled at camp a week each year about ten times in my late teens and up till about the age of thirty (so a quarter century ago now, and girls might possibly be different). One thing I noticed was this: girls of eight or nine would strip totally naked when they were getting ready for bed, and do so with no sense of self-consciousness at all. But I never ever saw a girl of ten or above (except once a group of black teens and preteens changing into their swimsuits to go to the pool) change for bed without turning her back on the room, at least by the time it was time to take off her underwear. These were different girls over more than a decade and in three states, so it couldn’t have been parental training. There was a natural shyness about covering the body as puberty approaches, whether or not the girl has any visible signs of it.
And yes, different cultures “cover” different things–the range of how cultures treat breastfeeding is just one example. But I think this sense itself, in whatever its specific form, is a God-given protection of sexuality, keeping it hidden for the marriage bed. Men don’t seem to have an equivalent sense, at least not to the same degree.
Cheryl and others, yes, good points that I agree with and was trying to articulate — it’s a privacy issue, not a “shame” issue. There is a natural protectiveness young girls have, which is (I think) appropriate. It’s information that most of us would not have trusted just ‘anyone’ to know about. Allowing it to be chatted about freely by numerous people could easily backfire, in my opinion — unless people (and especially pubescent boys) have changed since I was growing up, and I doubt they have.
Jo, so where were you last night? I kept thinking, well, at least Jo should be showing up soon … haha. There I was, all alone just chattering away.
If I’d stayed up later, maybe Chas would have even made an appearance.
I’m looking forward to church this morning, I thought getting back to the in-person “routine” might be a difficult transition, but it’s wonderful, even having to get up a little earlier than I’m used to on weekends. Our sermon topic is “And God Saw That It Was Good” — Jeremiah 44:17, 22-23; Ecclesiastes 8:11 — as part of our lead-in to the book of Revelation which is coming next.
The sermon this morning was from Mark 7:1-23, about what is clean and unclean. The pastor noted that the Pharisees, in order to ensure the ceremonial law of unclean and clean was kept, had fenced that law with over 600 additional regulations, to ensure the law was kept. That reminded me of Paul’s warning against those who fenced the Gospel with “Touch not, taste not, handle not” in his Epistle to the Colossians (2:16-23). The pastor went on to the conclusion of Jesus’ rebuke of the Pharisees:
‘Summoning the crowd again, He told them, “Listen to Me, all of you, and understand: Nothing that goes into a person from outside can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him. If anyone has ears to hear, he should listen!”
‘When He went into the house away from the crowd, the disciples asked Him about the parable. And He said to them, “Are you also as lacking in understanding? Don’t you realize that nothing going into a man from the outside can defile him? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated.” (As a result, He made all foods clean.)
‘Then He said, “What comes out of a person—that defiles him. For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, promiscuity, stinginess, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person.”‘
The pastor pointed out that Jesus was saying all of us were defiled by our own hearts, but he also pointed out the hope, how Jesus had, before this, done several miracles for those who were ceremonially unclean: the leper, the Gadarene demoniac who lived in the tombs, the woman who had bled for 10 years, the dead daughter of Jairus (touching a dead body made one unclean according to the law), showing his power to cleanse the uncleanness of our hearts.
My sister-in-law who is a firstborn told me her mom had never spoken to her about periods before SIL started them, so, remembering how freaked out she had felt having that happen for the first time without knowledge of what it was, she made sure to tell her younger sisters about it so they wouldn’t similarly be taken by surprise when their time came.
Obviously, that’s not a good situation when a girl isn’t prepared for that future event. It needs to be talked about. But pre-pubescent boys don’t need to be told about the neighbor girl’s menses, much less participate in a hands-on activity putting together a period kit for said neighbor girl, even with things as innocuous as chocolate and flowers. That’s my opinion. It doesn’t need to be called to a young boy’s attention. Period.
(Sorry.)
My girls would be embarrassed/horrified to know that some boy acquaintance was thinking about their period, and I don’t believe they’re in the minority.
I remember being in high school and having a unit on swimming during phy ed. We actually had a swimming pool at our high school. We girls (boys had separate phy ed classes) could tell which of us had their periods (and didn’t use tampons), because they (and I myself) would have to sit on the sidelines during that unit when it was “that time of the month.” Even that, in the company of only females, was rather an uncomfortable feeling, at least to me. I didn’t really like having anyone know I was menstruating.
Carrying a purse at school in those days — we didn’t have backpacks in the 70s — was like a walking advertisement to everyone that you had your period. Obviously, I didn’t like that, either, so I switched to those little o.b. tampons that would fit in your pocket so I didn’t have to carry a purse specifically for that time of the month.
Well, one day I either had too many tampons in my pocket and/or the Levi’s cords pockets weren’t deep enough to keep them in. I sat down in a classroom and, unbeknownst to me, one of the tampons fell out onto the floor next to my desk. The boy behind me tapped me on the shoulder, pointed at the thing on the floor, and said, “You dropped something.”
He wasn’t acting silly or ridiculing or anything like that — it was just a statement of fact — but I was horribly embarrassed that that had happened.
I don’t know that girls these days are any different. I would think most girls would feel some sense of embarrassment knowing that male classmates or neighbors know that they’re on their period.
I think that if Gabby had said something to Boy about her period, that would be one thing. (Though it’s hard for me to imagine why a young girl would want to talk about that with the neighbor boy, even being friends.) But it sounds like this was a group of moms talking at the bus stop about Gabby’s period, and somehow from there the information got transmitted to Boy. I have a hard time seeing how any young girl would feel perfectly comfortable with a situation like that. My daughters and, I believe, my female students of that level of physical development would feel quite uncomfortable about male peers knowing they’re currently on their periods. I don’t think, deep down, their modesty is a mostly lost commodity in our culture today.
I don’t know when it was. I knew women had periods before I married, but I was not aware of it when I was growing up. I had/have a sister. I still didn’t know anything about it.
I don’t recall ever seeing a pad in the trash.
We had a wonderful sermon on prayer that was based on the church Bible reading plan for this week. I felt encouraged to hear the pastor speak on prayer for it has seemd the ladies at church are more engaged with prayer than the men.
Immediately after the church service ended (I saw it via Facebook Live) a mower cranked up across the street.😀
Janice, no one (of the younger generation, especially) has a concept of a “Sabbath” anymore. It’s just another day to do something you didn’t have time for during the “work week”,
I only found out about periods because one day some girls saw a discarded pad in the girl’s restroom at my elementary school. We had one girl who had failed maybe two grades so I think it was from her. We, the younger girls, had whisperings about what it was, and I think someone said to ask your mom about it. I do not think my mother would have told me until we later had the segregated girls private teaching on the subject at school and she was forced into it.
I think things of a private nature are so used in advertising on television (I personally hate all those ads for those men’s products and personal products for women) that children are much more aware of those topics which they should be free from awareness of at their ages. We are in a time of secular celebration of things in the sexual arena. For those not guided by Christian beliefs regarding modesty, then I have an understanding of the situation. In a sense it is making a deal out of the difference between being a boy and a girl. This discussion has even made me wonder if those guys who are trans and become “women” ever experience having a period. Logically I think not. Real women have periods! God made that difference. I guess that could be a positive spin on such a celebration in this mixed up world we are passing through.
To date, transgender procedures do not include uterine transplants into those who were born male. So menstruation is not possible for those who identify as transwomen. That fact has triggered the more extreme elements within transgenderism to call for a reclassification of those born with female organs to something like ‘people with a vagina’. It is that kind of reclassification which has kindled the backlash of feminists against the transgender movement, in protest that biological women are being erased.
All this talk about “transgender ism” would be funny if it weren’t so serious.
Lots of people messing up their lives because they think they are smarter than God.
I regard the real threat to human dignity as not lying in the loss of privacy, but in the corrupt cultural habit of turning essential bodily functions into subjects of mockery. It was Ham’s laughter at Noah’s nakedness that was cursed. As a nurse, I see the most intimate details of my clients, but I never treat it as humourous and making such jokes in the healthcare field is regarded as a form of sexual harrassment. Paul warned against filthiness and foolish jesting. I was recently in the care of total strangers for a problem related to my female organs and I had to rust them to maintain my dignity as I was unconscious. It would be no bad thing for the culture to acquire a sense of responsibility towards maintaining the dignity of other humans in their essential body functions.
