I heard an interesting take on the Ford/Kavanagh thing on FoxNews last night.
A woman is the only one to think of this. She said:
“It s surprising that no other women have come out to support Ford. If something happened, she told her friends. Girls talk to their friends. Somebody else has heard of this.”
That is true. Men don’t talk about such things, unless they are bragging. But I have noticed that women talk to each other. They will keep secrets. It’s a girl thing.
If it happened, some other women know.
The first time we have given permission to son to do something (homecoming dance) and he did not come home afterward. Poor decision making continues. On our part or his?
It’s interesting he asked, then broke the rules. I don’t know what I would be doing.
OTOH, he’s 17, knew the rules and stayed out anyway. Do you have any leverage at this point?
(Novelist asking. Godly mother would be praying for wisdom . . . As I’m sure you two are and my husband would be. Sigh. It’s so hard for me to set aside the sin of manipulation!)
Along with what Kizzie said and playing devil’s advocate (as I remain somewhat skeptical of the Ford story personally), but she also may have felt she was partly at fault for allowing herself to be in such a situation in which she became so vulnerable. Maybe she was just grateful to have escaped with as limited an incident as she did.
Did you see the pages taken from their yearbooks–which had been conveniently removed from social media before she went “live?” High school for some, apparently, was nothing more than a drunken brawl.
Which is where son is, though apparently without the alcohol, though that might have changed last night.
What we need to weigh is the benefit of school (at least he goes even though he just plays on the internet all day) against the hurt of school (where he is just wasting his time and theirs). We don’t want this to be about how he is treating us, but the attitude behind it. Can we in any way, help him get past this? We mostly don’t think so, but still have a little ray of hope. And the inconvenience of me missing out on nights of sleep, wondering if he is home yet or not. Which is part of take every thought captive. I did use the time to pray for your new baby, and Kare, and others on here.
If Kavannaugh is guilty, there’s the added problem of his lying about it, which also is a big deal.
If it happened, though, it also raises the question of what was going on before the incident by way of banter or other interactions among those involved.
Teens can be stupid, which is no surprise to anyone.
But I still retain my skepticism about the allegations in this case.
Unfortunately, there’s really no sure-fire way to absolutely prove or disprove it, especially after so many years and having happened, allegedly, in the pre-social media/cell phone photos dark ages.
Everyone’s mind is mostly made up to believe one side or the other by now, the lines have been drawn. All that’s left is the actual public blood letting.
Another problem is in this era it is considered almost the worst of betrayals not to “believe” the person who makes a claim of impropriety against a man (even if you don’t know the woman and have no idea of her integrity or lack of it, and even if you do know the man is a man of honor). Of course he did it!
I keep coming back to, “I believe in the rule of law.”
I’m sorry so many spent their teen years in a bacchanalian orgy and regret what happened.
But do the rest of us have to pay the price for those foolish choices?
OTOH, it’s weaning me off social media. I can’t bear to read these stories–no matter which side–it all feels so very dirty, unappealing and unappetizing.
And all the other people dragged into it, particularly the kids.
Or it could be that they were all intoxicated and doing the typical wrestling that goes on in such places and he does not remember it as a stand out moment. But it does not sound like that is what he was doing. Though it does sound like what she was doing.
We have gone through the accusations, it is not a fun time. Praying for him and family and the accuser. May the Truth be found.
Yes, girls can be silent about this type of thing. I, personally, know a woman who was date raped in college and never said a word until years later in therapy, for example.
However, it is difficult to believe, that even after all these years something so traumatizing according to the victim, would not be remembered with quite a bit of detail. I am very skeptical about recovered memories as a whole. They have been notorious for being false.
None of us know the truth, but the whole timing and way it was handled is terribly suspicious.
Mumsee – What did you mean by this in your 3:45 comment – “Though it does sound like what she was doing.” Do you mean it sounds like she was interested in the “wrestling” you mention?
From what I have read of her story, she was shoved into the room, she didn’t go willingly.
I’ve heard that she had “recovered memories” in couples counseling, too, but I also have read other things that indicated she remembered all along.
This WP article says (referring to her time of dating the man who became her husband), “As their relationship deepened, Ford told him she’d been physically abused years earlier. He would learn the specifics of the event, including Kavanaugh’s name, during a couple’s therapy session years later. But then, he just listened.”
I can understand that if someone did that to you, you wouldn’t be happy to see him reach high office. However, if the rule of law means anything, it means you can’t come out decades later with an accusation with no witnesses and no evidence, outside a court of law, and expect that your say-so is sufficient to halt someone’s career. Trying an allegation in the court of public opinion is anarchy.
