I see on the TV that Trump has agreed to a peaceful transfer of the office.
That should not be an issue.
In America, one side wins, the others lose.
Life goes on.
To make an issue of this is bad news for America.
Even if the loser “agrees” to lose.
The fact that it went this far is bad news.
Once again I’m forced to not print my response to this piece of trash.
Matt Schlapp: "I understand there's a 16-year-old young woman who was shot. Now maybe she was doing terrible things and deserved to be shot … we're the party that talks about law and order and respecting cops." pic.twitter.com/UxMY8WUeDM
So tell me you piece of trash, what made her deserve to be shot and killed?
Reports are coming in that she wasn't 16-years-old. Even if she wasn't, (1) police are not executioners and (2) Matt Schlapp thought a 16-year-old could deserve to be shot by police
“Republican and Conservative Leaders Condemn Capitol Hill Violence
Contrast with leftist justification for Antifa/BLM violence all summer.”
“One thing that stands out at this early stage about the violence on Capitol Hill is that the right—from Republican Congressmen to prominent media personalities—is calling with one voice for the violence to stop.
The contrast between the right’s immediate calls for an end to the violence and the months-long Democrat, media, and leftist sugar-coating (remember the antifa “summer of love”?), down-playing (mostly peaceful arson), and refusing to condemn antifa and BLM violence as it swept the nation’s cities in 2020 is stark.”
President Trump issues a strong request that the violence stop. He reminds the rioters, if they turn out to be Trump supporters, that “WE are the Party of Law & Order.””
I see on TV that four people are now dead.
For what did they give their lives?
How does their death change anything?
I see, also on TV that Trump is calling for an orderly transfer of power.
QOD What other way do we transfer power?
I was on your side Don. But it’s over. Nothing else you can do.
Move on ’till next time. That’s the way it works.
VP Mike Pence: “Today was a dark day in the history of the United States Capitol, but thanks to the swift efforts of U.S. Capitol Police, federal, state and local law enforcement, the violence was quelled.” pic.twitter.com/aV1VdlR9Le
“Trump supporters say that Antifa members disguised as one of them infiltrated the protesters who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.
A retired military officer told The Washington Times that the firm XRVision used its software to do facial recognition of protesters and matched two Philadelphia Antifa members to two men inside the Senate.
The source provided the photo match to The Times.
One has a tattoo that indicates he is a Stalinist sympathizer. Many Antifa members promote anarchy through violence and want the end of America in favor of a Stalinist-state. “No more USA at all” is a protest chant.
XRVision also has identified another man who, while not known to have Antifa links, is someone who shows up at climate and Black Lives Matter protests in the West.”
“I hate federal commissions, but Americans need one to look into the 2020 election
To restore faith, we must review how mail voting worked, analyze problems like uncounted votes, and conclusively prove or disprove fraud allegations.”
“I hate federal commissions. I have always hated federal commissions. Federal commissions are Washington’s way of managing scandals. They work like placebos for political fevers, convincing voters that answers and change are on the way. That is why it is so difficult for me to utter these words: We need a federal election commission. Not the one proposed by some Senate Republicans. And not like past placebo commissions. An honest-to-God, no-holds-barred federal commission to look into the 2020 presidential election.
With the challenge to the certification of election votes, some Republican members of Congress are calling to delay the proceedings for 10 days and impanel a commission to “audit” the results. There is precedent for such a commission. Just not good precedent. Indeed, citing the Electoral Commission of 1877 as a model of good constitutional process is like citing the Titanic as a model of good maritime navigation. The commission was an utter disaster.”
——-
“That is not what we need. There are three reasons why the need for a real commission is needed:
►First, and most important, this was an unprecedented election in the reliance of mail-in voting and the use of new voting systems and procedures. We need to review how that worked down to the smallest precincts and hamlets.
►Second, possibly tens of millions of voters believe that this election was rigged and stolen. I am not one of them. However, the integrity of our elections depends on the faith of the electorate.
Roughly 40% of that electorate have lingering doubts about whether their votes actually matter. Most of the cases challenging the election were not decided on the merits. Indeed, it seems they haven’t even been allowed for discovery. Instead, they were largely dismissed on jurisdictional or standing groups or under the “laches” doctrine that they were brought too late. Those allegations need to be conclusively proven or disproven in the interests of the country.
►Third, there were problems. There was not proof of systemic fraud or irregularities, but there were problems of uncounted votes, loss of key custodial information and key differences in the rules governing voting and tabulations.
We have spent billions to achieve greater security and reliability after prior election controversies. Indeed, we had a prior election commission that failed to achieve those fundamental goals.”
“But before I get into that, I must draw some lines in the sand:
—Put your hands on a Law Enforcement Officer without just cause; You go to jail.
—Put your hands on another human being or threaten to do so without just cause; You go to jail.
—Damage public or private property; You go to jail.
—You illegally break into and/or trespass into a prohibited area or private property; You go to jail.
—You unlawfully impede the lawful business of government; Depending on circumstances, You go to jail.
All of those actions were committed by a very few persons present at the Capitol Building. Although more footage may come out, the only real crimes I saw evidence of, were some shoving back and forth between Capitol Police and folks attempting to breach security barriers (which they eventually did). I also saw some folks breaking some windows and entering in through them along with some other folks who managed to break into the Senate Chamber.
I do not support any of the above. Let me be clear. The folks who committed crimes today, should be arrested, tried and dealt with as a Judge and Jury determine. Having said that, let me tell you what most of the imagery showed today.
Except as noted above, almost all the imagery was of a peaceful, joyful protest. Whether walking on the street or gathered on the Capitol steps, people were waving flags and as far as I could see, nobody was throwing punches. Nobody was throwing bricks or Molotov cocktails. In fact, one video clip I found very interesting, was one group of protestors who managed to gain entry to the Capitol Building, was walking/strolling through Statuary Hall…and they were all staying inside the velvet guide ropes running down the center!! Nobody toppled any statues over or anything like that. Surely not some “maddened mob” as the media kept hyping all afternoon long.
Here are some things that bother me. First of all, the media. The way they were hyping this, you would think there was an all out assault by heavily armed rioters, hell bent on killing everyone inside the building. The media kept using the words, “shots fired,” implying that the “mob” had shot somebody, maybe even a policeman. Turns out, it was a Capitol policeman who shot an unarmed female protestor. Unknown at the time of this writing, if this was a “righteous shoot.”
Another thing that starched my shorts, was not only the effeminate media prissies like FOX News’ Chris Wallace, but also some supposedly on our team, like Minority leader Kevin McCarthy, were quick to badmouth the entire protest as a “mob” and an assault on the Constitution. This continued all afternoon as the press corralled every Republican they could find to badmouth peaceful protestors and pressure President Trump to tell them to go home.
Here is my question for every American (remember my opening statements); What did you think would happen?!
What did you think would happen when you impeached, under false pretenses, a President who was the choice of close to half of America?
What did you think would happen when you spent each and every day denigrating 73 million Trump supporters, calling them “bitter clingers,” “deplorables,” who live in “flyover country,” who go to work, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone?
What did you think would happen when you stole an election, right out in broad daylight…with the help of folks who are supposed to be on our side…I’m talking about the Georgia Secretary of State here. Then did it again two days ago, with the help of the very same SECSTATE.
What did you think would happen when the Supreme Court of these United States refused to hear us on a case in which they have primary jurisdiction?
What did you think would happen when 74 million Americans watched the folks supposedly on their own team, tell them to roll over and suck it up?
Going forward…Knowing that 74 million Republican, Independent, along with a few million Democrat voters did NOT vote for stacking the Supreme Court, the admission of Puerto Rico & DC as states, the “Green New Deal,” massive wealth redistribution, gun confiscation or national lockdowns or mask mandates…What do you think will happen when a totally leftist controlled government tries to ram those policies down our collective throats?”
Since the media finally found a “mob” it doesn’t like, let’s compare and contrast.
Here’s a reminder…..
Reminder that our nation's capital looked like this at the beginning of the summer and most Democrats/media shrugged it off as mostly peaceful https://t.co/1zvsLVRuQc
It is unsettling and the silence on certain aspects of what happened is disturbing.
A friend was in attendance in DC yesterday. She, her husband and 16yr old son were on the lawn when police began removing the barriers. She asked why they were being removed…”we were ordered to remove them” was the response. Minutes later tear gas was thrown 5 ft from her…no disturbance was around her at the time…everything was peaceful. This is first hand accounting from friend…..she is appalled at what is being lied about by MSM… 😢
I am sorry about that woman being shot and the others injured. I, however, cannot condemn those guarding the Capitol, thus the people within the Capitol. I know someone in law enforcement who had to shoot at one point and she still lives with the horror and sadness of it.
The whole thing is very strange, however. Especially when you hear things like the above from those there.
It is my understanding that the SCOTUS never actually looked at the evidence of fraud. I’m fine with the Capitol buildings being in disarray and congress being unable to meet until there is a full, complete, and very public, televised hearing on the evidence. This will not be swept under the rug. Legitimacy requires it, and until it happens, there will be no new legitimate president. Just my opinion, of course.
I am sad for those who found themselves in harms way. I am thankful for the police trying to bring order to chaos. I am dumbfounded when I see photos of “protestors” sitting in the seat of the Speaker of the House while others are taking “selfies” in that room!!….and sitting in Pelosi’s office chair, vandalizing her office?! Why were they not arrested post haste?!! How in the world could they occupy that room let alone gain access….something doesn’t add up….
I notice that mail in ballots are present in every issue.
We need to get away from mail-in.
If you want to vote, show up at the polling place.
It always worked in the past.
Mail in will never work. Too much opportunity for scam.