Chas, there is nothing new under the sun. It is clear from the law of Moses that the widespread cultural practice of making eunuchs was not acceptable to God, as eunuchs were forbidden to enter the congregation. Yet, God still redeemed individual eunuchs and made them into clean vessels for his use.
Roscuro, I agree with your 1:20 regarding maintaining the dignity of other humans in their bodily functions. But age and maturity need to be considerations when we speak of acquiring that sense of responsibility.
Women in the military, women receiving medical care, those topics have come up in this conversation. These are women who are serving with and/or are receiving care from other adults.
But it’s not the same scenario as the question of whether it’s appropriate for a 10- or 11-year-old boy to be made aware of a specific neighbor girl’s menstruation. Can he not be taught to treat females with dignity and respect without being told about the neighbor girl’s period at this stage of his life? Is telling Boy that Gabby has her period the only way, or the best way, for him to learn compassion for females?
My biggest concern with Boy is that he’s already in the position of sometimes “having to be the adult” because of his dad’s mental condition. Does Boy really need the added burden of having to know how challenging it can be for girls when they have their periods, when he’s not mature enough to have a relationship with a girl that could lead to marriage very soon?
I may be overstepping my bounds in this conversation, and certainly don’t know Boy or Gabby like Kizzie and Nightingale do, but from my viewpoint, limited as it may be, it seems to me that Boy has received more information than is necessary.
The questions of who, when, why should be considered: who needs to know about the girl’s period; when should they know; why should they know (at all, or at this time rather than some other time)?
6, I really do not want to comment on the specifics of Boy and his family and friend, because I do not know the full facts of the case and we only know the family through Kizzie, and Kizzie isn’t the decision maker regarding Boy’s learning. But as regards when people should start assuming responsibility for caring for the dignity of others, it should start in childhood. Second was seven when Youngest was born, and one day Second astonished my mother by changing Youngest’s diaper while my mother was busy elsewhere. Elder siblings may frequently be engaged in the care of younger siblings – Tiny, for example, when being babysat by my parents often helps my mother out with Sixth’s diaper changes by getting the wipes and a fresh diaper, as my mother’s mobility is limited – and so from the beginning need to be taught respect for the dignity of their infant sibling(s). Of all the awful material put out by ATI, one of the worst I remember was a newsletter which was talking about an adolescent boy, whose family was part of the program, who was discovered to have abused his younger siblings. ATI’s foolish curative measures included having the offender write what he thought were the root causes of this crime, which they then published in their newsletter. The young sociopath blamed his crime on his younger sisters childish behaviour, saying they were not always modest when they played. The young pervert’s sick claims were repeated as if they were a valid concern, instead of parents being told to ensure that their children had respect and love for each other. Parents need to teach their children to care for the dignity of their siblings, because a child who mocks or abuses a sibling will not scruple to mock and abuse anyone else.
Wow! ATI was really corrupt on that. Very sad for all involved. As one who lived in a neighborhood where a young boy sociopath lived who abused girls in the neighborhood, I shudder to think how the publicity that ATI put forth would have affected the victims and their families. My mother caught the boy in process and stopped it, but my friend on the street did not have a situation in which anyone stopped him. The boy’s family ended up moving.
Janice, ATI also taught that sexual abuse only damaged the body which was, according to their nearly Gnostic teaching, the “least important” part of one’s being. Basically, their material on abuse said cheer up, it could have been worse, so don’t let it get you down. It really wasn’t surprising when multiple young women came forward to say Gothard had groomed and touched them inappropriately, as the material put out by his organization had already sheltered abusers from consequences.
Roscuro, 3:02, thanks for your reply. I’m in full agreement that training to treat others with dignity should begin in childhood. My older kids helped with diapering and other aspects of care with their younger siblings, like you mention with your nieces and nephews. My precocious 5-year-old piano student is apparently quite a help, as well, with her 3-year-old sister and 1-year-old brother.
The question that’s also in my mind besides the who/when/why consideration I mentioned at 2:01 is “how much.” IOW, how much should we reveal about bodily processes to children at any given age?
There is, of course, no clear-cut answer. It’s going to vary, depending on multiple factors, of which we may or may not be aware. I think these kinds of discussions are important to have, though, even without our being able to give one definitive answer. There’s no one-size-fits-all anything about this.
I do hope that Kizzie doesn’t feel targeted by me as I comment on this topic that came up in her family. I apologize if I’ve come across as judgmental.
Regarding ATI: I am so thankful I never grew up with that or even heard about it once I started homeschooling. No homeschoolers in my area ever mentioned that organization, so I don’t think there was much ATI business around here. Vision Forum (Doug Philipps) and No Greater Joy (Michael and Debi Pearl) there was plenty of mention, philosophies not without problems, but not ATI. The blame-the-victim mentality apparent with some of these organizations — the splicing and dicing of abuse recipients’ lives to come up with a way to “show” they brought the abuse on themselves — is, in a word, disgusting.
A summation in response to one of our Q&A SS questions today spoke to our ability to sin or not to sin, a topic we were on a day or so ago.
He referred to who is the “Four-fold state of man”:
1/ Able to not sin (before the fall of man)
2/ Unable to not sin (post-fall)
3/ Able to sin or not sin (but we do sin) (after being reborn)
4/ Not able to sin (in heaven an in our glorified state where our only desires will be for righteousness)
Question
What is the Fourfold State of Man?
Answer
Augustine (Correction and Grace XXXIII) wrote: The four states of man in relation to sin enumerated by Augustine of Hippo: (a) able to sin, able not to sin (posse peccare, posse non peccare); (b) not able not to sin (non posse non peccare); (c) able not to sin (posse non peccare); and (d) unable to sin (non posse peccare). The first state corresponds to the state of man in innocency, before the Fall; the second the state of the natural man after the Fall; the third the state of the regenerate man; and the fourth the glorified man. This is summarized in the table below:
Pre-Fall Man Post-Fall Man Reborn Man Glorified Man
able to sin able to sin able to sin able to not sin
able to not sin unable to not sin able to not sin unable to sin
++++++++++++++++++++++
Free will means we will freely do what we *want* to do.
On a lighter note, speaking of my 5-year-old student with the big vocabulary, last Monday she came to her lesson and announced how warm it had been on Easter Sunday. She exclaimed, “The temperature got up to 77 degrees Fahrenheit!!”
I had never heard a 5-year-old use the term Fahrenheit before. 🙂
6, both Vision Forum and No Greater Joy had connections to ATI. The Russian orphans the Pearls mentioned in their material as having for several months each year came through ATI’s Training Center in Moscow, and one of ATI’s newsletters featured an article written by the Pearls. For a time in our teens/early 20s we got the Pearls publication and thought well of them – until I realized Michael Pearl preached some troubling doctrines.
Morning Dj and all of you. I am watching a fog bank move across the valley. Monday morning here and I need to get ready for a class of 18 third graders.
I mentioned I have a new 5-year-old student starting tomorrow. That will make three 5-year-olds on Mondays. Except for the 3-year-old on Fridays, those kids are the youngest.
Good morning, Jo. At 5:00 pm here, I’m going to watch a live presentation from a piano teacher/blogger who is in Melbourne. He approaches piano lessons from a creative standpoint — not so much a traditional pedagogy. I have been listening to some podcasts on his website and they have really helped me change some things about my teaching approach.
It was especially a great help in changing the format of the lessons I teach to my high school boy I mentioned a few weeks ago.
I love thinking outside the box with methodology, and I’m hoping this webinar starting soon will be helpful, as well. (And I really believe it will be!) 🙂
Roscuro at 4:30 — ack! I think I had heard that before, about the ATI/NGJ Russian boys connection, but forgot.
I unsubscribed from the NGJ newsletter, too, quite a number of years ago now, due to doctrinal issues.
Janice, at 4:33, I’m quite sure others would be able to explain it better than I, but if by the unpardonable sin you mean blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I think it’s a comfort to remember that, though we all have free will, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is a very deliberate, conscious choice. One doesn’t accidentally blaspheme the Spirit, or commit that sin unawares.