Also, I have no patience for the “boys will be boys” argument, but leaving teenagers unchaperoned and then punishing them decades later for acting without restraint seems a rather dubious cultural practice. And that’s assuming it actually happened (which I am not willing to assume).
😦 Our house is at the point of having to replace so much. Currently, bathtub faucet is shot. Bathroom toilet quit. Kitchen faucet handle is broken. I have a wrench type tool, so can still use it until the handle replacement comes in the mail. Plumbers are scarce. The upside is that my husband has finally decided I may be right that the bathroom needs to be redone. As I have repeatedly pointed out: If we intend to stay in the house, we need to take care of it. Right now the house is good for us. Sometimes, being pushed to do things is good for a person. Also, having room to do things can be good for a person. Oh, for the wisdom to make the best decisions about it all!
😦 Still feeling sore on one side of the ribs. Probably just a soft tissue injury.
😐 Tomorrow I will talk to insurance and repair shop and see what needs to be done next. RCMP never called me back to get my statement or give me a file number. Hmmm. I left a message with them.
This is all new to me, having never had an accident before.
To be clear, I’m not necessarily believing Dr. Ford’s story, but I’m also not quite ready to say I don’t believe it at all. It’s very possible something happened to her, but could have been done by someone else.
Our upstairs bathroom needs a lot of work, some of which could turn out to be expensive, which is why we’re waiting on that. The downstairs bathroom needs a little work, too. But both toilets and the faucets for both sinks have been replaced at some time in the past decade.
Kizzie, we will probably never know. I just find it odd for people to bring this stuff up thirty five years after it allegedly occurred. Nor do I understand how it matters. If he is innocent, he is innocent and life moves forward. If he is guilty, why did she not mention it thirty five years ago? If it was a case of college stupid, there is a lot of that, on all sides. If he is lying about it, I doubt this business will change his testimony. Even with the latest accuser coming forward, it sounds really like a drunken college party. At the UofIdaho, people fall out of windows instead.
But I do not find it as disturbing as Chappaquiddick. And yet that guy was elected elected and reelected.
Well, maybe he should have fallen out of a window or two.
Practically speaking now, with the latest stories emerging, it probably makes sense for Kavanaugh to remove his name from nomination (sooner rather than later) so another conservative jurist can be nominated before the clock simply runs out.
A single questionable incident is just that. But with other incidents now coming out (with peers who were witnesses and who specifically recall the matter) I’m afraid establishing innocence isn’t easy.
But mumsee’s correct, worse has been done by others as adults, though I’d argue that it was Chappaquidick that kept Ted Kennedy out of the White House ultimately. And it is interesting how Hillary Clinton has been so bold as to speak out about (always) believing the woman? I haven’t seen a direct quote to that affect, only something that characterized her comments in recent days as reflecting that position.
What’s interesting in the #metoo environment is that we all live in a broader culture that has, over several decades now, become crass and sexually unrestrained. Now the call for primness comes from some of those who were part of that ‘liberation.’ We seem to have very conflicted ideas about all of this now.
One also realizes the impact of sin on all of us. College idiocy left behind should be weighed as such. College idiocy repeated too often or with sufficient creepiness witnessed by too many people probably can’t be dismissed in this environment, no matter how the person has turned out as a responsible adult.
It is actually very common for victims of sexual assault to keep it to themselves. Then, if their abuser hits the news years later, they may or may not come forward. Until this #MeToo movement, women were very reluctant to go against a man with power or celebrity (its own kind of power).
I saw something on Facebook that pointed out that we believe the victims of abuse by Catholic priests who come forward decades after the abuse, but often question why women would wait so long to accuse public figures.
To me, the timing makes it seem rather unlikely. I have known too many women and girls who were free with accusations that made no sense as the practicality of what they said was not possible. And their stories change, a lot and completely. I am sure there are men who do evil things and men who do stupid things I think when we have come to a time when a man can be labeled a sexual predator for urinating on the street, we are collectively crazy.
Wandering Views 
I heard an interesting take on the Ford/Kavanagh thing on FoxNews last night.
A woman is the only one to think of this. She said:
“It s surprising that no other women have come out to support Ford. If something happened, she told her friends. Girls talk to their friends. Somebody else has heard of this.”
That is true. Men don’t talk about such things, unless they are bragging. But I have noticed that women talk to each other. They will keep secrets. It’s a girl thing.
If it happened, some other women know.
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That was supposed to be on the “Politics” thread.
Sorry
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🙂 Adorable #6 arrived safely!
🙂 😦 Emotional see-saw over Poppy
🙂 A “free” weekend at home that will be filled with its own celebration now!
🙂 I love fall
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The first time we have given permission to son to do something (homecoming dance) and he did not come home afterward. Poor decision making continues. On our part or his?