Chas, as far as I know, there has always been provision for people who can’t physically go to the polls. Military stationed overseas or people who are housebound shouldn’t be kept from voting. Have rules about absentee voting, and follow the rules, but you just can’t refuse to allow people to vote because they can’t get to the polls on election day.
In a pandemic year, there had to be ways to allow isolating people to vote. My husband and I voted by mail this year, first time I’ve ever done so (I don’t know if he has before). It was either that or not vote at all. I wasn’t going to risk his life just to vote. Surely it is possible to have a fair election and still allow people to vote.
The woman fatally shot inside the U.S. Capitol Wednesday has been identified as Ashli Babbitt, a friend confirms to Fox News. Babbitt was a 14-year veteran who served four tours with the Air Force and resided in San Diego, according to media reports.
Tychicus, I do know your screen name is from Scripture, and sorry I’d misspelled it. I thought there was a second h in there. Are you hoping for civil war, or for a peaceful transfer or power?
I forget where you live. Are you in a big city, a red state or blue state? What’s your day job, or are you retired? I’m not trying to be nosy, and not asking for details, but just wondering how all this affects you that you are so “invested” in it.
Re the squabble over the “outside agitators” — both sides have plenty of bad actors in their own right, that shouldn’t be hard to admit. Gather a riled-up mob together and they will, predictably, appear, and mayhem will ensue. Few things are politically more predictable than that.
How a good number of folks in this crowd were able to get close enough to scale the walls and occupy the Senate chambers and lawmakers’ offices needs to be seriously looked into, as does the shooting (as it will be) and any number of other things that occurred.
Just saying we need to make sure we’re applying the same standard in our own views of what happened. It requires a certain ability to “step aside” from our own preconceived notions and biases, never easy for any of us due to human nature, I realize.
“A retired military officer told The Washington Times that the firm XRVision used its software to do facial recognition of protesters and matched two Philadelphia Antifa members to two men inside the Senate.
The source provided the photo match to The Times.
One has a tattoo that indicates he is a Stalinist sympathizer. Many Antifa members promote anarchy through violence and want the end of America in favor of a Stalinist-state. “No more USA at all” is a protest chant.
XRVision also has identified another man who, while not known to have Antifa links, is someone who shows up at climate and Black Lives Matter protests in the West.””
Now that’s not to say there weren’t right wingers acting stupid too, there clearly were some. But that’s not all it was, despite what someone posted on Facebook.
There are also anarchists, right and left, who have all kinds of grievances and thrive on these kinds of huge gatherings (which is why I learned long ago that they’re almost always bad news at the outset — and situations that Christians, in particular, need to stay clear of for obvious reasons).
What happened yesterday was shocking in a unique way. Looking afterward at all the video footage and photos from inside the Capitol itself was alarming for all Americans, no other way to characterize that.
If people had instead breached the White House and were inside “the People’s House,” would those presenting this as a good thing be saying the same thing? BTW, I don’t know the circumstances of that young woman being shot, but “murder” isn’t the right word for someone being killed by the police while engaged in unlawful activity. Someone who claimed to have been right beside her said she was trying to climb through a window, was told to stop, and didn’t stop. I don’t know if that is true, but “murder” is the wrong word in this situation.
Cheryl: I mentioned to you not long ago that I live in Central Europe – the Czech Republic, to be precise. My wife and I have served here in missions for the past 30 years, and before that we were involved in smuggling Bibles and other Christian literature into the countries of Communist Eastern Europe. During those two years as singles on our team, we joined a smaller department of that team that organized more open summer evangelistic campaigns in the campsites of Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. During the year, we would travel to those countries in order to follow up with contacts made during those summers.
Why I am I so invested? Mainly b/c I have lived among and rubbed shoulders with people who once lived under the oppression of socialism and communism, and so when I see my home country headed in that same direction, it is very concerning and disturbing. It’s quite striking to read the comments of immigrants to the USA from Central and Eastern Europe who insist, “Please don’t allow socialism/communism to gain a foothold in the US – we have suffered under that authoritarianism, and you don’t want to have to experience it.” I also know that the US has been the greatest beacon of freedom and liberty around the world, and if it falls, it certainly doesn’t bode well for the rest of the world. We’re closer than ever to Christ’s return, but I’m hoping that the USA can still be that beacon and a restraint against evil for at least another season.
I guess posting here also allows me to ‘vent’ somewhat, and simply be in touch somewhat with my home culture. The bigger question concerning the election issue is: Shouldn’t we all be invested?
Am I hoping for civil war? Of course not. I think we should all desire the peaceful transfer of power. Having said that, there can very well come a time in a nation’s history when, as Jefferson said, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.” We may be getting very close to that point. Or we could come to the point of a peaceful secession. Given those two choices, I would prefer the latter. How about you?
AJ, I don’t really understand the “unarmed citizens” part of that. Police can only shoot people if they can shoot back, not in any other circumstance? Indeed, if you tell someone to stop doing whatever they are doing and to put their arms above their head, and they comply, then the person should not be shot. But what if the person doesn’t stop? Do you assume such a person is unarmed and let him do whatever he is doing as long as he doesn’t draw a gun? I’m not defending a specific shooting; I know almost nothing about the circumstances. But “shooting an unarmed citizen” has long been a harsh accusation against the police that ignores nuance.
The person pointing a gun at you is a more immediate threat, and is the person we think of in terms of someone being shot by police. But we’ve had lots of riots in this country this summer over “unarmed” citizens being shot by the police, and as it turns out, in nearly every case the person was still a danger to police and was disobeying police orders. In one case in Chicago years ago, a police officer was blasted in the media for shooting an unarmed citizen. Well, if the story the police told was accurate, the citizen had hold of an officer’s gun and was wrestling him for it when shot by another officer. His being “unarmed” was a smokescreen–he was trying to arm himself and could well have been successful! A person high on PCPs might likewise be “unarmed” but very dangerous.
My question about the White House wasn’t a specific connection to the shooting, BTW. One or more people indicated on here yesterday that it was OK for people to be insider Senators’ offices because they aren’t “really” their offices at all, but ours. I was asking if it would work that way if people made their way into the living quarters of the White House, if you’d shrug it off as “Hey, it’s the People’s House and not President Trump’s, so it’s OK.”
We probably all have our views on how the party imploded, various autopsies will go around.
But I actually think this could be a good “break” in the current dismal GOP era for conservatives to reorganize with some new faces. The parties (or their constituencies) do survive these implosions, there’s nothing new under the sun. The nation remains pretty much evenly divided and while the Democrats have taken all three governing bodies in DC, the margins were and are narrow. What they need to be careful of is overreach, but I expect they won’t be careful. Then you’ll have the pushback and in 2 years there will be a new political game underway.
Thanks, Tychicus. I knew that at one point you’d been a missionary, but didn’t know if you still were.
We have enough connections with China and other lands to understand that Communism is really bad. I have stated on here that I think Biden is mostly a helpless puppet now, but that Harris is both wicked and dangerous. I don’t think the results of this election were good at all.
I also think that legal means to contest the election results were tried, and they failed, and it is time to accept the results of the election, and that refusal to accept the results is every bit as dangerous. (If the Republican party is dead, it is because people have linked it to Donald Trump, who has made himself odious to the nation.)
The USA never was that beacon and restraint against evil, except in a very limited way as God allowed. This is actually part of the reason I wondered about your day job, and why I asked: If you are in the ministry of preaching Christ and Him crucified, and preaching from Scripture, then you affirm that God is sovereign over history, that He raises up leaders and lets them fall, and that human government is far more limited than its rulers believe. The real “power” is the power not to coerce but to change human hearts. The real power is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In a nation where people largely accept Christian principles, even unbelievers are going to largely live by culturally accepted mores. A land where people believe in working for their bread, where people marry before they have sex and bear children, where people obey the law, etc. is going to be an easier place to govern. But those are secondary principles. An immoral people is an ungovernable people, and we are becoming that. An ungovernable people is going to be ruled by tyranny, or will descend to anarchy.
What we see is not ultimately a political problem at all, but a spiritual one.
For us Christians, politics is a secondary issue, or a tertiary issue. If you asked the Christians in China whether they would rather have religious freedom or biblically orthodox preaching, they would choose the latter. Yes, we hope and pray for continuing freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and so forth. But for ministers of the Gospel, politics is a distraction. You have a more important calling. The power to change lives and hearts is in the Word of God, not in political power.
As I was driving home from town just now a news report stated the unarmed woman shot to death was trying to enter the room where our leaders were. The reporter said “he had no choice”…she was coming towards the doors and he told her to stop…I assume she wasn’t stopping? Sad all the way around….
And that video proves out what my friend experienced….they took the barriers away. Some believe it was all a set up…to slime the President and take the focus off of the corruption of the election… 😢
Nancyjill, the other view could also say it was intentionally orchestrated by the president following the rally to allow a show of popular force (not that he intended it to go as far as it did?).
As I said, a whole lot of noise (and again no shortage of theories and speculation bouncing around on both “sides”) right now.
AJ – The Washington Times has retracted that article because it was false. The guy with the facepaint and horns is known as the QAnon Shaman. Not sure if the other guy is the same one I read about, but the tattoo of the bearded guy is from a video game.
Cheryl: I was somewhat hesitant to share what I shared with you, b/c I was afraid you might respond as you responded. Of course I have an important calling, and I live it out here. Of course the power to change lives and hearts is the Word of God, not political power. And politics is a tertiary issue, but it is important – especially when a nation is at a crossroads of choosing between the way of freedom or the way of repression. (I don’t even usually post here very often, though I have done so more recently during this Covid time when we are more home bound, and for the reasons that I touched on above.) You don’t know me or my environment, you only ‘see’ me here, which is, after all, dedicated to News and Politics.
