Trump knew he was being heard. He took off the mic at the end and gave it to someone.
He didn’t think he was doing something wrong.
You hear that in a barracks. all the time.
A guy in the barracks at Westover always had tales like that. He said, “I’ll tell you guys, it’s tough being big and good looking.” He was half kidding.
Trump just doesn’t have good judgment.
But I will not vote for Hillary.
Chas, I think it goes beyond good judgment. Trump is just Bill Clinton with a New York accent. He is a sexual predator. That is as low as it gets. Any Republican in Congress who is afraid of the amoral and moronic Trumpkins in his district and won’t call upon Trump to withdraw is worthless.
I can’t imagine Trump withdrawing. But if he did, what would happen? Are such contingencies even in writing anywhere? (They should be, of course, but who can even imagine such a thing, especially the last month before an election when the ballots are ready?)
Chas, I’ve never been in a men’s locker room or any military place. Thing is twofold: (1) a lot of guys who talk that way aren’t actually acting it out; (2) the guys who do talk that way, and do act on it, are cads; and (3) locker rooms and the like are usually for the young and the foolish.
I am sure that as he said, Bill Clinton said the same and worse–but what kind of standard is that? Hillary, of course, was being disingenuous with the fake outrage in her tweet. She knows her husband is exactly the same type, and she gave him a pass and supported him in his campaigns. She’s being a politician. Nonetheless, Trump does seem to have caught up with himself and will probably actually crash and burn, as was predicted when he was just one of the 17.
Cheryl is correct on #1 & 2. It isn’t just locker rooms. It’s barracks, etc. I understand it goes on at worksites where all men are working. I never encountered that, so I don’t know.
i.e. I’ve never worked at a place without women, except in th AF.
Hillary being shocked is amusing, considering. Don’t you know she’s loving this.
Trump would have to resign before he could be replaced by the party and the timing is just too short, I’m afraid. As Cheryl mentioned, ballots are printed and early voting is soon starting (or maybe already has?).
Billy Bush (so who’d ever heard of hm before this?) issued a quick and what I thought was a contrite apology, he immediately took down his twitter page and he sounded sincere, I thought. He was young and was “going along” with a big, famous sidekick for a couple hours. Hahaha, laugh along, get along, part of the job, it’s just show biz.
Trump? He was, what, about 60 at the time of the recording? And newly married. His “apology” struck me as going through the motions, no one believes it was an isolated moment caught on tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re sorry. Whatever. Too little, too late.
And, yes, he and Bill Clinton are no doubt two jerks who probably have a grand time together.
No one’s shocked. Still, the recording is horrific, each time I heard or read it in news accounts yesterday, bleeped and non-bleeped alike, I just felt sick and more than a little irritated. What a jerk.
It’s been suggested that married women, for the first time in a while, may swing Democrat in this election as a result.
It’ll be President Clinton, I’m afraid.
And the Republican party is in even worse shambles now that before. I can only imagine the panic and back room talks going on this weekend about what to do now.
I feel for Mike Pence. And Ben Carson. No doubt they went into this with eyes open, realizing who Trump was, but being dragged by association into this public humiliation has got to be making them sick at heart right now.
And yes, our newsroom seemed rather quietly gleeful over it yesterday; thankfully I has deep into writing a story about our local ghosts and haunted landmarks for Halloween. And there was a big Dodger game on so the news channel wasn’t on in the newsroom.
Just hearing (in general) about the hot mic recording of Trump earlier, I didn’t think it would amount to anything, especially since he always survives this stuff. I didn’t actually see or hear what was said on the recording until I filed my story and was almost ready to go home — I was stunned.
He’s gone and done it now, I thought, no coming back from this — especially so close to election day.
… The video that prompted the apology did not simply reflect Trump’s vulgarity. It betrayed indefensible behavior in his own immortal words. …
… He is saying the Clintons have said and done worse than he has said and done. He is saying that they have more for which to apologize than he does. It wasn’t a persuasive argument when we made it to our parents or we heard it from our kids and it’s not impressive from a candidate for the presidency of the United States. …
… does Trump think he can defend himself by arguing that she is worse than he is? …
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And granted, the timing of this release is, um, curious. I kept wondering how this hadn’t surfaced before now.
I guess it’s October Surprise season. But I suspect someone’s been sitting on this one … More to come? Probably. It has completely overshadowed the “news” that is coming out on Clinton.
Sheesh, I wish we could all just halt the entire process for now and start over again.
Trump Campaign Reels as Some Donors Explore Replacing Him
Key Republican donors have begun looking into whether it’s possible to replace Donald Trump as the party’s presidential nominee after his campaign was jarred Friday by a video showing him speaking about groping women and making other crude, sexually aggressive comments. …
… Spencer Zwick, a top Republican fundraiser, said donors are backing away from Trump. “Major GOP donors are pulling support from Donald Trump and are now looking to fund an effort to back someone else as the Republican nominee,” Zwick said.