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It’s interesting he asked, then broke the rules. I don’t know what I would be doing.
OTOH, he’s 17, knew the rules and stayed out anyway. Do you have any leverage at this point?
(Novelist asking. Godly mother would be praying for wisdom . . . As I’m sure you two are and my husband would be. Sigh. It’s so hard for me to set aside the sin of manipulation!)
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Chas – That’s not necessarily true. Many girls and women keep those things to themselves, out of a misplaced feeling of shame or fear.
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Michelle, we can and are considering, withdrawing him from school.
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Along with what Kizzie said and playing devil’s advocate (as I remain somewhat skeptical of the Ford story personally), but she also may have felt she was partly at fault for allowing herself to be in such a situation in which she became so vulnerable. Maybe she was just grateful to have escaped with as limited an incident as she did.
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Did you see the pages taken from their yearbooks–which had been conveniently removed from social media before she went “live?” High school for some, apparently, was nothing more than a drunken brawl.
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Which is where son is, though apparently without the alcohol, though that might have changed last night.
What we need to weigh is the benefit of school (at least he goes even though he just plays on the internet all day) against the hurt of school (where he is just wasting his time and theirs). We don’t want this to be about how he is treating us, but the attitude behind it. Can we in any way, help him get past this? We mostly don’t think so, but still have a little ray of hope. And the inconvenience of me missing out on nights of sleep, wondering if he is home yet or not. Which is part of take every thought captive. I did use the time to pray for your new baby, and Kare, and others on here.
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If Kavannaugh is guilty, there’s the added problem of his lying about it, which also is a big deal.
If it happened, though, it also raises the question of what was going on before the incident by way of banter or other interactions among those involved.
Teens can be stupid, which is no surprise to anyone.
But I still retain my skepticism about the allegations in this case.
Unfortunately, there’s really no sure-fire way to absolutely prove or disprove it, especially after so many years and having happened, allegedly, in the pre-social media/cell phone photos dark ages.
Everyone’s mind is mostly made up to believe one side or the other by now, the lines have been drawn. All that’s left is the actual public blood letting.
LikeLiked by 1 person
Another problem is in this era it is considered almost the worst of betrayals not to “believe” the person who makes a claim of impropriety against a man (even if you don’t know the woman and have no idea of her integrity or lack of it, and even if you do know the man is a man of honor). Of course he did it!
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I keep coming back to, “I believe in the rule of law.”
I’m sorry so many spent their teen years in a bacchanalian orgy and regret what happened.
But do the rest of us have to pay the price for those foolish choices?
OTOH, it’s weaning me off social media. I can’t bear to read these stories–no matter which side–it all feels so very dirty, unappealing and unappetizing.
And all the other people dragged into it, particularly the kids.
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Or it could be that they were all intoxicated and doing the typical wrestling that goes on in such places and he does not remember it as a stand out moment. But it does not sound like that is what he was doing. Though it does sound like what she was doing.
We have gone through the accusations, it is not a fun time. Praying for him and family and the accuser. May the Truth be found.
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Yes, girls can be silent about this type of thing. I, personally, know a woman who was date raped in college and never said a word until years later in therapy, for example.
However, it is difficult to believe, that even after all these years something so traumatizing according to the victim, would not be remembered with quite a bit of detail. I am very skeptical about recovered memories as a whole. They have been notorious for being false.
None of us know the truth, but the whole timing and way it was handled is terribly suspicious.
🙂 Congratulations, Michelle.
😦 My sympathy, Kare.
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Wait, is she claiming a recovered memory? I’ve done enough reading on that (and have known people who claimed it) to be extremely skeptical.
May wisdom prevail!
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Mumsee – What did you mean by this in your 3:45 comment – “Though it does sound like what she was doing.” Do you mean it sounds like she was interested in the “wrestling” you mention?
From what I have read of her story, she was shoved into the room, she didn’t go willingly.
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I’ve heard that she had “recovered memories” in couples counseling, too, but I also have read other things that indicated she remembered all along.
This WP article says (referring to her time of dating the man who became her husband), “As their relationship deepened, Ford told him she’d been physically abused years earlier. He would learn the specifics of the event, including Kavanaugh’s name, during a couple’s therapy session years later. But then, he just listened.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/christine-blasey-ford-wanted-to-flee-the-us-to-avoid-brett-kavanaugh-now-she-may-testify-against-him/2018/09/22/db942340-bdb1-11e8-8792-78719177250f_story.html?utm_term=.4fb93158389f
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I mean I have seen a lot of horseplay amongst young people. And sometimes it is rather x rated.