God has used the USA as a restraint against Nazism and Communism, against tyrants and terrorists. It’s been a beacon of freedom for individuals who have fled tyranny for centuries, and where they could then live under the concept of E Pluribus Unum – an experiment focusing not on tribalism like so much of the rest of the world, but rather on our similarities. Perhaps you haven’t lived abroad anywhere for any length of time where people are much more restricted, but I have been around many who truly view the USA as a beacon of freedom and democracy, a “city on a hill” that inspires them and is attractive for them. (If the Biden admin truly takes over, then the USA certainly won’t be all that, and we will rapidly decline.)
However, it was also a recognition that what unites us and not what divides us is what keeps us together, but that doesn’t appear to be sustainable anymore.
I believe that the Trump administration (despite DT’s personal flaws) has been a great force for good not only for our country, but for the whole world (and actually more so than any previous administration). Problems in the Republican party are much more b/c of RiNOs, not Trump. About 80,000,000 voters would disagree with your notion that he is odious to the nation.
Legal means to contest the election results have been tried and failed? What court or legal body has actually examined the overwhelming evidence, including well over 1,000 sworn affidavits? Who is actually supporting “We the People” in this effort? When people are being disenfranchised b/c of a rigged election, how is it a government “for the people”? How can you (we) be willing to accept such massive fraud? Are we a Republic, or aren’t we?
Interesting clip of Charles Krauthammer in 2017 (I miss his voice) who noted how both parties had begun speaking in “apocalyptic” language — if he other side wins, the nation will collapse, etc. That’s true in spades now.
Hoping some of this can be toned down a bit on both sides now, but I won’t hold my breath.
We have known people through Art’s work who came here to escape oppressive communism and socialism and from their stories I know that Tychicus is speaking truth.
Oh I miss his voice too Dj…
I just find it interesting how the MSM now lobs charges against the “other side” for what they have been condoning for months…all because when it was happening on “their side” it fit the narrative. Waters calling for violence against Republicans/Trump supporters. Harris being quoted saying “protestors should not let up”, Pressley stating “there needs to be unrest in the streets”….So now these same women want to impose the 25th amendment to remove Trump for inciting what happened yesterday…their duplicity is off the charts!
Cheryl, I am part of this nation and I do not consider President Trump to be odious, but rather, the best President we have had in ages.
A bunch of people gathered for a rally, some of them marched to the Capitol. Some of them entered and some of them caused damage. Several have been identified as agitators from other events.
nancyjill, I agree (7 p.m.). Unfortunately, the media (generally speaking) is what it is right now, I get the frustration, but …. the only way that changes is from within. I believe that will happen, but perhaps not for some time. But remember, some of the alternative media isn’t much better, sadly, and some of it’s much worse, just on the other end of the spectrum.
Not all mainstream media is slanted, and not everything in an outlet that is considered “liberal” or slanted is wrong (there are still good reporters and good editors out there at every publication). But it makes for a lot of work and discernment by news consumers.
Agenda-driven media on both the right and left need to be read with a grain of salt and keeping those stated agendas in mind. Throw a grain of salt in for regular media, too.
Just to turn it around a bit, however, it’s interesting that many on the left argued also that most of the protestors during the summer were peaceful and the gatherings then were disrupted by a relative few.
Another cautionary tale about any mass gatherings ramped up by emotion. They go sideways all too easily. On both sides.
A reliable trustworthy media is needed now more than ever, perhaps — but it is a private industry, it’s not a monolith but is a competitive private business consisting of many disparate parts.
OPINION
Donald Trump’s Final Days
The best outcome would be for him to resign to spare the U.S. another impeachment fight.
___________________________
The lodestar of these columns is the U.S. Constitution. The document is the durable foundation protecting liberty, and this week it showed its virtue again. Despite being displaced for a time by a mob, Congress returned the same day to ratify the Electoral College vote and Joe Biden’s election. Congratulations to the President-elect, who will be inaugurated as the Constitution stipulates at noon on Jan. 20.
***
That still leaves Wednesday’s disgrace and what to do about the 13 days left in Donald Trump’s presidential term. Democratic leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are demanding that Mr. Trump be removed from office immediately—either by the Cabinet under the 25th Amendment or new articles of impeachment. There’s partisan animus at work here, but Mr. Trump’s actions on Wednesday do raise constitutional questions that aren’t casually dismissed.
In concise summary, on Wednesday the leader of the executive branch incited a crowd to march on the legislative branch. The express goal was to demand that Congress and Vice President Mike Pence reject electors from enough states to deny Mr. Biden an Electoral College victory. When some in the crowd turned violent and occupied the Capitol, the President caviled and declined for far too long to call them off. When he did speak, he hedged his plea with election complaint. …
… Mr. Trump’s many opponents are crowing in satisfaction that their predictions have been proven right, that he was never fit to be President and should have been impeached long ago. But Mr. Trump’s character flaws were apparent for all to see when he ran for President.
Sixty-three million Americans voted to elect Mr. Trump in 2016, and that constitutional process shouldn’t be easily overruled as Democrats and the press have demanded from nearly his first day in office. …
… If Mr. Trump wants to avoid a second impeachment, his best path would be to take personal responsibility and resign. This would be the cleanest solution since it would immediately turn presidential duties over to Mr. Pence. And it would give Mr. Trump agency, a la Richard Nixon, over his own fate.
This might also stem the flood of White House and Cabinet resignations that are understandable as acts of conscience but could leave the government dangerously unmanned. Robert O’Brien, the national security adviser, in particular should stay at his post.
We know an act of grace by Mr. Trump isn’t likely. In any case this week has probably finished him as a serious political figure. He has cost Republicans the House, the White House, and now the Senate. Worse, he has betrayed his loyal supporters by lying to them about the election and the ability of Congress and Mr. Pence to overturn it. He has refused to accept the basic bargain of democracy, which is to accept the result, win or lose.
It is best for everyone, himself included, if he goes away quietly.
_____________________________
I say let the man serve out his Presidency. I believe he has served out nation well. Has he been the greatest? No…but I truly believe he loves this nation and wants the best for her citizens….the incoming administration in my estimation is bent on destroying us…..but God…..
Ok…. I’m somewhat tired from online teaching and annoyed that its been extended to another two weeks so I hope to keep it short.
The Election;
The Supreme Court or any court for that matter did not consider election fraud because evidence was never presented to any court. Again when asked by a Penn court if the Trump legal team was alleging fraud, they answered no. They had an opportunity to present their affidavits they chose not to. Many Republicans went along with the fraud allegations because it served their goal to suppress the vote. Mail-in voting works — For Oregon and some other states its the main form of voting.
The Media and Riots
Any peaceful protest will be overshadowed if there is an element of violence no matter how slight. This occurs no matter the ideology because violence sells. Don’t blame the media or journalists blame capitalism — eye balls to the paper/screen sell ads. And if the violent element is trashing the very center of power in the US, yes it will be all they talk about.
The Police;
The police are notorious for being much slacker on right wing protests than on left. Keep the focus on the actions of the capital police force on left wing protests — health care, kavanaugh, BLM etc and you will see a far greater reliance on force. Yesterday, the police made only mediocre attempt at crowd control. This wasn’t a ploy designed to allow the protesters access and then to blame them. They simply don’t treat white right wing protesters as an opposing force. A police officer inside the building was taking selfies with people who were trashing the place.
Its unfortunate people died and especially since it served no purpose.
The Mayor of Washington requested the DC National Guard the day before the march. The Dept of Defense, run by a Trump appointee, said no. Unlike a state gov’t, she has no access to the national guard. When BLM came to Washington in the summer, the Trump admin called out the National Guard prior to the protest and the pentagon flew helicopters so low people were being pushed down by the pressure. However, for this protest, the National Guard was kept home, despite the last time Trump supporters came a few weeks back they vandalized an African American church, the Trump admin felt they weren’t needed.
The National Guard would’ve kept protesters away from the Capitol building. With the guard in place, there’s no chance the young lady would’ve attempted to break into the Capital and induce a policeman into a panic shooting. There’s a direct link by the Trump admin’s denial of the National Guard and the death of the young lady. A party and admin that claimed to be the party of law and order failed basic law and order; if thousands of angry people are going to march onto the capital you might want to come prepared.
And then there’s Trump himself — in his speech, he directs the people to walk down the street to the capital to given some of the weaker Republicans more courage — directing the mob to the street as a mob lobby force. And then immediately after saying he would walk with them, he got in his limo and drove to his bunker.
Go ahead, it will be a joke, just like the first. You have 13 days, better get busy.
——
Like I said, enjoy what’s coming. The R party is dead. Millions of us will ensure it. If the rest of the party won’t stand against the fraud, illegal acts, and outright biased media because they don’t like Trump, then they can piss off next time they need our millions of votes. This already happened in Georgia. It’s why turnout was down. There’s much more to come.
Anyone who celebrates the "de-platforming" of the sitting President from social media — likely the most extreme thing which has happened over the past day — is a naked authoritarian who craves the punitive authority of tech companies to carrying out their political bidding
“Google has announced that YouTube channels that post videos containing false claims about the results of the United States presidential election, which made Joe Biden President-elect, will now be met with a strike. Back in December, the online video platform had announced that it would start removing these videos with false claims, but the channels posting them would not see any punishment as a result.
Initially, this grace period was set to last until Inauguration Day, on January 20. However, following the violent events at the Capitol building in Washington D.C. yesterday, and with Joe Biden being confirmed as the next U.S. President by the Electoral College, the company has decided to enforce the new rules immediately.”