Anyone else want to add their thoughts to my humble attempts to answer this question? It’s a good question, Janice.
Just gonna jump in here and say that Gabby was delighted with her gifts. She is a bold, extroverted girl. She may have been a bit embarrassed initially when the moms made a big deal about it, but she seemed fine about it later.
But as Roscuro noted, I am not the decision maker on what Boy learns.
The less I know, the better. I will go as far as picking up supplies at the store for it if you are very specific about what product. Other than that, it’s a need to know thing, and I don’t need to know anything about it. 🙂
Met the young gentleman caller for my daughter this afternoon. He’s nice, well mannered, (got my daughter’s door and stuff, yes, I noticed) a believer, of course. Seems pretty smart, works to pay for school, polite. I took it easy on him, the questioning will get more serious when/if they do. But they both seem quite smitten, or twitterpated by one another if you prefer. 🙂 I managed to not make gagging sounds too.
The cardinal is a handsome young man who has taken up residence in the large bush he’s in. He’s out calling to the ladies first thing in the morning, and again at dusk. No takers yet, but he keeps singing. He’s gorgeous, and I have more shots too. 🙂
“But then as Kim said, can you even find a slip any more?”
My wife tried, even on JC Penney, couldn’t find one. No more slips.
Women only wear dresses to be sexy, like Jessica Rabbit.
Bob B. It wasn’t until years later that I learned that this was the reason Elvera changed our wedding date by a week.
It was scheduled originally to occur immediately after my graduation from Carolina.
The (live) piano teaching webinar froze up frequently, so I missed a lot during the connection interruptions. I will watch the recording when it is emailed.
The host was funny when he engaged in a little self-deprecating humor at the beginning. The opening visual of the webinar, entitled “After the method book: How to teach intermediate students with direction and confidence,” showed him sitting on a chair to the right of a student who was seated on the piano bench. The speech bubble above the host’s/teacher’s head said something like, “He’s done with method books! Oh, no, what now? Let’s see. I think I’ll try………………….”
The speech bubble above the pleasantly smiling student read, “This guy doesn’t know what he’s doing.” LOL! 😀
It’s still possible to buy slips on amazon, at least full slips. I didn’t check for half slips, since I consider full slips more feminine and less likely to fall down. (Ever have the elastic “give” on a half slip in public?) Anyone looking for such items, if you see “bamboo” ones advertised, know that the resulting fabric is very silky and luscious.
I suspect slips aren’t as common partly because dresses went “out” for a while, and also because a lot of dresses now come with their own linings.
I haven’t actually tried to buy a slip in, well, ages it seems like. I used to wear a lot of skirts for work but have moved to mostly pants. But I do remember having a hard time finding a slip the last time I had to buy one, was somewhat surprised when I was actually looking in a department store and they seemed non-existent.
HA!! I bought bamboo underwear! Hoping no one reads this! 🙂 It is soft but for this damp place with no dryer it can take days to dry after washing. How is that for some humor???
I found my Bible verse to memorize for this week in my Bible study guide, 2 Corinthians 3:18 and looked at several versions trying to pick the best wording for memory work. I found the best in the MEV (Modern English Version):
“But we all, seeing the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, as in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory by the Spirit of the Lord.”
The study guide uses the NLT version,
“So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.”
Wandering Views 
Welcome to my day. I took a new path around the neighborhood. It was a very slow walk because I kept stopping to take pictures of the view.
I hate vacuuming because of the noise. So today I finally hauled it out. In the past my haus meris have vacuumed. Well I found out today that they had not emptied the bag, so that was the first job and the dirt was really packed in there. Place is looking better now. I do take off my shoes as soon as I come inside.
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Good evening Jo.
Good morning everyone else.
I see on the news that a skydiver made a good catch of some kind.
Aren’t you thankful that this is the most important news today?
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There is a volcano erupting in St. Vincent in the Caribbean. A couple we know is living there while he attends the medical school. They are on the other end of the island, so aren’t being evacuated, but he has sent photos of how they can clearly see the ash plume by day and the lava flows by night and their car is coated in a layer of ash. Glad I’m not the one living there, as my asthma would be terribly irritated. Well, in their last email update, they were saying masks were mandatory, due to fresh COVID outbreaks (being islands, the Caribbean nations have been using quarantine to fairly successfully contain the virus), so the masks might help filter out the ash too.
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Good Morning. I had another contract fall apart in the last couple of days. I sent over the release this morning. She lost her husband in January. She shouldn’t be rushing into anything anyway, but she does want to get home and be closer to family.
We had some bad weather move through this morning at 2. The loud BOOM of thunder woke us all this. morning. Mr. P, both dogs, and me. It’s still rolling through.
@Peter, I think I missed that you lost your Dad. I am so sorry.
@Roscuro, it is good to know you have been through surgery and are healing nicely.
What else have I missed?
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Looking at the header reminds me….For the second year we have had a Mama Cardinal build her nest in the sweet olive bush that is just outside the bedroom window. The eggs have hatched. It has been nice to watch.
Little Miss turned 3 Easter Sunday. She has enjoyed watching the birds too.
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QoD
I have an opinion. And I will discuss it later.
But for now, what do you think?
What is meant by the phrase “Born Again”. Jesus said that a person must be Born Again to enter the Kingdom of God.
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No. It isn’t obvious.
It is possible, likely really, that a person can be “born again” and not really know what happened. Only that they have a new and different direction in life.
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I would think that they don’t know the term for it, but they have the fruit that shows it to be so. It seems to mean you are starting ‘new’ as a true child of God. You have received a new heart in the spiritual sense. You cannot build on the law, but it is a completely new thing. It is The Holy Spirit in you and working in you as you walk by the Spirit.
Kizzie, I think it is sad that children live in a time when The Boy is even aware of this girl going through this. One of the concerns of having boys and girls together in sex education was just this point. Boys and girls lose a natural modesty about their sexuality. Such things used to be considered too special to be shared with every Tom, Dick and Harry. My mother never allowed my brothers to even empty the bathroom garbage, although they did every other garbage in the house, because of what was in it. No questions thought or asked that way. It was not good when many of these things were not discussed at all or taught as they should be, but we seem to have gone the other way. I think it is a mistake. I told my children little by little all about it from quite a young age as it was appropriate, but that is different from sharing these personal things with one another.
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Good morning.
Chas’s question:
We are dead people walking. Going about the business of being dead. Maybe rich or famous or poverty stricken or somewhere in the middle. Equally dead. All of our good works mean nothing. Oh, they may help here and there but in the big scheme? Nothing.
And God, in His wisdom and plan, reaches out and makes us alive. We suddenly serve a purpose beyond the here and now. We may hit the ground running or we may take fifty years. But we are made alive. The Spirit of God is now living in us for His purposes. We are part of the Body of Christ, being pruned and nurtured and molded into His tool. Being made holy. Being made perfect (though that is not attained here).
Meanwhile, our one time fellow dead people continue to walk around doing things. Some big, some little. Also being used by their Creator for His purposes but totally oblivious. Like automatons marching to do their duty. Perhaps disdaining us for falling for the Crutch, perhaps not even noticing.
The difference between us and them? Nothing but the will of God. For His purposes, He opened our eyes and made us alive. We may have been in a church for fifty years as the dead man walking. We may have never even seen the inside of a church. But God knows whom He has chosen. And it is in His time.
When we are made alive, nothing can separate us from the love of God. We are His and can not be wrested from His Hand. We cannot go back to being dead. We all reach different levels of maturity but the living God is within us in His Spirit and we will never be the same.
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Why can’t private things be private. My friend M often says we have done a disservice to the generation younger than us. We have removed the mystery of sex. It is more like “scratching an itch” than anything special. I can remember being embarrassed if my slip showed from underneath my skirt or dress and I CERTAINLY!!!! didn’t want anyone, especially a male, to see evidence of anything else I might have under my clothes. Even today I have a light weigh cotton tunic on with jeans. I have a cotton camisole under it. Which reminds me, can you even find a slip these day
Born again to me means that we have shed the old and been given a new life. I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, although I have been baptized twice. I was baptized as an infant- sprinkled and again as a 12 year old- dunked. I think it is good anytime we attend a baptism to renew our pledge.
