41 thoughts on “Our Daily Thread 8-9-17”

  2. I was wondering what Mumsee said “was not nice”. I suspected it was the song so I clicked on it. I saw that it was overf 6 minutes long and clicked out.

    I may never know.

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  3. QOD
    Last night we finally watched the Henrietta Lacks movie about the HELA cells. Cells that were taken from Mrs. Lacks at Johns Hopkins in the early 1950’s when she was undergoing cancer treatment. The cells have been used in medical research since then. Johns Hopkins sold them to other research facilities.
    Here is what I am wresting with. Yes, minority communities have long been taken advantage of when it came to medical research, advances, and studies. Right here in Alabama we took advantage of Tuskegee students for a syphilis experiment. Yes the Lacks family suffered in the aftermath of their mother’s death. Nothing changed for them by the cells being used. She was still dead.
    My father died from cancer. If his cells could lead to medical advances, why should I be paid for them? No amount of money would bring him back. If I were to die of some disease and my cells could help someone else, why should BG be given money. Yes, I know that Henrietta’s cells were used without her permission, but doctors and nurses take biological matter from us all of the time.
    I don’t know where I stand on this. Once again, I see both sides.
    Have you seen the movie? What are your thoughts?

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  4. Kim, I read the book and had the exact same thoughts. My pancreas injury (in a car accident) apparently resulted in a notable surgery (at Hopkins, coincidentally) and months later the surgeon told me he was using the video from it in one of the classes he teaches. He didn’t ask my permission and it didn’t bother me one bit.

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  5. Good morning. It has been flash flooding in this area I saw one weather report about the gloomy skies over Atlanta. Art said he feels like an old character in the Little Abner comic strip that always had a black cloud over him.

    I have not read the book or seen that movie, Kim. I guess I would have mixed feelings, especially since some people may have opportunity to be paid for some types of bodily donations, maybe like blood, women’s eggs or perhaps sperm (for designer babies). It does not seem right for a hospital or other medical facility to have financial benefits beyond what would cover their costs of maintaining the fluids/parts for later use. But their costs could be considerable when considering doctor’s and lab worker’s salaries along with any specialized equipment required for storage. It is a lot to contemplate. But who could put a proper price on the bodily substance? It was given to each person freely.

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  8. Kim, the four founding principles of healthcare are Non-maleficence (“First, do no harm”), Beneficence (do good), Justice (do right), and Autonomy (of the patient, not the practitioner). That last one not only calls for the patient to have final say in accepting or refusing treatment, it also means that the patient’s consent must be given before their tissue is used for research or their picture taken and shared in an educational setting. In the recent revelations about the tissue sales from aborted babies done by Planned Parenthood, one legal violation they were accused of was not getting proper consent from the women who had the abortions to sell the tissues. The medical research field is still something of the Wild West. The use of frozen embryos and aborted fetuses in research is rightly disturbing, and that is precisely why the medical research field should be held accountable when they fail to get consent for using someone’s tissues. Taking Henrietta Lack’s cells without permission is part of the same the cavalier attitude towards ethical practice as accepting tissue from aborted fetuses. Either you treat all humans with respect and dignity or you will treat none, as shown by the medical experiments carried out on these conjoined twins: http://www.macleans.ca/culture/books/the-torture-and-sadness-of-russias-most-famous-conjoined-twins/

    That raises another ethical question about how we all benefit from those unethical research practices, because we do. Medical treatments have been developed from the cells of aborted babies, and I often wonder uneasily, when I’m reading about the cellular changes during each stage of fetal development, just how researchers found out about those changes, since the fetus is inaccessible to such detailed study in the womb. The innovations of operating on spina bifida cases in the womb required such detailed knowledge of fetal development. That picture of the tiny baby’s hand clinging to a surgeon’s gloved hand during such an operation, which was used in pro-life literature, was probably made possible from the study of aborted fetuses. The surgeon doing the surgery may not himself have studied such fetuses, but he would have read the studies of those who did. The ethical dilemma reminds me of the similar ethical dilemma of living in a country which was unjustly wrested from those who held it before – I have talked about how Canada treated the First Nations – and realizing while we cannot go back and undo the past, we can go forward and try to ensure justice is done in the future. For that reason, Henrietta Lacks’ children demanding compensation for the unethical behaviour of medical researchers is a step in the right direction.