I’m not a big fan of the “Castle Doctrine” or even the ever expanding definition of self defense in the US. In my view, the policeman in Milwaukee should have been charged and after an investigation if its determined that there wasn’t’ a direct threat to the officer’s life yesterday he too should be charged. Not first degree but manslaughter. However, if you are going to support the police in Milwaukee, Minneapolis etc then I would expect you would support the police defending the seat of government from a break in. I can’t recall the name but the man who shot Treyvan Martin should’ve been thrown in jail for life but the argument I hear in America is perception of threat and self defense. Surely those who supported that argument then can support the policeman in this case.
This summer, Trump tweeted that the protesters who destroyed federal property should be thrown in jail for at least 10 years. Yesterday, he said to the vandals, we love you but you need to go home. BLM was demanding the police stop killing them. Yesterday the protesters were upset they didn’t win. I’m okay with letting off a little steam and sometimes riots do produce results or at least bring attention to injustice — for every MLK there is also a Malcolm X. However, its one thing to riot to protest police violence and other to protest losing.
As I said yesterday, the remarkable thing is African Americans still believe in the ideals of American democracy. They are registering to vote in increasing numbers and led by hard working women like Stacy Abrams they are creating change. After Abrams lost, she went back to work and delivered Georgia to the Democratic party. You may not like their politics but African American women are working hard and despite barriers they are succeeding. Meanwhile you have an entitled old white trust fund baby…….maybe he should get a real job for the first time in his life
Tychicus, God has indeed used America to protect people around the world, and for many years America was an important “sending” nation for missionaries, and to some extent it still is. We’ve indeed served as an example of freedom. However, we’ve also offered a lot of “pollution” to the world, including acceptance and exportation of sexual sin of all sorts (pornography, fornication normed, easy divorce, homosexuality as a beautiful form of love) and have basically learned to applaud all the “deadly sins” in public. So we’re a mixed bag. And we send missionaries, but we have also exported the health-and-wealth message and Mormonism.
Trump has been pro-life, and he has chosen good people to serve under him, and he has made many good decisions. In 2016 I didn’t vote for him, and I said I would willingly sit out 2020 unless he earned my vote, which I didn’t expect him to do, but I was willing to let him try. He got it in 2020, though barely. I have heard that many people in other nations are really appalled by him. He is the public face of the stereotypical American, multiplied exponentially. A large percentage of America cannot stand him–and that includes many Republicans, some of them people who voted for him anyway. Many on the other side are genuinely afraid of what he might do–until this week I was not in that camp, but this week I’ve been rather shocked. it’s not a good thing when the leader of the free world makes people sorry they voted for him before he’d even begin his second term had he won.
You point out that I’m telling you many things you already knew–as I knew I was doing. But there comes a point when it’s good to hear it again. There is nothing we can do about having lost this election. If Trump continues to press, and if his supporters continue to press, it will cause harm and not peace. For Christians to step back, regroup, and remind ourselves God is still sovereign and still good, and that our hope never was in this crass, egotistical man, seems like a good thing. Maybe God knew we all needed to learn this lesson.
hweseeli, for George Zimmerman to be “thrown in jail for life” because he shot a man who was bashing his head into the sidewalk would have been a huge miscarriage of justice. This article is a good, but brief, summary of the real story of what happened that day: https://spectator.org/zimmerman-suit-trayvon-martin-black-lives-matter/
There are leftists who agree — the police let the protesters in as it was all planned because the police were Trump supporters and it was planned to stop the vote. Personally I think the police are so used to being nice to right wing protesters it never occurred to them to stop the protesters. Its not a conspiracy rather just police seeing white right wing protesters as people like their neighbours unlike blacks who they see as a threat.
Youtube, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc are all private corporations run for the benefit of their shareholders — not the national interest nor democratic ideals. This is capitalism, private property owners decide who can use their “property” — any attempt to use gov’t force Twitter or other platform to carry the words of a politician would be totalitarian socialism. Twitter etc have finally decided its detrimental to their image to carry the words of Trump — there’s only two week left so its time to walk away from him with minimal loss of profit.
On the other hand, I do think Trump should just finish the term. Its obvious he’s finally being told by the Republican party officials to button it up. To use the 25th or other means for two weeks is ridiculous — the Republican had their opportunity last year to do the right thing, now it would be attempt to whitewash their attempt to use Trump for their own means. I wonder however if some Trump supporters are going to let Republicans walk back their support. As Pence is trying to distance himself now, my Q-Anon friend from high school (and strangely a deeply religious Baptist) has taken to post some blunt memes alleging some sexual misdeeds of Pence that even the far left wouldn’t touch.
Cheryl — There are conflicting stories of what happened that night after Zimmerman got out of his car. He was instructed to stay in his car and let the police investigate. He didn’t. Anything that occurred after that is disputed. He shot Martin about 100 yards from his aunt’s house; its apparent he was walking home. I always wondered why the principle of self defense didn’t apply to Martin — he was being stalked as he walked home. Perhaps he perceived imminent harm (the standard for self defense in Florida) and defended himself — but we will never know because Zimmerman killed him and the dead can’t tell their side of the story.
My point in the context of yesterday is the lax standard of self defense in the US (by international standards) would mean the policeman would be justified in shooting the lady breaking into the capital building. In terms of consistency, my standard of self defence ( and in much of the rest of the world) would result in manslaughter charges to Zimmerman and the police in Milwaukee, Minneapolis and DC. For some to suggest the young lady was murdered by an out of control cop but then say the murders of black men in Milwaukee and Minneapolis were self defense is not consistent.
hwesseli, did you read the link I posted? According to trial evidence, when they told him to go back to his car, he walked back to it, and he was then followed and attacked. Much that came out at the time was indeed “conflicting,” but the 911 evidence was not. Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, with a very real threat to his life. It’s hard enough to have taken a life, but to then have your reputation ruined on top of it is unjust.
I don’t think the Capitol shooting will be claimed as self-defense. I’m not going to watch the video, but according to apparent eyewitness testimony, that falls under the category of “When you are breaking the law, and armed guards tell you to stop doing what you are doing, it is generally wisest to stop.” Not having been there myself, I don’t know for sure that that is what happened. But there is nothing pointing toward self-defense that I have heard.
My point is the lack of consistency from some on the right….the police were okay in Minneapolis but not in DC. At least I’m consistent…both weren’t okay.
For those who think antifa incited the break in and violence….most of the people in some of the more famous pictures have been identified with their names on facebook memes everywhere, and they’re not antifa. Apparently the guy walking around the capital bldg with s Confederate flag is a known member of right wing racist groups in Alberta. My apologies but can you keep him in the US?
A resignation might be the most gracious way to end that. The WSJ also believes an impeachable offense could be successfully charged after what happened this week.. And yes, a fair number of people are a bit more unnerved by Trump after Wednesday’s chaos and his rather odd behavior through it all.
It was not a good week and the after-taste is not going away anytime soon, as much as we wish it would.
I was in college when Nixon resigned. It actually brought a great deal of relief to the nation, I think, especially knowing how it all was destined to end anyway. It ended the contentious all-out battle in DC and the crusade to drive him out. For the Republicans, it wasn’t so satisfying, but it still offered some relief in simply ending what everyone had been through for so long. The country was exhausted (as it is now, I think). Even just 12 more days of high-wire tension probably won’t help anyone at this point.
I’m not sure we have many Republicans on this blog right now, I’m independent and I suspect a fair number of other conservatives here are as well. But half the country is more conservative than the Democrats (especially with the direction that party now is going). If the GOP literally dies (which I doubt; but reform? yes), a new political coalition, probably what’s left of the Republicans combined with others, would form fast enough.
Wandering Views 
I see on the TV that Trump has agreed to a peaceful transfer of the office.
That should not be an issue.
In America, one side wins, the others lose.
Life goes on.
To make an issue of this is bad news for America.
Even if the loser “agrees” to lose.
The fact that it went this far is bad news.
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Once again I’m forced to not print my response to this piece of trash.
So tell me you piece of trash, what made her deserve to be shot and killed?
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We need go go back to the old way of voting.
The “mail in” just doesn’t work.
Every voter shows up and cast his ballot.
That’s it.
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So when are they going to name the cowardly cop that was so scared of an unarmed teen girl that he/she shot and killed her?
https://nypost.com/2021/01/06/female-shot-during-chaotic-washington-dc-protests-has-died/?utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_campaign=SocialFlow
“The female protester shot inside the Capitol on Wednesday has died.
Sources said the woman succumbed to her injuries.
Law enforcement sources told The Post that the woman was apparently shot by Capitol Police.”
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Compare and contrast.
https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/01/republican-and-conservative-leaders-condemn-capitol-hill-violence/
“Republican and Conservative Leaders Condemn Capitol Hill Violence
Contrast with leftist justification for Antifa/BLM violence all summer.”
“One thing that stands out at this early stage about the violence on Capitol Hill is that the right—from Republican Congressmen to prominent media personalities—is calling with one voice for the violence to stop.
The contrast between the right’s immediate calls for an end to the violence and the months-long Democrat, media, and leftist sugar-coating (remember the antifa “summer of love”?), down-playing (mostly peaceful arson), and refusing to condemn antifa and BLM violence as it swept the nation’s cities in 2020 is stark.”
President Trump issues a strong request that the violence stop. He reminds the rioters, if they turn out to be Trump supporters, that “WE are the Party of Law & Order.””
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I see on TV that four people are now dead.
For what did they give their lives?
How does their death change anything?
I see, also on TV that Trump is calling for an orderly transfer of power.
QOD What other way do we transfer power?
I was on your side Don. But it’s over. Nothing else you can do.
Move on ’till next time. That’s the way it works.
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No mention of the teen girl they shot?
Of course not.
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False flags abound….
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/6/xrvision-firm-claims-antifa-infiltrated-protesters/
“Facial recognition firm claims Antifa infiltrated Trump protesters who stormed Capitol”
“Trump supporters say that Antifa members disguised as one of them infiltrated the protesters who stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.