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Privacy around menstruation is a cultural custom. Think of the Mosaic law, which made a woman unclean during menstruation – it would have been impossible to keep the fact one was menstruating private – and used a bloodied cloth to prove a maiden’s virginity. Many cultures, including strict Hindu practice, still physically separate menstruating women. Then there was the miracle Jesus performed with the woman who had continual menstrual bleeding – he had her tell him why she had touched his garment before an entire crowd. No, I don’t think that a loss of privacy around menstruation is anything new or necessarily sinister. In fact, during WW II, WASPs (women air service pilots) were prohibited from flying during their period, so their supervisors would have needed to know when they had their periods.
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Interesting discussions. I am tempted to allow it to continue without interruption. However.
i believe that when a person is “Born Again” He/she receives a new life that will never die. Jesus says as much in John 11:26. This person will never die. The body may lose it’s ability to function. The person lives forever. It’s something I still don’t completely understand, but know to be a fact.
He that lives and believes in me shall never die. The person that I am will leave this body. Good riddance, I say. But I will live forever. Jesus says as much.
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Kim, I think private things ceased to be private about the time that underwear became outer wear. How embarrassing when I was young for your bra strap to show. Now it is a fashion accessory. Not a trend I have ever liked. I was in the parking lot by the garden section listening to a zoom meeting when a young lady pulled up and got out of her car. She had on a dress but you could see her underclothes. I thought to my self”What a pretty girl..she needs a slip”. But then as Kim said, can you even find a slip any more?
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Many girls/women don’t know what a slip is. 😦
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Chas’ QoD: I think the full details of Jesus’ dialogue to Nicodemus pretty much explains the concept of being born again:
‘Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.”
‘Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
‘Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
‘Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
‘Nicodemus said to him, “How can these things be?”
‘Jesus answered him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and yet you do not understand these things? Truly, truly, I say to you, we speak of what we know, and bear witness to what we have seen, but you do not receive our testimony. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
“No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in
God.”‘
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Mumsee’s right, we were dead in our trespasses and sin — not misguided, not distracted, but dead.
In salvation the first thing that happens is regeneration which comes from God alone. It is He who awakens us, gives us new life in what is a supernatural occurrence, and our awareness of it may be unclear or hazy at first. But the progression then naturally begins as the Holy Spirit guides — it may all feel or seem like it was our idea once we catch on that we’ve changed (more accurately we’ve been changed).
We had a special girls-only assembly in elementary school to show a film about what would be hitting us pretty soon. Most of us had been informed already by our moms (my mom said her mother never gave her a heads up or any information in advance — and she was sure she was dying when she had her first period).
I do remember my second monthly period occurred on one of our long drives to Iowa in the heat of summer. I was not very happy having to use gas station restrooms to deal with this horrible new mess that had befallen me (my aunt and uncle were in charge of the drive that time and they insisted on driving straight through, though we may have stopped for one night only at a motel as my uncle kept nodding off at the wheel — a lovely trip all the way around). When we got to Iowa, my grandmother was alarmed that the first thing my mom was doing was running a bath for me in the old clawfoot bathtub — my grandmother was still under the impression one couldn’t take a bath during that time of month. My mom assured her it was fine.
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I thought back to that passage as well – and how the wind/Spirit blows where it wishes.
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You know I have crazy and elaborate dreams. Early this morning (after I’d gotten up initially to feed the wailing cat and let the dogs out) I went back to sleep and, in this long and winding dream (that probably only lasted a very short time but seemed like it went on forever) I was going to a movie in a theater in a mall.
The cast of characters included: a mall shooter who (thankfully) was quickly subdued, my pastor and his family and other church members, my veterinarian (both he and my pastor were oddly wearing panama hats), an ex-boyfriend who had his bike with him in the theater, a group of loose dogs who at one point were fighting, a sweet-looking young coyote, and, yes, Nancyjill who was there with her husband but saw me a few rows down and just dashed over to say hi.
I think there were more folks and incidents in that dream, it was quite intricate. The theater had some natural landscaping and there were several intermissions which allowed for the dogs to run loose and conversations to occur and me to always be looking for the restroom and the shouting shooter outside the theater doors to be arrested before we were all killed. I also seemed to be carrying a lot of baggage with me, bags filled with stuff, books, a water bottle, which I had to continually schlep around as I seemed to change seats often. I wondered a few times why I’d brought all of that.
Analyze that! Oy.
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You are crazy. Done analyzing.
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Thanks. I needed that.
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You are welcome.
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Fascinating dream, DJ. I think you may be considering downsizing more now that you have dealt with so much death in your realm this past year. A logical guess.
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I was dreaming the other night, about weird stuff like DJ. I could not remember the youngest daughter’s name of some friends. I have known her for over twenty years, daughter used to go camping with her, her brother has done various odd jobs around here. I would wake up and not be able to remember her name. It bothered me the next day, and husband could not remember either. I could have asked daughter but I was too stubborn. Finally, just as I was going to sleep the next night, I remembered. What a struggle our dreams can bring us.
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I realize, roscuro, that cultures differ and that our culture has also changed. I still see no reason to have a young neighbor boy think about the neighbor girl’s period. Call me old fashioned. Teaching boys to be considerate and talking about what happens to girls is one thing. This seems to be another. I just do not understand it. None of my business, of course. Just giving my two cents worth.
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My simple thought on “born again”:
We are physically born on our recorded date of birth. We have a second birth, known as “born again,” when we have spiritual birth. It is at the line of demarcation where we emarge out of the unsaved life to the saved. God tugged at us, and we released the old nothing spiritual existence and held on to God and all He offers in the spiritual realm. We never let go. We accept His free gift of faith in Jesus.
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Good afternoon.
I thought about weighing in on the period conversation earlier, but wasn’t quite sure how to express my thoughts. Now I see Kathaleena’s 2:05 and will say, “That’s what I wanted to say!”
Janice at 2:14, I agree that we Christians have experienced both a physical birth and a spiritual birth. I would be careful about this wording regarding the spiritual birth, though: “God tugged at us, and we released the old nothing spiritual existence…”
IMHO, that sounds like God struggled somewhat to save us until we cooperated with his tugging and released ourselves so that we could be saved.
We bring nothing to the table in regards to our salvation. Jesus saved us, and we didn’t help at all in that endeavor.
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Downsizing is a good guess. I actually think my toting around bags of “stuff,” though, came from the thought that I still need to get up to Hollywood to pick up all of Carol’s things. It’s a lot, I was warned, numerous heavy bags (which was what Carol always had with her and got loaded in and out of the Jeep even if we were just going for a short outing). I was thinking yesterday that I could get up early today and do it — as I have to work for a couple hours this afternoon to cover something and update a story — so “bags” were somewhat on my mind when I went to bed, I think.
And yes, we bring “nothing to the table,” not even a yearning, really (until we are regenerated, then the yearning follows that — but again, that was God as the first mover, not us). It’s all God, He chooses, calls and brings about our new life with no help from us.
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But it often does feel, experientially, as if we were the ones who “chose” to respond and follow at some point.
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Thanks for the input everyone.
Interesting discussions.
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“And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified” (v. 30).
– Romans 8:29-30
God is the author and finisher of our faith
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Thanks for asking the question, Chas.
I’ll also add that Mormonism falsely teaches that there is human cooperation involved in being saved. The Book of Mormon has verses that sound similar to those in the King James Bible, but key scriptural truths are changed.
One example is the wording of a verse that is very much like Ephesians 2:8-9. The Holy Word of God says this:
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
The Book of Mormon says it like this (I’m paraphrasing): “For by grace are ye saved, after all you can do…”
They essentially say that humans begin the work of salvation, and God picks up the slack when we can put no more toward the salvation effort.
That, of course, is not what Holy Scripture says. Not only does salvation come by our effort first and God’s second, but salvation also does not occur by God’s effort first and our effort or acceptance second.
It’s all God, all the time. We were saved from before the foundation of the earth was laid.