    Medical research is an important field, and its work has helped many lives to be saved. They may rightly argue that they have nothing to do with the decision to abort fetuses – that they are simply using the tissue that is available to them. Nevertheless, some medical research, such as that surrounding the creation of embryos, is very disturbing in its lack of ethics. The world of medical research is not above the laws governing other people. They should not be allowed to do whatever they can think of doing. Some researchers will be driven by greed and do what the highest bidder asks them to do; other will be driven by pride, to see how far they can go – and the results could be disastrous. Members of the general public are right to request that they be held accountable in their research methods.

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  10. I would come down at least on the side of patient consent being the ethical thing to do. I have seen “most” of the movie — as I recall I missed the first 30-40 minutes or so — but it has been a while ago. I always wanted to see the beginning as I felt like I kind of came in half way through and there were some important aspects of the plot I’d probably missed. There seemed to be a genuine racial component in how the case may have been treated as well? Again, I missed the first part of the story so never had a clear sense of the entire case.

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  12. Art and I watched The Hunger Games: Mockingjay 1. Now that I think on it, the movies/books are all about a person’s body being used against consent by the government to supposedly benefit the masses.

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  15. Although I don’t think it would bother me if some of my cells were used for research, I agree with Roscuro that consent should be required.

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  16. I haven’t read the book or seen the movie. I have heard lots about it, since my sister uses the story constantly to argue against the pro-life position. I have been so turned off by this, that I have a hard time wanting to read the book or see the movie.

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  18. Speaking of making accusations against pro-lifers: YF recently posted on Facebook that if pro-lifers were really pro-life we would be, among other demands, adopting foster children.

    I pointed out to her that many Christian pro-lifers do in fact adopt foster children, non-white & disabled included, & that there is even an adoption “movement” among Christian pro-lifers.

    Realizing I was right, but not wanting to admit it, she merely deleted her post.

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  20. Well, Kizzie, she uses the bible to prove her pro-choice position, too. Fortunately, I had read it for years and knew better. I had heard others use it that way, too. My pastor BIL, for instance, and my former church. When you are blind, you are blind.

    Specifically, something about the cells containing all of human DNA and therefore being as human as a living being. She also says actual fetuses are not human and DNA determines transgenderism etc.

    None of it is rational or scientific, but she is also not like ‘we who hate science’ It is just such a jumbled up mess and not worth discussing unless you want to go around in circles for days and hear yourself called all kinds of names. Oh–and she is also the only tolerant one around. I would lol, if it weren’t so sad. I suspect many of you know someone like her–or more than one.

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  22. In other news, I got my tickets yesterday to go visit Chas on Saturday, September 2nd. Another blog meet up! Just have to meet someone who wishes me sweet dreams when I am in a land faraway.

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  24. I thought the same thing, Kim. 🙂

    I get to have lunch with her in two weeks–if my current situation gets resolved.

    I gave away my car and then discovered I’ve apparently chosen the most popular color on the most popular car in America, therefore there are none for sale until mid to late September.

    Right now I’m juggling car salesmen up to 100 miles away trying to find the car I want, at this point giving up on white and “settling” for silver or metallic gray.

    Or renting a car after August 31 until I can buy one. Craziness.

    In other news, I did get a new phone on Saturday and now my computer is dying. My husband is suggesting a new one of those babies, too.

    I’m afraid to get too close to the dishwasher . . . .

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  25. That sounds like the frustration I am feeling, Michelle, as I figure out things here. What is the most popular car??
    Maybe I could fine one here and drive it to you? Oh, you would have to drive me home!

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  27. It stopped raining for a bit so I went to Public to get a card and balloon for one of the ladies in my group. They had no balloons for adults. So reluctantly I got a tiny bouquet of flowers for 9.99. I did not want flowers since she has lung issues. But it is what I took to the rehab facility. I had been told that she does therapy in the mornings and has afternoons free so I did not call. Well, she was gone into town for a doctor’s appointment. I know she will be disappointed that she missed my visit, so those flowers seemed extra important under the circumstances.

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  28. JO, I came here to post my e-mail address, but there may be another way.
    We need to find a way to exchange phone numbers so that we can coordinate the meeting. i.e. I don’t know what time I need to get there. and wherever “there” might be.
    I’ve been stood up before by women who said she would be at………… at (time).

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  30. Michelle – Yup, silver & grey cars are quite popular. My husband hates them. As you know, he drives for a living, & he says they are sometimes hard to see, especially in shade. I guess they kind of blend in to surroundings somewhat.

    I wouldn’t want to drive a car that is hard to see.