A retired military officer told The Washington Times that the firm XRVision used its software to do facial recognition of protesters and matched two Philadelphia Antifa members to two men inside the Senate.
The source provided the photo match to The Times.
One has a tattoo that indicates he is a Stalinist sympathizer. Many Antifa members promote anarchy through violence and want the end of America in favor of a Stalinist-state. “No more USA at all” is a protest chant.
XRVision also has identified another man who, while not known to have Antifa links, is someone who shows up at climate and Black Lives Matter protests in the West.”
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Even the left knows this election was bogus.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2021/01/06/2020-election-mistrust-commission-prove-or-disprove-fraud-column/4132191001/
“I hate federal commissions, but Americans need one to look into the 2020 election
To restore faith, we must review how mail voting worked, analyze problems like uncounted votes, and conclusively prove or disprove fraud allegations.”
“I hate federal commissions. I have always hated federal commissions. Federal commissions are Washington’s way of managing scandals. They work like placebos for political fevers, convincing voters that answers and change are on the way. That is why it is so difficult for me to utter these words: We need a federal election commission. Not the one proposed by some Senate Republicans. And not like past placebo commissions. An honest-to-God, no-holds-barred federal commission to look into the 2020 presidential election.
With the challenge to the certification of election votes, some Republican members of Congress are calling to delay the proceedings for 10 days and impanel a commission to “audit” the results. There is precedent for such a commission. Just not good precedent. Indeed, citing the Electoral Commission of 1877 as a model of good constitutional process is like citing the Titanic as a model of good maritime navigation. The commission was an utter disaster.”
——-
“That is not what we need. There are three reasons why the need for a real commission is needed:
►First, and most important, this was an unprecedented election in the reliance of mail-in voting and the use of new voting systems and procedures. We need to review how that worked down to the smallest precincts and hamlets.
►Second, possibly tens of millions of voters believe that this election was rigged and stolen. I am not one of them. However, the integrity of our elections depends on the faith of the electorate.
Roughly 40% of that electorate have lingering doubts about whether their votes actually matter. Most of the cases challenging the election were not decided on the merits. Indeed, it seems they haven’t even been allowed for discovery. Instead, they were largely dismissed on jurisdictional or standing groups or under the “laches” doctrine that they were brought too late. Those allegations need to be conclusively proven or disproven in the interests of the country.
►Third, there were problems. There was not proof of systemic fraud or irregularities, but there were problems of uncounted votes, loss of key custodial information and key differences in the rules governing voting and tabulations.
We have spent billions to achieve greater security and reliability after prior election controversies. Indeed, we had a prior election commission that failed to achieve those fundamental goals.”
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What did you think would happen?
https://redstate.com/darth641/2021/01/07/opinion-just-what-were-you-expecting-n305623
“But before I get into that, I must draw some lines in the sand:
—Put your hands on a Law Enforcement Officer without just cause; You go to jail.
—Put your hands on another human being or threaten to do so without just cause; You go to jail.
—Damage public or private property; You go to jail.
—You illegally break into and/or trespass into a prohibited area or private property; You go to jail.
—You unlawfully impede the lawful business of government; Depending on circumstances, You go to jail.
All of those actions were committed by a very few persons present at the Capitol Building. Although more footage may come out, the only real crimes I saw evidence of, were some shoving back and forth between Capitol Police and folks attempting to breach security barriers (which they eventually did). I also saw some folks breaking some windows and entering in through them along with some other folks who managed to break into the Senate Chamber.
I do not support any of the above. Let me be clear. The folks who committed crimes today, should be arrested, tried and dealt with as a Judge and Jury determine. Having said that, let me tell you what most of the imagery showed today.
Except as noted above, almost all the imagery was of a peaceful, joyful protest. Whether walking on the street or gathered on the Capitol steps, people were waving flags and as far as I could see, nobody was throwing punches. Nobody was throwing bricks or Molotov cocktails. In fact, one video clip I found very interesting, was one group of protestors who managed to gain entry to the Capitol Building, was walking/strolling through Statuary Hall…and they were all staying inside the velvet guide ropes running down the center!! Nobody toppled any statues over or anything like that. Surely not some “maddened mob” as the media kept hyping all afternoon long.
Here are some things that bother me. First of all, the media. The way they were hyping this, you would think there was an all out assault by heavily armed rioters, hell bent on killing everyone inside the building. The media kept using the words, “shots fired,” implying that the “mob” had shot somebody, maybe even a policeman. Turns out, it was a Capitol policeman who shot an unarmed female protestor. Unknown at the time of this writing, if this was a “righteous shoot.”
Another thing that starched my shorts, was not only the effeminate media prissies like FOX News’ Chris Wallace, but also some supposedly on our team, like Minority leader Kevin McCarthy, were quick to badmouth the entire protest as a “mob” and an assault on the Constitution. This continued all afternoon as the press corralled every Republican they could find to badmouth peaceful protestors and pressure President Trump to tell them to go home.
Here is my question for every American (remember my opening statements); What did you think would happen?!
What did you think would happen when you impeached, under false pretenses, a President who was the choice of close to half of America?
What did you think would happen when you spent each and every day denigrating 73 million Trump supporters, calling them “bitter clingers,” “deplorables,” who live in “flyover country,” who go to work, pay their taxes and just want to be left alone?
What did you think would happen when you stole an election, right out in broad daylight…with the help of folks who are supposed to be on our side…I’m talking about the Georgia Secretary of State here. Then did it again two days ago, with the help of the very same SECSTATE.
What did you think would happen when the Supreme Court of these United States refused to hear us on a case in which they have primary jurisdiction?
What did you think would happen when 74 million Americans watched the folks supposedly on their own team, tell them to roll over and suck it up?
Going forward…Knowing that 74 million Republican, Independent, along with a few million Democrat voters did NOT vote for stacking the Supreme Court, the admission of Puerto Rico & DC as states, the “Green New Deal,” massive wealth redistribution, gun confiscation or national lockdowns or mask mandates…What do you think will happen when a totally leftist controlled government tries to ram those policies down our collective throats?”
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Since the media finally found a “mob” it doesn’t like, let’s compare and contrast.
Here’s a reminder…..
———
Now did you see anything burning yesterday? Any looting? Any shops and businesses destroyed? Anyone killed or injured, other than by police?
No. Not at all. But the media says this is the worst thing ever? Please. Spare me the drama queen act.
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It is unsettling and the silence on certain aspects of what happened is disturbing.
A friend was in attendance in DC yesterday. She, her husband and 16yr old son were on the lawn when police began removing the barriers. She asked why they were being removed…”we were ordered to remove them” was the response. Minutes later tear gas was thrown 5 ft from her…no disturbance was around her at the time…everything was peaceful. This is first hand accounting from friend…..she is appalled at what is being lied about by MSM… 😢
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I am sorry about that woman being shot and the others injured. I, however, cannot condemn those guarding the Capitol, thus the people within the Capitol. I know someone in law enforcement who had to shoot at one point and she still lives with the horror and sadness of it.
The whole thing is very strange, however. Especially when you hear things like the above from those there.
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It is my understanding that the SCOTUS never actually looked at the evidence of fraud. I’m fine with the Capitol buildings being in disarray and congress being unable to meet until there is a full, complete, and very public, televised hearing on the evidence. This will not be swept under the rug. Legitimacy requires it, and until it happens, there will be no new legitimate president. Just my opinion, of course.
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I am sad for those who found themselves in harms way. I am thankful for the police trying to bring order to chaos. I am dumbfounded when I see photos of “protestors” sitting in the seat of the Speaker of the House while others are taking “selfies” in that room!!….and sitting in Pelosi’s office chair, vandalizing her office?! Why were they not arrested post haste?!! How in the world could they occupy that room let alone gain access….something doesn’t add up….
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Ashli Babbit was the name of the patriot shot dead in the Capitol building during a mostly peaceful protest.
https://heavy.com/news/ashli-babbit/
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I notice that mail in ballots are present in every issue.
We need to get away from mail-in.
If you want to vote, show up at the polling place.
It always worked in the past.
Mail in will never work. Too much opportunity for scam.
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I posted more about all this in the early morning hours (of today) on yesterday’s thread.
This is terribly disappointing. The players who followed the rules end up losing because the other players cheated, and the refs simply ignore it all!
However, I don’t believe that it is all over just yet…
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Trump promises ‘orderly transition’ on Jan. 20 after Electoral College results certified — Fox News
Some good news if the promise holds — finally.
Are we still stuck in 2020 somehow?
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C’mon in!
https://mobile.twitter.com/sugaspov/status/1346919943238000645
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Chas, as far as I know, there has always been provision for people who can’t physically go to the polls. Military stationed overseas or people who are housebound shouldn’t be kept from voting. Have rules about absentee voting, and follow the rules, but you just can’t refuse to allow people to vote because they can’t get to the polls on election day.
In a pandemic year, there had to be ways to allow isolating people to vote. My husband and I voted by mail this year, first time I’ve ever done so (I don’t know if he has before). It was either that or not vote at all. I wasn’t going to risk his life just to vote. Surely it is possible to have a fair election and still allow people to vote.
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The woman fatally shot inside the U.S. Capitol Wednesday has been identified as Ashli Babbitt, a friend confirms to Fox News. Babbitt was a 14-year veteran who served four tours with the Air Force and resided in San Diego, according to media reports.
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Tychicus, I do know your screen name is from Scripture, and sorry I’d misspelled it. I thought there was a second h in there. Are you hoping for civil war, or for a peaceful transfer or power?
I forget where you live. Are you in a big city, a red state or blue state? What’s your day job, or are you retired? I’m not trying to be nosy, and not asking for details, but just wondering how all this affects you that you are so “invested” in it.