Ephesians 1: 3-6 —
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
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Missed a key “Not” in the above:
This: “Not only does salvation come by our effort first and God’s second, but salvation also does not occur by God’s effort first and our effort or acceptance second.”…
should read:
“Not only does salvation NOT come by our effort first and God’s second, but salvation also does not occur by God’s effort first and our effort or acceptance second.”
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Ephesians 1:6 shows that even “accepting Christ” is something we don’t do. It is clear from Scripture that we were made accepted in the beloved. It is passive; i.e., there was no action on our part to accept Jesus. Salvation is entirely the work of God.
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And the question remains, “What is meant by the phrase, “born again'”?
Roscuro, of course, quoted the answer.
But what does that mean? I think Chas nailed it. We are conceived and implanted and grow and then are born into this world.
But being born again? We are conceived of in His mind, and when He chooses, He makes us alive, born again, reborn. This time into the life of the Spirit. God is spirit. We are taken into His Life. The entry is made, not physically, but spiritually. Not as the world views spiritually, but really and truly. We have entered another realm. It is our Home. We are no longer citizens of this world. We are seated with Him in the heavenlies. For all eternity. Our tent will collapse and return to the earth, to be made new in His time. But we continue to be with Him in our spiritual body until we regain our earthly tents as something a whole lot better.
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And yet we still must live with one foot still very much planted in the world, we still struggle with sin and temptation and with all the trials common to man.
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But do we need to?
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Clearly, Jesus did. Or He would not have shed drops of blood or wept at the tomb. But that was before He conquered death. And we have Him living in us through His Spirit. Is it because we keep turning back to look, like Lot’s wife?
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We are living in the world as a matter of fact, as a result of our physical birth. That doesn’t change.
“Between two worlds” is how it’s often phrased. “Already but not yet” is how the two-kingdom movement within in the Reformed community say it.
So yes, unless we want to go live in the desert with the monks, we face the common life here on this earth.
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Until our physical death
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Interesting discussions. Thanx everyone.
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And I think our sin would follow us even into the desert. lol
Chas, are you trying to make us stop? We’re like the guest panels on TV news that won’t quit, we gab through all the commercials as the frustrated host waves his or her arms.
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Of course the obstacles are still here. The opportunity to sin is available. But do we need to? Are we locked in? Or are we free in Christ to make the right choices and not be pained by the challenge?
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what an articulate group!
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Are you saying DJ talks too much? She is a reporter, it is in her blood.
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Or are you saying I am being locked in by snow and high winds? I suppose I could be playing Risk. Again. Every weekend?
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Ah, so is perfection — completely avoiding all sin — possible on this side of heaven?
My story is done but I’m waiting for the photos …
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Was perfection available to Adam and Eve? Do we have the same opportunity after the rebirth?
Be holy as I am holy.
Does that mean perfection is available to us on this side? Paul obviously struggled with sin.
The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.
Are we then constrained by these bodies and unable to defeat sin?
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Mumsee, it isn’t the body that makes us sin. We are sinful, body and soul. And yes, we are unable to totally defeat sin in this life, though we should see growth in sanctification.
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Our bodies are not things to be overcome, but rather an integral part of us to be transformed in the work of sanctification by the Holy Spirit. Perfection does not come in this life, “even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body” (Romans 8:23). The Gnostics claimed that spiritual knowledge could transcend the physical and lead to perfection. It was their heresy that John was fighting against throughout his first letter. John warns: “If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (I John 1:8-9).
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True all that. With this body and with this spirit, and the Spirit of God living in us, are we unable to defeat sin? As Paul said, the flesh is weak. Does that mean we cannot hope to conquer? Obviously, I am not there yet nor are any of us. Is it because we can’t? Or because we will not say no to sin?
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We are all fallen, sinners. And we will be made new. We are called to be like Him. We cannot do it ourselves but we have Him living in us. We have a new heart.
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Romans 6, we are freed from sin and slaves to God.
Seems like that might be saying we are no longer required to sin. Of course, we still have the result of our sin destroying this earth and these bodies. That remains to be perfected. But it seems to me, if we are slaves to righteousness, it must be available with Him living in us.
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For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Rom 6:14
Even so, consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Rom 6: 11
Yes, we still sin. But where does it say we have to?
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Mumsee, it doesn’t say anywhere that we have to, rather it says we will.
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Romans 7:18
For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
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Roscuro, that is what I am wondering, do we have to? I don’t see that. But I do know that we will, and it says that clearly.
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If we could reach perfection in this life, there would be no need for the Resurrection. That would be horrible, because we would have go on living in a sinful world: “If we have put our hope in Christ for this life only, we should be pitied more than anyone” (I Corinthians 15:19). We cannot reach perfection, because we are waiting for the completion of our salvation in the resurrection of our bodies (I Corinthians 15:47-48).
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If we “have to” we are not culpable for the sin.
We sin because we are sinners. Not that we “have to” but that we have and will sin.
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Chas, that is where I am leaning. We had to have the Resurrection as that was how we know He defeated sin. He defeated sin but did not remove us from this world. We choose to continue to sin. Our old nature? The flesh? We are no longer captives of it, but we choose to.
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Jumping in to respond to the comments about Boy and Gabby and periods.
I really think it is a “generational difference”. Like many of you, my mom and I kept things quiet and hidden from my dad and brother. But I remember once when Dad came across something (of mine) that was accidentally not as hidden as it should have been, and his disgusted reaction made me feel so dirty and disgusting myself. 😦
The current generations may go to the other extreme of sharing too much, but some of that, I think, can be healthy. To Boy and Gabby, periods are just a natural part of life, and not something to be ashamed of, although there is a little embarrassment at their age, which is probably good, too. I think Boy has also learned from his mom that this time of month can be hard on a girl, so he will be compassionate and understanding to his wife some day.
But yes, I understand how very different this all seems from the way many of us were raised, and can make us feel uncomfortable to hear about how casually kids are talking about it.
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I think puberty also is hitting earlier than it once did, along with the fact that we live in a culture that’s very different — nothing is not talked about or even graphically depicted in some corners of the media. Young people have access to so much now that I’m sure there’s little they don’t know about, whether their parents are aware they know or not.
So yeah, I’d say it’s gone a little far in the overexposure category now, but no putting the cork back in that bottle. I guess Gabby doesn’t mind? I felt bad for her, actually, unless she was sharing the “news” herself. For me it was just such a gross thing to deal with personally that it certainly wasn’t something I’d have wanted to be a topic of casual conversation among folks generally.
But kids grow up a whole lot faster now, for better or worse.
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It’s not a question of shame so much, just of personal privacy that seems like a good thing to have a sense of that that age (as they are still quite immature, obviously).
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I also think girls can be so vulnerable to teasing and disrespect at that age. Some boys can be such jerks, they can too easily weaponize that personal knowledge.
Of course, in high school the tables kind of get turned and some girls can be incredibly mean and petty (though that’s largely aimed at other girls).
Such a lovely time of life, growing up once those early double-digit ages roll around.
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Not implying Boy would be that way
So I watched the 2018 film about DeLorean tonight, I really didn’t know much about him and didn’t follow the case in the early ’80s.
The FBI informant was sent to Boise ID in the witness protection program, supposedly. He had a DeLorean car, though, so I wonder if that would have stood out some?
I guess I’m all alone here and I need to get to bed. I noticed on the dog walk that we have new folks moving into the nice Craftsman rental home 3 doors down, that’s such a cute house.
OK, goodnight John Boy and friends.
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Good night, Dj.
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Thinking on my simple comment about born again. I totally am on board that it is God who did all the work of salvation for all sins of all humanity. God had the perfect plan for all time and all people. On His level He chooses who He will, but He wants all to be saved. It is difficult to reconcile that in my mind. How does He choose who won’t be saved? Perhaps that is where free will comes in. He chose to give free will as His basis for His choice? But being omniscient He already knows us from before we were physically born and what route we would take. We absolutely do no work for the point of salvation. But spiritual growth does take work, pressing on, hanging in with Him to reach one’s potential as a mature Christian. And God does not cancel our salvation over the issue of rejection of free will or predestination.
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That is a nice picture in the header. Meant to mention that yesterday. Good morning everyone.