Republican Congressman Jason Chaffetz of Utah announced he could no longer endorse Trump, saying he wished his running mate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence, was on the top of the ticket. “I think we should all stand up and say we’re not going to tolerate this,” Chaffetz, who heads the House Oversight Committee, said on CNN. …
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Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump said in an interview Saturday that he would not drop out of the race under any circumstances, following calls from several in his party to do so.
“I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” Trump told The Washington Post in a phone call from his home in Trump Tower in New York. “No, I’m not quitting this race. I have tremendous support.”
“People are calling and saying, ‘Don’t even think about doing anything else but running,” Trump said when asked about GOP defections. “You have to see what’s going on. The real story is that people have no idea the support. I don’t know how that’s going to boil down but people have no idea the support.
“Running against her,” Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, makes keeping the party behind him easier, Trump added. …
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Guess what “issue” will dominate the debate tomorrow and virtually the rest of this campaign?
More than 34,000 Republican voters have already cast their ballots for the 2016 general election according to the U.S. Election Project, 8,000 of them in the battleground state of North Carolina and another 5,000 in Florida. Not all of those ballots were cast for Donald Trump, it’s safe to assume, but it’s more than likely that most of them were.
And that, in a nutshell, is why it’s far too late for the Republican Party to dump Donald Trump from their ticket.
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Donald Trump does not represent me or my party. I understand the responsibility of Republicans to support their nominee. Our nominee has weighty responsibilities as well. Donald Trump has manifestly failed in these responsibilities.
I have traveled the country for years warning Americans that Hillary Clinton is unfit to be President.
We must have a conservative in the White House to restore accountability, opportunity and security. For the sake of our Constitution and the rule of law, we must defeat Hillary Clinton.
Today I ask Donald Trump to step aside and for the RNC to replace him with Gov. Mike Pence.
On Friday’s edition of Real Time James Carville told HBO host Bill Maher he thinks Donald Trump will drop out of the presidential race. Fellow guest Mark Cuban was in agreement. Video of an interview Trump did 10 years ago where he used lewd language surfaced prior to the show. From Real Time:
BILL MAHER: Donald Trump was supposed to have a rally tomorrow with Paul Ryan and now he has been disinvited — this just happened before we went — and it’s going to be Mike Pence and Paul Ryan. Wow. When the top of the ticket is disinvited to his own rally?
MARK CUBAN: He’s finally toxic. Donald Trump is finally toxic.
JAMES CARVILLE: Mark and I got in a discussion before the show. I think he’s going to quit. Really, right now, I’m saying right here. …
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I’m shocked that anyone is shocked by this tape. Its just simply part of a pattern of how he views women — marital rape, groping, name calling, objectifying, etc. This is nothing new. Any Republican politician who now calls for him to quit has been deluding himself for a year.
And this isn’t equivalent to locker/barrack banter. Working in construction and restaurants I’ve heard a lot of banter, etc., however, the difference is the older and more managerial people at work would put the young braggart in his place. Here we have a 60 year old just recently married man being the braggart and a young man who is just going along. Trump’s behaviour is more like the behaviour of rich and/or powerful old men who think they are above the law.
And I don’t think Trump’s behaviour is equivalent to Bill Clinton’s. For one, the contest is between Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton; their spouses shouldn’t be in the equation —- we’re not talking about Melania’s modelling career. Bill’s behaviour isn’t unusual for a powerful politician but he’s been fairly circumspect in retirement — he’s not groping beauty queens nor demeaning women who don’t match his standards.
However, I don’t think it will matter. As Trump said, he could shoot someone in broad daylight and people will still vote for him. The people who vote for him should already know about his immoral behaviour and it hasn’t made a difference so far. I didn’t think he would win and I still don’t think he will win but he will match McCain and Romney. And that is indicative of the dislike for Hilary Clinton and the sad state of American politics.
Initially I felt sorry for Pence but contemplating it further I don’t have any sympathy. Pence joined the ticket voluntary with full knowledge of who Trump is (I’d like to think he did some homework). During the VP debate, he won by simply inventing a Trump who doesn’t exist — he had a 35% truth rating for that debate. He either deluded himself or couldn’t resist the chance to become VP — something more experienced and wiser Republicans turned down — i.e. Kaisch.
A tweet making the rounds of leftist sites seems to sum it up — Trump is the “face” of the rapist and Pence is the “face” of the judge who lets him off.
That being said, the Republicans won’t drop Trump. It’s too late to change the ballot in most states and they know that Trump represents a large faction of the Republican party. He will be as successful as any other Republican candidate at this point in the race.