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Agreed, Debra, at 10:15.
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So they let them in yet claim they stormed the gates?
Someone is lying, and it’s not the video.
This is what Tychicus tried to post.
https://twitter.com/sugaspov/status/1346919943238000645
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Re the squabble over the “outside agitators” — both sides have plenty of bad actors in their own right, that shouldn’t be hard to admit. Gather a riled-up mob together and they will, predictably, appear, and mayhem will ensue. Few things are politically more predictable than that.
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DJ,
The fact that she was a 4 tour vet who served her country honorably makes her murder even worse.
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How a good number of folks in this crowd were able to get close enough to scale the walls and occupy the Senate chambers and lawmakers’ offices needs to be seriously looked into, as does the shooting (as it will be) and any number of other things that occurred.
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If she were Antifa who was unlawfully inside the nation’s Capitol would your response be the same, AJ?
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Just saying we need to make sure we’re applying the same standard in our own views of what happened. It requires a certain ability to “step aside” from our own preconceived notions and biases, never easy for any of us due to human nature, I realize.
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Kizzie,
I saw your Facebook post. How do you know it’s not just photoshopped, as so much is on Fraudbook.
My response is above at 8:12.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/6/xrvision-firm-claims-antifa-infiltrated-protesters/
“A retired military officer told The Washington Times that the firm XRVision used its software to do facial recognition of protesters and matched two Philadelphia Antifa members to two men inside the Senate.
The source provided the photo match to The Times.
One has a tattoo that indicates he is a Stalinist sympathizer. Many Antifa members promote anarchy through violence and want the end of America in favor of a Stalinist-state. “No more USA at all” is a protest chant.
XRVision also has identified another man who, while not known to have Antifa links, is someone who shows up at climate and Black Lives Matter protests in the West.””
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Now that’s not to say there weren’t right wingers acting stupid too, there clearly were some. But that’s not all it was, despite what someone posted on Facebook.
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The BBC had an article on several of the “protestors” and their history as agitators for the past several years.
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There are also anarchists, right and left, who have all kinds of grievances and thrive on these kinds of huge gatherings (which is why I learned long ago that they’re almost always bad news at the outset — and situations that Christians, in particular, need to stay clear of for obvious reasons).
What happened yesterday was shocking in a unique way. Looking afterward at all the video footage and photos from inside the Capitol itself was alarming for all Americans, no other way to characterize that.
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Trying to shift the blame on “which side” started this misses the point, I think.
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The accusations and finger-pointing are flying furiously right now. Lots of noise.
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If people had instead breached the White House and were inside “the People’s House,” would those presenting this as a good thing be saying the same thing? BTW, I don’t know the circumstances of that young woman being shot, but “murder” isn’t the right word for someone being killed by the police while engaged in unlawful activity. Someone who claimed to have been right beside her said she was trying to climb through a window, was told to stop, and didn’t stop. I don’t know if that is true, but “murder” is the wrong word in this situation.
DJ: I see you.
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Yes DJ, it would be the same.
You don’t shoot unarmed citizens.
What’s so hard about that to understand?
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R.I.P.’s
Call it. This party is dead. You’ve just lost millions of voters and will never win a national election again.
Enjoy.
———-
The GOP
1854-2021
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Cheryl: I mentioned to you not long ago that I live in Central Europe – the Czech Republic, to be precise. My wife and I have served here in missions for the past 30 years, and before that we were involved in smuggling Bibles and other Christian literature into the countries of Communist Eastern Europe. During those two years as singles on our team, we joined a smaller department of that team that organized more open summer evangelistic campaigns in the campsites of Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. During the year, we would travel to those countries in order to follow up with contacts made during those summers.
Why I am I so invested? Mainly b/c I have lived among and rubbed shoulders with people who once lived under the oppression of socialism and communism, and so when I see my home country headed in that same direction, it is very concerning and disturbing. It’s quite striking to read the comments of immigrants to the USA from Central and Eastern Europe who insist, “Please don’t allow socialism/communism to gain a foothold in the US – we have suffered under that authoritarianism, and you don’t want to have to experience it.” I also know that the US has been the greatest beacon of freedom and liberty around the world, and if it falls, it certainly doesn’t bode well for the rest of the world. We’re closer than ever to Christ’s return, but I’m hoping that the USA can still be that beacon and a restraint against evil for at least another season.
I guess posting here also allows me to ‘vent’ somewhat, and simply be in touch somewhat with my home culture. The bigger question concerning the election issue is: Shouldn’t we all be invested?
Am I hoping for civil war? Of course not. I think we should all desire the peaceful transfer of power. Having said that, there can very well come a time in a nation’s history when, as Jefferson said, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of Patriots and Tyrants.” We may be getting very close to that point. Or we could come to the point of a peaceful secession. Given those two choices, I would prefer the latter. How about you?
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AJ, I don’t really understand the “unarmed citizens” part of that. Police can only shoot people if they can shoot back, not in any other circumstance? Indeed, if you tell someone to stop doing whatever they are doing and to put their arms above their head, and they comply, then the person should not be shot. But what if the person doesn’t stop? Do you assume such a person is unarmed and let him do whatever he is doing as long as he doesn’t draw a gun? I’m not defending a specific shooting; I know almost nothing about the circumstances. But “shooting an unarmed citizen” has long been a harsh accusation against the police that ignores nuance.
The person pointing a gun at you is a more immediate threat, and is the person we think of in terms of someone being shot by police. But we’ve had lots of riots in this country this summer over “unarmed” citizens being shot by the police, and as it turns out, in nearly every case the person was still a danger to police and was disobeying police orders. In one case in Chicago years ago, a police officer was blasted in the media for shooting an unarmed citizen. Well, if the story the police told was accurate, the citizen had hold of an officer’s gun and was wrestling him for it when shot by another officer. His being “unarmed” was a smokescreen–he was trying to arm himself and could well have been successful! A person high on PCPs might likewise be “unarmed” but very dangerous.
My question about the White House wasn’t a specific connection to the shooting, BTW. One or more people indicated on here yesterday that it was OK for people to be insider Senators’ offices because they aren’t “really” their offices at all, but ours. I was asking if it would work that way if people made their way into the living quarters of the White House, if you’d shrug it off as “Hey, it’s the People’s House and not President Trump’s, so it’s OK.”
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We probably all have our views on how the party imploded, various autopsies will go around.
But I actually think this could be a good “break” in the current dismal GOP era for conservatives to reorganize with some new faces. The parties (or their constituencies) do survive these implosions, there’s nothing new under the sun. The nation remains pretty much evenly divided and while the Democrats have taken all three governing bodies in DC, the margins were and are narrow. What they need to be careful of is overreach, but I expect they won’t be careful. Then you’ll have the pushback and in 2 years there will be a new political game underway.
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Thanks, Tychicus. I knew that at one point you’d been a missionary, but didn’t know if you still were.
We have enough connections with China and other lands to understand that Communism is really bad. I have stated on here that I think Biden is mostly a helpless puppet now, but that Harris is both wicked and dangerous. I don’t think the results of this election were good at all.
I also think that legal means to contest the election results were tried, and they failed, and it is time to accept the results of the election, and that refusal to accept the results is every bit as dangerous. (If the Republican party is dead, it is because people have linked it to Donald Trump, who has made himself odious to the nation.)
The USA never was that beacon and restraint against evil, except in a very limited way as God allowed. This is actually part of the reason I wondered about your day job, and why I asked: If you are in the ministry of preaching Christ and Him crucified, and preaching from Scripture, then you affirm that God is sovereign over history, that He raises up leaders and lets them fall, and that human government is far more limited than its rulers believe. The real “power” is the power not to coerce but to change human hearts. The real power is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In a nation where people largely accept Christian principles, even unbelievers are going to largely live by culturally accepted mores. A land where people believe in working for their bread, where people marry before they have sex and bear children, where people obey the law, etc. is going to be an easier place to govern. But those are secondary principles. An immoral people is an ungovernable people, and we are becoming that. An ungovernable people is going to be ruled by tyranny, or will descend to anarchy.
What we see is not ultimately a political problem at all, but a spiritual one.
For us Christians, politics is a secondary issue, or a tertiary issue. If you asked the Christians in China whether they would rather have religious freedom or biblically orthodox preaching, they would choose the latter. Yes, we hope and pray for continuing freedom of religion, freedom of speech, and so forth. But for ministers of the Gospel, politics is a distraction. You have a more important calling. The power to change lives and hearts is in the Word of God, not in political power.
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Looking at potential issues in Georgia and how the state checked them out: https://world.wng.org/2021/01/election_challenges_center_on_electoral_college_tally
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As I was driving home from town just now a news report stated the unarmed woman shot to death was trying to enter the room where our leaders were. The reporter said “he had no choice”…she was coming towards the doors and he told her to stop…I assume she wasn’t stopping? Sad all the way around….
And that video proves out what my friend experienced….they took the barriers away. Some believe it was all a set up…to slime the President and take the focus off of the corruption of the election… 😢
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Nancyjill, the other view could also say it was intentionally orchestrated by the president following the rally to allow a show of popular force (not that he intended it to go as far as it did?).
As I said, a whole lot of noise (and again no shortage of theories and speculation bouncing around on both “sides”) right now.
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The nation seems to be experiencing an unfortunate upswing in partisan extremism all the way around.