I didn’t feel ashamed, Kizzie, My parents never made sexuality or things like that as something of which to be ashamed. I think of it more in the sense in which Paul says in 1Cor. 12:23b “…and the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty,…” Paul is talking about the members of a church, but it does reflect on how the body was treated. It also would seem that certain subjects would also be treated with modesty. Modesty is something taught.
We no longer think ankles showing is immodest and each culture is different about what is modest in speech and dress. (I would not want us to go the direction of extremist Muslims who think women need to be totally covered!) Our culture has changed immensely, so, yes, there is a big difference in the generations.
What is talked about casually later in dating situations is one aspect of the whole discussion.
Predators also like the lines blurring, since they often use that immodesty for their own means of using pornography.
It all seems like such a small thing like so many other things we just do without a lot of thought.
The aspect of a boy being more respectful of girls is a positive, of course, and is something that should always be taught however it might be taught.
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I agree with KI on this. Not shameful, but private. People are now so “comfortable” with these things, that they often now believe:
thongs are not sandals and can be worn to the beach
bras go on the outside
spending the night with girlfriends and boyfriends is fine
multiple sex partners is important in case you don’t want to marry
multiple sex partners is important so you don’t marry the wrong one
divorce is a viable option is something better comes along
divorce is a viable option if your spouse does not understand you
they can choose what other people call them as far as pronouns
it is okay to kill that baby if it is inconvenient in any way
Little things build into many things.
My brothers knew but also knew better than to mention it. When going on the regular week long backpacking trip with dad and brothers, my mom would tell me that if I needed a pad, dad had them for me and I should just let him know. It was not invisible, it was private.
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One of my college friends told me that when she started her period, her dad bought her a bouquet of roses and maybe a card too, I don’t remember. But anyway, he bought her flowers to celebrate her becoming a woman, and she thought that was sweet.
A year later he bought her flowers again, for the “anniversary.” That struck her as icky, and her mom quietly told him once was enough.
I think young girls quite naturally have a sense of shyness about such private things, at least in general. I counseled at camp a week each year about ten times in my late teens and up till about the age of thirty (so a quarter century ago now, and girls might possibly be different). One thing I noticed was this: girls of eight or nine would strip totally naked when they were getting ready for bed, and do so with no sense of self-consciousness at all. But I never ever saw a girl of ten or above (except once a group of black teens and preteens changing into their swimsuits to go to the pool) change for bed without turning her back on the room, at least by the time it was time to take off her underwear. These were different girls over more than a decade and in three states, so it couldn’t have been parental training. There was a natural shyness about covering the body as puberty approaches, whether or not the girl has any visible signs of it.
And yes, different cultures “cover” different things–the range of how cultures treat breastfeeding is just one example. But I think this sense itself, in whatever its specific form, is a God-given protection of sexuality, keeping it hidden for the marriage bed. Men don’t seem to have an equivalent sense, at least not to the same degree.
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Cheryl and others, yes, good points that I agree with and was trying to articulate — it’s a privacy issue, not a “shame” issue. There is a natural protectiveness young girls have, which is (I think) appropriate. It’s information that most of us would not have trusted just ‘anyone’ to know about. Allowing it to be chatted about freely by numerous people could easily backfire, in my opinion — unless people (and especially pubescent boys) have changed since I was growing up, and I doubt they have.
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Well, men get to wear clothes. They just wear surfer shorts for everything: shopping, basketball, volleyball, beach….
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Jo, so where were you last night? I kept thinking, well, at least Jo should be showing up soon … haha. There I was, all alone just chattering away.
If I’d stayed up later, maybe Chas would have even made an appearance.
I’m looking forward to church this morning, I thought getting back to the in-person “routine” might be a difficult transition, but it’s wonderful, even having to get up a little earlier than I’m used to on weekends. Our sermon topic is “And God Saw That It Was Good” — Jeremiah 44:17, 22-23; Ecclesiastes 8:11 — as part of our lead-in to the book of Revelation which is coming next.
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The sermon this morning was from Mark 7:1-23, about what is clean and unclean. The pastor noted that the Pharisees, in order to ensure the ceremonial law of unclean and clean was kept, had fenced that law with over 600 additional regulations, to ensure the law was kept. That reminded me of Paul’s warning against those who fenced the Gospel with “Touch not, taste not, handle not” in his Epistle to the Colossians (2:16-23). The pastor went on to the conclusion of Jesus’ rebuke of the Pharisees:
‘Summoning the crowd again, He told them, “Listen to Me, all of you, and understand: Nothing that goes into a person from outside can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him. If anyone has ears to hear, he should listen!”
‘When He went into the house away from the crowd, the disciples asked Him about the parable. And He said to them, “Are you also as lacking in understanding? Don’t you realize that nothing going into a man from the outside can defile him? For it doesn’t go into his heart but into the stomach and is eliminated.” (As a result, He made all foods clean.)
‘Then He said, “What comes out of a person—that defiles him. For from within, out of people’s hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immoralities, thefts, murders, adulteries, greed, evil actions, deceit, promiscuity, stinginess, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a person.”‘
The pastor pointed out that Jesus was saying all of us were defiled by our own hearts, but he also pointed out the hope, how Jesus had, before this, done several miracles for those who were ceremonially unclean: the leper, the Gadarene demoniac who lived in the tombs, the woman who had bled for 10 years, the dead daughter of Jairus (touching a dead body made one unclean according to the law), showing his power to cleanse the uncleanness of our hearts.
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My sister-in-law who is a firstborn told me her mom had never spoken to her about periods before SIL started them, so, remembering how freaked out she had felt having that happen for the first time without knowledge of what it was, she made sure to tell her younger sisters about it so they wouldn’t similarly be taken by surprise when their time came.
Obviously, that’s not a good situation when a girl isn’t prepared for that future event. It needs to be talked about. But pre-pubescent boys don’t need to be told about the neighbor girl’s menses, much less participate in a hands-on activity putting together a period kit for said neighbor girl, even with things as innocuous as chocolate and flowers. That’s my opinion. It doesn’t need to be called to a young boy’s attention. Period.
(Sorry.)
My girls would be embarrassed/horrified to know that some boy acquaintance was thinking about their period, and I don’t believe they’re in the minority.
I remember being in high school and having a unit on swimming during phy ed. We actually had a swimming pool at our high school. We girls (boys had separate phy ed classes) could tell which of us had their periods (and didn’t use tampons), because they (and I myself) would have to sit on the sidelines during that unit when it was “that time of the month.” Even that, in the company of only females, was rather an uncomfortable feeling, at least to me. I didn’t really like having anyone know I was menstruating.
Carrying a purse at school in those days — we didn’t have backpacks in the 70s — was like a walking advertisement to everyone that you had your period. Obviously, I didn’t like that, either, so I switched to those little o.b. tampons that would fit in your pocket so I didn’t have to carry a purse specifically for that time of the month.
Well, one day I either had too many tampons in my pocket and/or the Levi’s cords pockets weren’t deep enough to keep them in. I sat down in a classroom and, unbeknownst to me, one of the tampons fell out onto the floor next to my desk. The boy behind me tapped me on the shoulder, pointed at the thing on the floor, and said, “You dropped something.”
He wasn’t acting silly or ridiculing or anything like that — it was just a statement of fact — but I was horribly embarrassed that that had happened.
I don’t know that girls these days are any different. I would think most girls would feel some sense of embarrassment knowing that male classmates or neighbors know that they’re on their period.
I think that if Gabby had said something to Boy about her period, that would be one thing. (Though it’s hard for me to imagine why a young girl would want to talk about that with the neighbor boy, even being friends.) But it sounds like this was a group of moms talking at the bus stop about Gabby’s period, and somehow from there the information got transmitted to Boy. I have a hard time seeing how any young girl would feel perfectly comfortable with a situation like that. My daughters and, I believe, my female students of that level of physical development would feel quite uncomfortable about male peers knowing they’re currently on their periods. I don’t think, deep down, their modesty is a mostly lost commodity in our culture today.
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Donna, @ 10:54
Chas doesn’t have the nerve to touch that subject.
Another way of saying it is: “Chas is too smart to get entangled with this subject.”