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  31. I bought Napa cabbage yesterday. I have never cooked any, but hope to do a stir fry using some left over top sirloin from dinner last night. Do I need to discard the outer leaves like I do on a regular head of cabbage? This is a time sensitive question I should have asked before now 😃

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  32. Speaking of Napa, as Janice just did. . .DJ &/or Michelle, is the Napa area more conservative than southern California?

    The reason I ask is that I’ve been watching some Facebook posts by my cousin’s wife (they live in Napa), & comments from her & her friends, about the controversy over Napa High School. NHS’s team name has been the Indians, & their “mascot” was an Indian head. But the administration has decided to drop the Indian from their signs & such.

    What has surprised me is that a lot of the parents & students (including my cousin’s family) are upset about that, wanting it to remain the way it’s been.

    Btw, Cousin & Wife own a pizza shop in St. Helena, called That Pizza Place, & I hear their pizza is really good. Cousin’s Wife shared a great review they got from a local magazine.

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  33. That microchip feeder is interesting. For now I’m having to rely on remembering to put away her food into baggies in the refrigerator — she eats in spurts, she’ll graze for like a minute, then be done, then she’ll be back in 5-15-30 minutes and want to graze again for a minute or two.

    My cousin wound up with silver which she wasn’t fond of, unfortunately. I’ve never cared for the metallic colored cars for some reason. I’ve had baby blue, tan (both VW bugs), charcoal, white and now dark blue (the Jeep).

    Chas, if you’re both on FB you can private message each other that way.

    I posted this video 5 years ago, a release of rehabbed pelicans on our local beach.

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  34. In the video (taken by me on my phone), that’s the LA Times photographer lying down in the background when they first are let out of their crates and our photographer crouched close to the water as they are taking off in his direction.

    Always love covering those releases, whether sea lions or seabirds.

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  35. Finally! I am in Baton Rouge. It was a rough ride. There was a bad accident somewhere ahead of me. Thankful not to be in it.
    I am tired. I settled for chain food and as soon as I eat I am going to my room.

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  37. I’ve had one silver car, one red car (my most sluggish vehicle, so definitely no speeding tickets), and two white cars. White would generally be my preferred color, but if emerald green is available, that would be my choice.

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  38. Re the subject of our bodies being used for medical purposes (more or less): When my husband and I were courting, I needed some small dental thing done, and since I didn’t have a dentist in Nashville it made sense to go ahead and go to the one who would be my dentist after I married and moved. My then-fiance and I got appointments at the same time, and she put us in a room divided by a low wall, with technicians working on both of us at the same time, and us able to hear but not see each other. (We told our engagement story and showed off the ring with both of us joining in. The dentist called over the wall to him at one point, “You got her a rock? You didn’t tell me you got her a rock!”) We’ve joked ever since about our “dental date,” but we go on a new one generally once a year (I go in annually, though he goes in twice a year). It turns out his parents have done their own annual dental dates to the same dentist, so sometimes the dentist will tell us, “Your parents were in here last week.”

    One day my husband needed an implant, and the dentist was listing the options. She brought out a cast of a jaw to show exactly how one of the options worked, and while we were looking at it, she said to my husband, “That’s your dad’s upper jaw, by the way.” Something hadn’t worked with the mold and they had needed to do a second one, so she kept the first one as a sample. But how weird to be told the jaw you are holding is your father’s! (His father was still alive at that point.)

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  39. I’d like a forest green car if I ever get another one, but since I’ll probably have to go used again I may not get a choice — the Jeep was used, as were my 2 VW bugs, and I lucked out in getting colors I liked.

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  40. Yeah, I’ve never had a new car. My husband’s Prius was new–he did the math and realized it made financial sense to take life insurance proceeds and pay off the mortgage and buy a car that would last him for many years, and the newest model of the Prius was the cheapest car per gallon he could buy, assuming he drove it for 15 years or so. He was going to get boring gray and the girls told him no, so we have a pretty blue. (Blue isn’t my favorite color–I find it used far too commonly to be interesting–but I’ll admit it’s a pretty color of blue, and it’s the car that drove down to Nashville every three weeks in 2011, so I have a soft place in my heart for it, though I still don’t like to drive it.)

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  41. Have not quite caught up on the happenings around here but we are home! Spent three days in St. Elmo at friend’s B&B….I read a lot in peace and quiet…and enjoyed a couple of lovely hikes. Got home in time for the neighborhood ladies gathering tonight and now I am bushed!
    Paul and I are hoping it all works out to have that meet up with Peter and Mrs L! Good night all…it is lightening,thundering and raining buckets outside…good sleeping weather!

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