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I can understand that if someone did that to you, you wouldn’t be happy to see him reach high office. However, if the rule of law means anything, it means you can’t come out decades later with an accusation with no witnesses and no evidence, outside a court of law, and expect that your say-so is sufficient to halt someone’s career. Trying an allegation in the court of public opinion is anarchy.
Also, I have no patience for the “boys will be boys” argument, but leaving teenagers unchaperoned and then punishing them decades later for acting without restraint seems a rather dubious cultural practice. And that’s assuming it actually happened (which I am not willing to assume).
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Well said, Cheryl
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And this:
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/09/report-yet-another-witness-fails-to-back-ford.php
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😦 Our house is at the point of having to replace so much. Currently, bathtub faucet is shot. Bathroom toilet quit. Kitchen faucet handle is broken. I have a wrench type tool, so can still use it until the handle replacement comes in the mail. Plumbers are scarce. The upside is that my husband has finally decided I may be right that the bathroom needs to be redone. As I have repeatedly pointed out: If we intend to stay in the house, we need to take care of it. Right now the house is good for us. Sometimes, being pushed to do things is good for a person. Also, having room to do things can be good for a person. Oh, for the wisdom to make the best decisions about it all!
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Son rolled in at about 10:35 last night. Now. What to do. I will ignore it for now but we will come up with a plan.
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Oh, a bathroom to be redone. …
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Step back, DJ, they will get it done in their own time…
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😦 No church yet again for me
😦 Wrecked car
🙂 I’m okay
😦 Still feeling sore on one side of the ribs. Probably just a soft tissue injury.
😐 Tomorrow I will talk to insurance and repair shop and see what needs to be done next. RCMP never called me back to get my statement or give me a file number. Hmmm. I left a message with them.
This is all new to me, having never had an accident before.
😦 Our kitchen may be on hold yet again. Sigh.
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😦 Kare
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To be clear, I’m not necessarily believing Dr. Ford’s story, but I’m also not quite ready to say I don’t believe it at all. It’s very possible something happened to her, but could have been done by someone else.
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Our upstairs bathroom needs a lot of work, some of which could turn out to be expensive, which is why we’re waiting on that. The downstairs bathroom needs a little work, too. But both toilets and the faucets for both sinks have been replaced at some time in the past decade.
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Kizzie, we will probably never know. I just find it odd for people to bring this stuff up thirty five years after it allegedly occurred. Nor do I understand how it matters. If he is innocent, he is innocent and life moves forward. If he is guilty, why did she not mention it thirty five years ago? If it was a case of college stupid, there is a lot of that, on all sides. If he is lying about it, I doubt this business will change his testimony. Even with the latest accuser coming forward, it sounds really like a drunken college party. At the UofIdaho, people fall out of windows instead.
But I do not find it as disturbing as Chappaquiddick. And yet that guy was elected elected and reelected.
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Well, maybe he should have fallen out of a window or two.
Practically speaking now, with the latest stories emerging, it probably makes sense for Kavanaugh to remove his name from nomination (sooner rather than later) so another conservative jurist can be nominated before the clock simply runs out.
A single questionable incident is just that. But with other incidents now coming out (with peers who were witnesses and who specifically recall the matter) I’m afraid establishing innocence isn’t easy.
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But mumsee’s correct, worse has been done by others as adults, though I’d argue that it was Chappaquidick that kept Ted Kennedy out of the White House ultimately. And it is interesting how Hillary Clinton has been so bold as to speak out about (always) believing the woman? I haven’t seen a direct quote to that affect, only something that characterized her comments in recent days as reflecting that position.
What’s interesting in the #metoo environment is that we all live in a broader culture that has, over several decades now, become crass and sexually unrestrained. Now the call for primness comes from some of those who were part of that ‘liberation.’ We seem to have very conflicted ideas about all of this now.
One also realizes the impact of sin on all of us. College idiocy left behind should be weighed as such. College idiocy repeated too often or with sufficient creepiness witnessed by too many people probably can’t be dismissed in this environment, no matter how the person has turned out as a responsible adult.
LikeLiked by 1 person
It is actually very common for victims of sexual assault to keep it to themselves. Then, if their abuser hits the news years later, they may or may not come forward. Until this #MeToo movement, women were very reluctant to go against a man with power or celebrity (its own kind of power).
I saw something on Facebook that pointed out that we believe the victims of abuse by Catholic priests who come forward decades after the abuse, but often question why women would wait so long to accuse public figures.
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To me, the timing makes it seem rather unlikely. I have known too many women and girls who were free with accusations that made no sense as the practicality of what they said was not possible. And their stories change, a lot and completely. I am sure there are men who do evil things and men who do stupid things I think when we have come to a time when a man can be labeled a sexual predator for urinating on the street, we are collectively crazy.
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That we are
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