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I don’t know when it was. I knew women had periods before I married, but I was not aware of it when I was growing up. I had/have a sister. I still didn’t know anything about it.
I don’t recall ever seeing a pad in the trash.
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Elvera was so regular that she worried if she was a day or two late.
How did i ever get into a subject like this?????????????
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We had a wonderful sermon on prayer that was based on the church Bible reading plan for this week. I felt encouraged to hear the pastor speak on prayer for it has seemd the ladies at church are more engaged with prayer than the men.
Immediately after the church service ended (I saw it via Facebook Live) a mower cranked up across the street.😀
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Janice, no one (of the younger generation, especially) has a concept of a “Sabbath” anymore. It’s just another day to do something you didn’t have time for during the “work week”,
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I only found out about periods because one day some girls saw a discarded pad in the girl’s restroom at my elementary school. We had one girl who had failed maybe two grades so I think it was from her. We, the younger girls, had whisperings about what it was, and I think someone said to ask your mom about it. I do not think my mother would have told me until we later had the segregated girls private teaching on the subject at school and she was forced into it.
I think things of a private nature are so used in advertising on television (I personally hate all those ads for those men’s products and personal products for women) that children are much more aware of those topics which they should be free from awareness of at their ages. We are in a time of secular celebration of things in the sexual arena. For those not guided by Christian beliefs regarding modesty, then I have an understanding of the situation. In a sense it is making a deal out of the difference between being a boy and a girl. This discussion has even made me wonder if those guys who are trans and become “women” ever experience having a period. Logically I think not. Real women have periods! God made that difference. I guess that could be a positive spin on such a celebration in this mixed up world we are passing through.
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To date, transgender procedures do not include uterine transplants into those who were born male. So menstruation is not possible for those who identify as transwomen. That fact has triggered the more extreme elements within transgenderism to call for a reclassification of those born with female organs to something like ‘people with a vagina’. It is that kind of reclassification which has kindled the backlash of feminists against the transgender movement, in protest that biological women are being erased.
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All this talk about “transgender ism” would be funny if it weren’t so serious.
Lots of people messing up their lives because they think they are smarter than God.
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I regard the real threat to human dignity as not lying in the loss of privacy, but in the corrupt cultural habit of turning essential bodily functions into subjects of mockery. It was Ham’s laughter at Noah’s nakedness that was cursed. As a nurse, I see the most intimate details of my clients, but I never treat it as humourous and making such jokes in the healthcare field is regarded as a form of sexual harrassment. Paul warned against filthiness and foolish jesting. I was recently in the care of total strangers for a problem related to my female organs and I had to rust them to maintain my dignity as I was unconscious. It would be no bad thing for the culture to acquire a sense of responsibility towards maintaining the dignity of other humans in their essential body functions.
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Chas, there is nothing new under the sun. It is clear from the law of Moses that the widespread cultural practice of making eunuchs was not acceptable to God, as eunuchs were forbidden to enter the congregation. Yet, God still redeemed individual eunuchs and made them into clean vessels for his use.
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Roscuro, I agree with your 1:20 regarding maintaining the dignity of other humans in their bodily functions. But age and maturity need to be considerations when we speak of acquiring that sense of responsibility.
Women in the military, women receiving medical care, those topics have come up in this conversation. These are women who are serving with and/or are receiving care from other adults.
But it’s not the same scenario as the question of whether it’s appropriate for a 10- or 11-year-old boy to be made aware of a specific neighbor girl’s menstruation. Can he not be taught to treat females with dignity and respect without being told about the neighbor girl’s period at this stage of his life? Is telling Boy that Gabby has her period the only way, or the best way, for him to learn compassion for females?
My biggest concern with Boy is that he’s already in the position of sometimes “having to be the adult” because of his dad’s mental condition. Does Boy really need the added burden of having to know how challenging it can be for girls when they have their periods, when he’s not mature enough to have a relationship with a girl that could lead to marriage very soon?
I may be overstepping my bounds in this conversation, and certainly don’t know Boy or Gabby like Kizzie and Nightingale do, but from my viewpoint, limited as it may be, it seems to me that Boy has received more information than is necessary.
The questions of who, when, why should be considered: who needs to know about the girl’s period; when should they know; why should they know (at all, or at this time rather than some other time)?
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6, I really do not want to comment on the specifics of Boy and his family and friend, because I do not know the full facts of the case and we only know the family through Kizzie, and Kizzie isn’t the decision maker regarding Boy’s learning. But as regards when people should start assuming responsibility for caring for the dignity of others, it should start in childhood. Second was seven when Youngest was born, and one day Second astonished my mother by changing Youngest’s diaper while my mother was busy elsewhere. Elder siblings may frequently be engaged in the care of younger siblings – Tiny, for example, when being babysat by my parents often helps my mother out with Sixth’s diaper changes by getting the wipes and a fresh diaper, as my mother’s mobility is limited – and so from the beginning need to be taught respect for the dignity of their infant sibling(s). Of all the awful material put out by ATI, one of the worst I remember was a newsletter which was talking about an adolescent boy, whose family was part of the program, who was discovered to have abused his younger siblings. ATI’s foolish curative measures included having the offender write what he thought were the root causes of this crime, which they then published in their newsletter. The young sociopath blamed his crime on his younger sisters childish behaviour, saying they were not always modest when they played. The young pervert’s sick claims were repeated as if they were a valid concern, instead of parents being told to ensure that their children had respect and love for each other. Parents need to teach their children to care for the dignity of their siblings, because a child who mocks or abuses a sibling will not scruple to mock and abuse anyone else.
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Wow! ATI was really corrupt on that. Very sad for all involved. As one who lived in a neighborhood where a young boy sociopath lived who abused girls in the neighborhood, I shudder to think how the publicity that ATI put forth would have affected the victims and their families. My mother caught the boy in process and stopped it, but my friend on the street did not have a situation in which anyone stopped him. The boy’s family ended up moving.
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Janice, ATI also taught that sexual abuse only damaged the body which was, according to their nearly Gnostic teaching, the “least important” part of one’s being. Basically, their material on abuse said cheer up, it could have been worse, so don’t let it get you down. It really wasn’t surprising when multiple young women came forward to say Gothard had groomed and touched them inappropriately, as the material put out by his organization had already sheltered abusers from consequences.
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Roscuro, 3:02, thanks for your reply. I’m in full agreement that training to treat others with dignity should begin in childhood. My older kids helped with diapering and other aspects of care with their younger siblings, like you mention with your nieces and nephews. My precocious 5-year-old piano student is apparently quite a help, as well, with her 3-year-old sister and 1-year-old brother.
The question that’s also in my mind besides the who/when/why consideration I mentioned at 2:01 is “how much.” IOW, how much should we reveal about bodily processes to children at any given age?
There is, of course, no clear-cut answer. It’s going to vary, depending on multiple factors, of which we may or may not be aware. I think these kinds of discussions are important to have, though, even without our being able to give one definitive answer. There’s no one-size-fits-all anything about this.
I do hope that Kizzie doesn’t feel targeted by me as I comment on this topic that came up in her family. I apologize if I’ve come across as judgmental.
Regarding ATI: I am so thankful I never grew up with that or even heard about it once I started homeschooling. No homeschoolers in my area ever mentioned that organization, so I don’t think there was much ATI business around here. Vision Forum (Doug Philipps) and No Greater Joy (Michael and Debi Pearl) there was plenty of mention, philosophies not without problems, but not ATI. The blame-the-victim mentality apparent with some of these organizations — the splicing and dicing of abuse recipients’ lives to come up with a way to “show” they brought the abuse on themselves — is, in a word, disgusting.
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A summation in response to one of our Q&A SS questions today spoke to our ability to sin or not to sin, a topic we were on a day or so ago.
He referred to who is the “Four-fold state of man”:
1/ Able to not sin (before the fall of man)
2/ Unable to not sin (post-fall)
3/ Able to sin or not sin (but we do sin) (after being reborn)
4/ Not able to sin (in heaven an in our glorified state where our only desires will be for righteousness)
Question
What is the Fourfold State of Man?