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AJ – The Washington Times has retracted that article because it was false. The guy with the facepaint and horns is known as the QAnon Shaman. Not sure if the other guy is the same one I read about, but the tattoo of the bearded guy is from a video game.
https://www.thatsnonsense.com/was-it-antifa-that-stormed-capitol-building-fact-check/?fbclid=IwAR2WOy_aimUiZ075eL9HUOWLjcyeaSWtg8l6ExWL9Mvx_bcnlzBtI8t_CVY
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Here’s another fraud check: the Michigan “ballot dump.” https://www.thatsnonsense.com/did-joe-biden-receive-100-of-a-mail-in-ballot-dump-in-michigan-fact-check/ (By the way, if you’re keeping track, I’ve posted articles on “both sides” of various issues in the election. I post what looks credible, not what I hope is true or have already determined to be true.)
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Cheryl: I was somewhat hesitant to share what I shared with you, b/c I was afraid you might respond as you responded. Of course I have an important calling, and I live it out here. Of course the power to change lives and hearts is the Word of God, not political power. And politics is a tertiary issue, but it is important – especially when a nation is at a crossroads of choosing between the way of freedom or the way of repression. (I don’t even usually post here very often, though I have done so more recently during this Covid time when we are more home bound, and for the reasons that I touched on above.) You don’t know me or my environment, you only ‘see’ me here, which is, after all, dedicated to News and Politics.
God has used the USA as a restraint against Nazism and Communism, against tyrants and terrorists. It’s been a beacon of freedom for individuals who have fled tyranny for centuries, and where they could then live under the concept of E Pluribus Unum – an experiment focusing not on tribalism like so much of the rest of the world, but rather on our similarities. Perhaps you haven’t lived abroad anywhere for any length of time where people are much more restricted, but I have been around many who truly view the USA as a beacon of freedom and democracy, a “city on a hill” that inspires them and is attractive for them. (If the Biden admin truly takes over, then the USA certainly won’t be all that, and we will rapidly decline.)
However, it was also a recognition that what unites us and not what divides us is what keeps us together, but that doesn’t appear to be sustainable anymore.
I believe that the Trump administration (despite DT’s personal flaws) has been a great force for good not only for our country, but for the whole world (and actually more so than any previous administration). Problems in the Republican party are much more b/c of RiNOs, not Trump. About 80,000,000 voters would disagree with your notion that he is odious to the nation.
Legal means to contest the election results have been tried and failed? What court or legal body has actually examined the overwhelming evidence, including well over 1,000 sworn affidavits? Who is actually supporting “We the People” in this effort? When people are being disenfranchised b/c of a rigged election, how is it a government “for the people”? How can you (we) be willing to accept such massive fraud? Are we a Republic, or aren’t we?
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Btw, has anyone seen or heard from Bill & Hillary Clinton, or Hunter Biden, since, say, mid-December? Chew on that one for awhile…
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Interesting clip of Charles Krauthammer in 2017 (I miss his voice) who noted how both parties had begun speaking in “apocalyptic” language — if he other side wins, the nation will collapse, etc. That’s true in spades now.
Hoping some of this can be toned down a bit on both sides now, but I won’t hold my breath.
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We have known people through Art’s work who came here to escape oppressive communism and socialism and from their stories I know that Tychicus is speaking truth.
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Oh I miss his voice too Dj…
I just find it interesting how the MSM now lobs charges against the “other side” for what they have been condoning for months…all because when it was happening on “their side” it fit the narrative. Waters calling for violence against Republicans/Trump supporters. Harris being quoted saying “protestors should not let up”, Pressley stating “there needs to be unrest in the streets”….So now these same women want to impose the 25th amendment to remove Trump for inciting what happened yesterday…their duplicity is off the charts!
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Well said, Tychicus. Thank you.
Cheryl, I am part of this nation and I do not consider President Trump to be odious, but rather, the best President we have had in ages.
A bunch of people gathered for a rally, some of them marched to the Capitol. Some of them entered and some of them caused damage. Several have been identified as agitators from other events.
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nancyjill, I agree (7 p.m.). Unfortunately, the media (generally speaking) is what it is right now, I get the frustration, but …. the only way that changes is from within. I believe that will happen, but perhaps not for some time. But remember, some of the alternative media isn’t much better, sadly, and some of it’s much worse, just on the other end of the spectrum.
Not all mainstream media is slanted, and not everything in an outlet that is considered “liberal” or slanted is wrong (there are still good reporters and good editors out there at every publication). But it makes for a lot of work and discernment by news consumers.
Agenda-driven media on both the right and left need to be read with a grain of salt and keeping those stated agendas in mind. Throw a grain of salt in for regular media, too.
Just to turn it around a bit, however, it’s interesting that many on the left argued also that most of the protestors during the summer were peaceful and the gatherings then were disrupted by a relative few.
Another cautionary tale about any mass gatherings ramped up by emotion. They go sideways all too easily. On both sides.
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A reliable trustworthy media is needed now more than ever, perhaps — but it is a private industry, it’s not a monolith but is a competitive private business consisting of many disparate parts.
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True.
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Resignation?
I was thinking about this earlier, just in light of what seems to be a storm that won’t pass in 12 days.
Here’s today’s WSJ editorial (WSJ is a conservative outlet)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trumps-final-days-11610062773
OPINION
Donald Trump’s Final Days
The best outcome would be for him to resign to spare the U.S. another impeachment fight.
___________________________
The lodestar of these columns is the U.S. Constitution. The document is the durable foundation protecting liberty, and this week it showed its virtue again. Despite being displaced for a time by a mob, Congress returned the same day to ratify the Electoral College vote and Joe Biden’s election. Congratulations to the President-elect, who will be inaugurated as the Constitution stipulates at noon on Jan. 20.
***
That still leaves Wednesday’s disgrace and what to do about the 13 days left in Donald Trump’s presidential term. Democratic leaders Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are demanding that Mr. Trump be removed from office immediately—either by the Cabinet under the 25th Amendment or new articles of impeachment. There’s partisan animus at work here, but Mr. Trump’s actions on Wednesday do raise constitutional questions that aren’t casually dismissed.
In concise summary, on Wednesday the leader of the executive branch incited a crowd to march on the legislative branch. The express goal was to demand that Congress and Vice President Mike Pence reject electors from enough states to deny Mr. Biden an Electoral College victory. When some in the crowd turned violent and occupied the Capitol, the President caviled and declined for far too long to call them off. When he did speak, he hedged his plea with election complaint. …
… Mr. Trump’s many opponents are crowing in satisfaction that their predictions have been proven right, that he was never fit to be President and should have been impeached long ago. But Mr. Trump’s character flaws were apparent for all to see when he ran for President.
Sixty-three million Americans voted to elect Mr. Trump in 2016, and that constitutional process shouldn’t be easily overruled as Democrats and the press have demanded from nearly his first day in office. …
… If Mr. Trump wants to avoid a second impeachment, his best path would be to take personal responsibility and resign. This would be the cleanest solution since it would immediately turn presidential duties over to Mr. Pence. And it would give Mr. Trump agency, a la Richard Nixon, over his own fate.
This might also stem the flood of White House and Cabinet resignations that are understandable as acts of conscience but could leave the government dangerously unmanned. Robert O’Brien, the national security adviser, in particular should stay at his post.
We know an act of grace by Mr. Trump isn’t likely. In any case this week has probably finished him as a serious political figure. He has cost Republicans the House, the White House, and now the Senate. Worse, he has betrayed his loyal supporters by lying to them about the election and the ability of Congress and Mr. Pence to overturn it. He has refused to accept the basic bargain of democracy, which is to accept the result, win or lose.
It is best for everyone, himself included, if he goes away quietly.
_____________________________
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I say let the man serve out his Presidency. I believe he has served out nation well. Has he been the greatest? No…but I truly believe he loves this nation and wants the best for her citizens….the incoming administration in my estimation is bent on destroying us…..but God…..
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Ok…. I’m somewhat tired from online teaching and annoyed that its been extended to another two weeks so I hope to keep it short.
The Election;
The Supreme Court or any court for that matter did not consider election fraud because evidence was never presented to any court. Again when asked by a Penn court if the Trump legal team was alleging fraud, they answered no. They had an opportunity to present their affidavits they chose not to. Many Republicans went along with the fraud allegations because it served their goal to suppress the vote. Mail-in voting works — For Oregon and some other states its the main form of voting.
The Media and Riots
Any peaceful protest will be overshadowed if there is an element of violence no matter how slight. This occurs no matter the ideology because violence sells. Don’t blame the media or journalists blame capitalism — eye balls to the paper/screen sell ads. And if the violent element is trashing the very center of power in the US, yes it will be all they talk about.
The Police;
The police are notorious for being much slacker on right wing protests than on left. Keep the focus on the actions of the capital police force on left wing protests — health care, kavanaugh, BLM etc and you will see a far greater reliance on force. Yesterday, the police made only mediocre attempt at crowd control. This wasn’t a ploy designed to allow the protesters access and then to blame them. They simply don’t treat white right wing protesters as an opposing force. A police officer inside the building was taking selfies with people who were trashing the place.
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Its unfortunate people died and especially since it served no purpose.
The Mayor of Washington requested the DC National Guard the day before the march. The Dept of Defense, run by a Trump appointee, said no. Unlike a state gov’t, she has no access to the national guard. When BLM came to Washington in the summer, the Trump admin called out the National Guard prior to the protest and the pentagon flew helicopters so low people were being pushed down by the pressure. However, for this protest, the National Guard was kept home, despite the last time Trump supporters came a few weeks back they vandalized an African American church, the Trump admin felt they weren’t needed.
The National Guard would’ve kept protesters away from the Capitol building. With the guard in place, there’s no chance the young lady would’ve attempted to break into the Capital and induce a policeman into a panic shooting. There’s a direct link by the Trump admin’s denial of the National Guard and the death of the young lady. A party and admin that claimed to be the party of law and order failed basic law and order; if thousands of angry people are going to march onto the capital you might want to come prepared.