Answer
Augustine (Correction and Grace XXXIII) wrote: The four states of man in relation to sin enumerated by Augustine of Hippo: (a) able to sin, able not to sin (posse peccare, posse non peccare); (b) not able not to sin (non posse non peccare); (c) able not to sin (posse non peccare); and (d) unable to sin (non posse peccare). The first state corresponds to the state of man in innocency, before the Fall; the second the state of the natural man after the Fall; the third the state of the regenerate man; and the fourth the glorified man. This is summarized in the table below:
Pre-Fall Man Post-Fall Man Reborn Man Glorified Man
able to sin able to sin able to sin able to not sin
able to not sin unable to not sin able to not sin unable to sin
++++++++++++++++++++++
Free will means we will freely do what we *want* to do.
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On a lighter note, speaking of my 5-year-old student with the big vocabulary, last Monday she came to her lesson and announced how warm it had been on Easter Sunday. She exclaimed, “The temperature got up to 77 degrees Fahrenheit!!”
I had never heard a 5-year-old use the term Fahrenheit before. 🙂
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That pretty well sums it up.
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6, both Vision Forum and No Greater Joy had connections to ATI. The Russian orphans the Pearls mentioned in their material as having for several months each year came through ATI’s Training Center in Moscow, and one of ATI’s newsletters featured an article written by the Pearls. For a time in our teens/early 20s we got the Pearls publication and thought well of them – until I realized Michael Pearl preached some troubling doctrines.
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So does Free Will mean to be able to commit the unpardonable sin?
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Morning Dj and all of you. I am watching a fog bank move across the valley. Monday morning here and I need to get ready for a class of 18 third graders.
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I bet that five year old just couldn’t wait to use that word with you, Six. Fun.
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We have The Master’s Golf Tournament on and the beauty of that course is really something. I am enjoying the green and beauty of the flowers.
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Kathaleena, 5:02, I imagine so, too. 🙂
I mentioned I have a new 5-year-old student starting tomorrow. That will make three 5-year-olds on Mondays. Except for the 3-year-old on Fridays, those kids are the youngest.
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Good morning, Jo. At 5:00 pm here, I’m going to watch a live presentation from a piano teacher/blogger who is in Melbourne. He approaches piano lessons from a creative standpoint — not so much a traditional pedagogy. I have been listening to some podcasts on his website and they have really helped me change some things about my teaching approach.
It was especially a great help in changing the format of the lessons I teach to my high school boy I mentioned a few weeks ago.
I love thinking outside the box with methodology, and I’m hoping this webinar starting soon will be helpful, as well. (And I really believe it will be!) 🙂
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Hello 100!
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what number is this?
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Roscuro at 4:30 — ack! I think I had heard that before, about the ATI/NGJ Russian boys connection, but forgot.
I unsubscribed from the NGJ newsletter, too, quite a number of years ago now, due to doctrinal issues.
Janice, at 4:33, I’m quite sure others would be able to explain it better than I, but if by the unpardonable sin you mean blaspheming the Holy Spirit, I think it’s a comfort to remember that, though we all have free will, blaspheming the Holy Spirit is a very deliberate, conscious choice. One doesn’t accidentally blaspheme the Spirit, or commit that sin unawares.
Anyone else want to add their thoughts to my humble attempts to answer this question? It’s a good question, Janice.
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Just gonna jump in here and say that Gabby was delighted with her gifts. She is a bold, extroverted girl. She may have been a bit embarrassed initially when the moms made a big deal about it, but she seemed fine about it later.
But as Roscuro noted, I am not the decision maker on what Boy learns.
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All I have to say on that subject is…..
LALALALALALALALA!!!!!!!!
I can’t hear you with my fingers in my ears……..
The less I know, the better. I will go as far as picking up supplies at the store for it if you are very specific about what product. Other than that, it’s a need to know thing, and I don’t need to know anything about it. 🙂
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Met the young gentleman caller for my daughter this afternoon. He’s nice, well mannered, (got my daughter’s door and stuff, yes, I noticed) a believer, of course. Seems pretty smart, works to pay for school, polite. I took it easy on him, the questioning will get more serious when/if they do. But they both seem quite smitten, or twitterpated by one another if you prefer. 🙂 I managed to not make gagging sounds too.
I’ve grown. 🙂
It was a nice visit.
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The cardinal is a handsome young man who has taken up residence in the large bush he’s in. He’s out calling to the ladies first thing in the morning, and again at dusk. No takers yet, but he keeps singing. He’s gorgeous, and I have more shots too. 🙂
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Glad to hear it went well, AJ. Good job on doing the role you have been assigned for this season.
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Glad you kept down those gagging sounds, AJ. He would have had second thoughts of any long term connection with the family.
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In-person church has also seen the return in my life of Sunday afternoon naps. This one today lasted 90 minutes, I was out cold.
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I didn’t really learn about what goes on during a period until I got married and started living with a woman. And I am glad of it…
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“But then as Kim said, can you even find a slip any more?”
My wife tried, even on JC Penney, couldn’t find one. No more slips.
Women only wear dresses to be sexy, like Jessica Rabbit.
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7:27 haha
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Are slips considered ‘vintage’ now? I have one I could sell on Ebay for $1,000.
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Bob B. @ 7:27 Me too.
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Bob B. It wasn’t until years later that I learned that this was the reason Elvera changed our wedding date by a week.
It was scheduled originally to occur immediately after my graduation from Carolina.
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The (live) piano teaching webinar froze up frequently, so I missed a lot during the connection interruptions. I will watch the recording when it is emailed.
The host was funny when he engaged in a little self-deprecating humor at the beginning. The opening visual of the webinar, entitled “After the method book: How to teach intermediate students with direction and confidence,” showed him sitting on a chair to the right of a student who was seated on the piano bench. The speech bubble above the host’s/teacher’s head said something like, “He’s done with method books! Oh, no, what now? Let’s see. I think I’ll try………………….”
The speech bubble above the pleasantly smiling student read, “This guy doesn’t know what he’s doing.” LOL! 😀
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Back to the usual tomorrow — homeschool and piano lessons. Might catch up with you all next weekend, or perhaps another time.
Take care.
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It’s still possible to buy slips on amazon, at least full slips. I didn’t check for half slips, since I consider full slips more feminine and less likely to fall down. (Ever have the elastic “give” on a half slip in public?) Anyone looking for such items, if you see “bamboo” ones advertised, know that the resulting fabric is very silky and luscious.
I suspect slips aren’t as common partly because dresses went “out” for a while, and also because a lot of dresses now come with their own linings.
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I haven’t actually tried to buy a slip in, well, ages it seems like. I used to wear a lot of skirts for work but have moved to mostly pants. But I do remember having a hard time finding a slip the last time I had to buy one, was somewhat surprised when I was actually looking in a department store and they seemed non-existent.
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Heating up some chicken soup for dinner.
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I think I have some bamboo sheets that are super soft – and just bought some bamboo socks.
That new mattress can’t come soon enough.
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We had bamboo diapers.
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I have bamboo cooking utensils.
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HA!! I bought bamboo underwear! Hoping no one reads this! 🙂 It is soft but for this damp place with no dryer it can take days to dry after washing. How is that for some humor???
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Ha! Jo, that is amusing. Do you have a hairdryer you could use for drying them?
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I woke up early and decided I could just stay up so made myself some Rooibos tea. It is one I can drink on an empty stomach.
I may need to go shopping online to find some bamboo unmentionables which were once known as step-ins. Bamboo step-ins!😀
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I found my Bible verse to memorize for this week in my Bible study guide, 2 Corinthians 3:18 and looked at several versions trying to pick the best wording for memory work. I found the best in the MEV (Modern English Version):
“But we all, seeing the glory of the Lord with unveiled faces, as in a mirror, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory by the Spirit of the Lord.”
The study guide uses the NLT version,
“So all of us who have had that veil removed can see and reflect the glory of the Lord. And the Lord—who is the Spirit—makes us more and more like him as we are changed into his glorious image.”
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This is ” 128.
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Our internet has been on and off. Nice to have unlimited internet until it goes down.
Morning Chas.
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I can’t get this song out of my head:
“I can’t feel at home
in this world, anymore”
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