And then there’s Trump himself — in his speech, he directs the people to walk down the street to the capital to given some of the weaker Republicans more courage — directing the mob to the street as a mob lobby force. And then immediately after saying he would walk with them, he got in his limo and drove to his bunker.
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Resign?
Why?
A second impeachment?
Go ahead, it will be a joke, just like the first. You have 13 days, better get busy.
——
Like I said, enjoy what’s coming. The R party is dead. Millions of us will ensure it. If the rest of the party won’t stand against the fraud, illegal acts, and outright biased media because they don’t like Trump, then they can piss off next time they need our millions of votes. This already happened in Georgia. It’s why turnout was down. There’s much more to come.
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Oh, and here’s more footage of those “evil” protesters being let in by police.
Almost like it was planned.
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Remember the good old days when violence actually happened but the media praised it?
Yeah, good times….
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Cheryl,
I’ll not waste any of my time on your hypotheticals.
The lady was standing there watching, doing nothing else. She was unjustifiably shot. Other situations are irrelevant.
They shot and murdered an unarmed woman. It was criminal.
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Ah yes, the good old days…..
———
Now they let them and then shot one. Some animals are more equal than others I guess.
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The media is an enemy of the people.
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Dissent will not be tolerated.
And just think how much fun they’ll have with total control of our got. Yay.
https://www.neowin.net/news/youtube-channels-making-false-claims-about-the-us-election-will-now-get-a-strike
“Google has announced that YouTube channels that post videos containing false claims about the results of the United States presidential election, which made Joe Biden President-elect, will now be met with a strike. Back in December, the online video platform had announced that it would start removing these videos with false claims, but the channels posting them would not see any punishment as a result.
Initially, this grace period was set to last until Inauguration Day, on January 20. However, following the violent events at the Capitol building in Washington D.C. yesterday, and with Joe Biden being confirmed as the next U.S. President by the Electoral College, the company has decided to enforce the new rules immediately.”
———-
Google will be a benevolent censor……
At first anyway….
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I’m not a big fan of the “Castle Doctrine” or even the ever expanding definition of self defense in the US. In my view, the policeman in Milwaukee should have been charged and after an investigation if its determined that there wasn’t’ a direct threat to the officer’s life yesterday he too should be charged. Not first degree but manslaughter. However, if you are going to support the police in Milwaukee, Minneapolis etc then I would expect you would support the police defending the seat of government from a break in. I can’t recall the name but the man who shot Treyvan Martin should’ve been thrown in jail for life but the argument I hear in America is perception of threat and self defense. Surely those who supported that argument then can support the policeman in this case.
This summer, Trump tweeted that the protesters who destroyed federal property should be thrown in jail for at least 10 years. Yesterday, he said to the vandals, we love you but you need to go home. BLM was demanding the police stop killing them. Yesterday the protesters were upset they didn’t win. I’m okay with letting off a little steam and sometimes riots do produce results or at least bring attention to injustice — for every MLK there is also a Malcolm X. However, its one thing to riot to protest police violence and other to protest losing.
As I said yesterday, the remarkable thing is African Americans still believe in the ideals of American democracy. They are registering to vote in increasing numbers and led by hard working women like Stacy Abrams they are creating change. After Abrams lost, she went back to work and delivered Georgia to the Democratic party. You may not like their politics but African American women are working hard and despite barriers they are succeeding. Meanwhile you have an entitled old white trust fund baby…….maybe he should get a real job for the first time in his life
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Tychicus, God has indeed used America to protect people around the world, and for many years America was an important “sending” nation for missionaries, and to some extent it still is. We’ve indeed served as an example of freedom. However, we’ve also offered a lot of “pollution” to the world, including acceptance and exportation of sexual sin of all sorts (pornography, fornication normed, easy divorce, homosexuality as a beautiful form of love) and have basically learned to applaud all the “deadly sins” in public. So we’re a mixed bag. And we send missionaries, but we have also exported the health-and-wealth message and Mormonism.
Trump has been pro-life, and he has chosen good people to serve under him, and he has made many good decisions. In 2016 I didn’t vote for him, and I said I would willingly sit out 2020 unless he earned my vote, which I didn’t expect him to do, but I was willing to let him try. He got it in 2020, though barely. I have heard that many people in other nations are really appalled by him. He is the public face of the stereotypical American, multiplied exponentially. A large percentage of America cannot stand him–and that includes many Republicans, some of them people who voted for him anyway. Many on the other side are genuinely afraid of what he might do–until this week I was not in that camp, but this week I’ve been rather shocked. it’s not a good thing when the leader of the free world makes people sorry they voted for him before he’d even begin his second term had he won.
You point out that I’m telling you many things you already knew–as I knew I was doing. But there comes a point when it’s good to hear it again. There is nothing we can do about having lost this election. If Trump continues to press, and if his supporters continue to press, it will cause harm and not peace. For Christians to step back, regroup, and remind ourselves God is still sovereign and still good, and that our hope never was in this crass, egotistical man, seems like a good thing. Maybe God knew we all needed to learn this lesson.
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hweseeli, for George Zimmerman to be “thrown in jail for life” because he shot a man who was bashing his head into the sidewalk would have been a huge miscarriage of justice. This article is a good, but brief, summary of the real story of what happened that day: https://spectator.org/zimmerman-suit-trayvon-martin-black-lives-matter/
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AJ
There are leftists who agree — the police let the protesters in as it was all planned because the police were Trump supporters and it was planned to stop the vote. Personally I think the police are so used to being nice to right wing protesters it never occurred to them to stop the protesters. Its not a conspiracy rather just police seeing white right wing protesters as people like their neighbours unlike blacks who they see as a threat.
Youtube, Google, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, etc are all private corporations run for the benefit of their shareholders — not the national interest nor democratic ideals. This is capitalism, private property owners decide who can use their “property” — any attempt to use gov’t force Twitter or other platform to carry the words of a politician would be totalitarian socialism. Twitter etc have finally decided its detrimental to their image to carry the words of Trump — there’s only two week left so its time to walk away from him with minimal loss of profit.
On the other hand, I do think Trump should just finish the term. Its obvious he’s finally being told by the Republican party officials to button it up. To use the 25th or other means for two weeks is ridiculous — the Republican had their opportunity last year to do the right thing, now it would be attempt to whitewash their attempt to use Trump for their own means. I wonder however if some Trump supporters are going to let Republicans walk back their support. As Pence is trying to distance himself now, my Q-Anon friend from high school (and strangely a deeply religious Baptist) has taken to post some blunt memes alleging some sexual misdeeds of Pence that even the far left wouldn’t touch.
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Cheryl — There are conflicting stories of what happened that night after Zimmerman got out of his car. He was instructed to stay in his car and let the police investigate. He didn’t. Anything that occurred after that is disputed. He shot Martin about 100 yards from his aunt’s house; its apparent he was walking home. I always wondered why the principle of self defense didn’t apply to Martin — he was being stalked as he walked home. Perhaps he perceived imminent harm (the standard for self defense in Florida) and defended himself — but we will never know because Zimmerman killed him and the dead can’t tell their side of the story.
My point in the context of yesterday is the lax standard of self defense in the US (by international standards) would mean the policeman would be justified in shooting the lady breaking into the capital building. In terms of consistency, my standard of self defence ( and in much of the rest of the world) would result in manslaughter charges to Zimmerman and the police in Milwaukee, Minneapolis and DC. For some to suggest the young lady was murdered by an out of control cop but then say the murders of black men in Milwaukee and Minneapolis were self defense is not consistent.
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hwesseli, did you read the link I posted? According to trial evidence, when they told him to go back to his car, he walked back to it, and he was then followed and attacked. Much that came out at the time was indeed “conflicting,” but the 911 evidence was not. Zimmerman was acting in self-defense, with a very real threat to his life. It’s hard enough to have taken a life, but to then have your reputation ruined on top of it is unjust.
I don’t think the Capitol shooting will be claimed as self-defense. I’m not going to watch the video, but according to apparent eyewitness testimony, that falls under the category of “When you are breaking the law, and armed guards tell you to stop doing what you are doing, it is generally wisest to stop.” Not having been there myself, I don’t know for sure that that is what happened. But there is nothing pointing toward self-defense that I have heard.
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My point is the lack of consistency from some on the right….the police were okay in Minneapolis but not in DC. At least I’m consistent…both weren’t okay.
Aj –‘ you mention the police complacency seemed planned…the some leftists agree.
https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1
For those who think antifa incited the break in and violence….most of the people in some of the more famous pictures have been identified with their names on facebook memes everywhere, and they’re not antifa. Apparently the guy walking around the capital bldg with s Confederate flag is a known member of right wing racist groups in Alberta. My apologies but can you keep him in the US?
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It will be a long and contentious 12 days ahead.
A resignation might be the most gracious way to end that. The WSJ also believes an impeachable offense could be successfully charged after what happened this week.. And yes, a fair number of people are a bit more unnerved by Trump after Wednesday’s chaos and his rather odd behavior through it all.
It was not a good week and the after-taste is not going away anytime soon, as much as we wish it would.
I was in college when Nixon resigned. It actually brought a great deal of relief to the nation, I think, especially knowing how it all was destined to end anyway. It ended the contentious all-out battle in DC and the crusade to drive him out. For the Republicans, it wasn’t so satisfying, but it still offered some relief in simply ending what everyone had been through for so long. The country was exhausted (as it is now, I think). Even just 12 more days of high-wire tension probably won’t help anyone at this point.
I’m not sure we have many Republicans on this blog right now, I’m independent and I suspect a fair number of other conservatives here are as well. But half the country is more conservative than the Democrats (especially with the direction that party now is going). If the GOP literally dies (which I doubt; but reform? yes), a new political coalition, probably what’s left of the Republicans combined with others, would form fast enough.
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