Politifact fact checked 13 statements made by Pence during the debate and only 4 were true or mostly true for a 31% accuracy rate. They fact checked 19 of Kaine’s statements and 15 were true or mostly true for a 79% accuracy rate. They kept a running blog during the debate. Other sites did the math.
Even prior to the debate Kaine had a better record than Pence for telling the truth — about 75% to 60%.
“Bill’s behaviour isn’t unusual for a powerful politician…” Why didn’t Bill Clinton’s “lewd” behavior matter when he ran for president? Why is Bill Clinton still revered by his supporters? Were his actions simply a case of Boys will be Boys? Are only Democrat men allowed to say and do things that are demeaning to women? Has Bill Clinton ever apologized for his misconduct with women? Has his wife ever apologized for what she called his accusers? Yet another case of double standards?
Several days ago, I asked former WMB regular Kyle his views on Gary Johnson’s abortion views, & mentioned that many Christians have a stance of refusing to vote for anyone not fully pro-life. His response, for your consideration. . .
“It is extremely difficult for me to back a candidate who is not against abortion. I don’t do it lightly by any means.
My first thought is that anyone who feels that way should vote for Darrel Castle. He is the only candidate running who is dependably and consistently pro-life. I do not understand people who insist that they can only vote for a pro-life candidate but that Trump is their choice.
I do not trust Trump’s “change of heart” because it is almost certainly a political maneuver and not a heartfelt conviction. I absolutely don’t want to vote for a person who pretends to be pro-life just to trick people like me into voting for him.
I also don’t believe that Trump cares enough to do anything about abortion once elected, and as we have seen, the president can do very little about it in the first place.
The Republican Party has USED pro-life people to get elected but have done nothing to stop it, even when they had majorities in the Congress and a president in the White House. I gave up on the Republican Party years ago for that reason. I refuse to be used by them anymore for a dirty political strategy. Since Trump is the Republican nominee, I would not support him even if he were more definitely pro-life.
I wish that Johnson were pro-life. I wish that the Libertarian Party would at least be neutral on the matter. Many pro-life people are members of the Libertarian Party but not enough yet to change the platform.
What is different about Johnson is that his view would (if he could make it happen) turn abortion back to the states, and at that level there is a chance that abortion could be ended or at least more restricted.
I have also found myself turning away from the political strategy toward a more people-centered strategy. We need to win people to Christ and then teach them about the sanctity of life. We Christians have lost the culture war, so now we need to probably focus on evangelism rather than winning elections.”
Have we REALLY lost the Culture War? By winning, the other side is destroying our country’s morals. People realize this and don’t really approve of the destruction. To win the Culture War, we can show people how to regain that same culture, by becoming a Christian. Are we up to it? We are Called…
OK, so that’s how Kyle gets past the pro-abortion part, at least in his mind, but it’s a pretty lame attempt.
Now how does he get past the fact that GJ’s proven on multiple occasions to have no grasp of world affairs, and well, seems like he’s a bit of a dolt, or possibly just stoned?
Kyle: Let’s see. I could vote for an ignorant stoned dolt or I could vote for a liberal, amoral, ignorant, infantile demagogue who is also a vindictive megalomaniac and a sexual predator. Give me the stoned dolt please.
Ben Carson says other Trump bombshells will follow. He and Huckabee are looking pretty foolish right now. If they can quietly persuade Trump to withdraw within a couple of days, they will have partially offset their earlier foolishness.
Im calling on Trump to step aside for Gov. Pence. Trump can’t lead on critical issue of ending dom violence & sexual assault. Full statement pic.twitter.com/e47h6MAdmH
AJ – Excuse me if this sounds sharp, but did you read what Kyle wrote with an open mind? He doesn’t mention it here, but he was very involved in the Republican party many years ago, including being a delegate in Texas, & became very disillusioned. (As a delegate, his vote was ignored or thrown out or something – I forget the details – because it wasn’t for the one the party wanted him to back.) He is one of the most intelligent & principled Christian men I “know”.
His point is that Republicans have not done anything to end abortion, but Johnson actually supports states rights on the issue (the true conservative position). (He also supports various restrictions that states have enacted, that are in danger of being overturned by the federal government.)
Don’t forget that Trump has said that he thinks Planned Parenthood does good work, & hasn’t been pro-life very long.
As for Johnson, he was a successful two-term Republican governor in a normally blue state. He’s no dolt. Here are two articles that praise his foreign policy views. . .
“Foreign Policy Magazine Sees Through the Gaffes to Gary Johnson’s Smart, Popular Foreign Policy Vision”
I am pleased to see the growing list of Republicans calling on Trump to drop out. He seems to want to hold on to the nomination like a Third World despot hangs on to power. If he shows up for the debate on Sunday, that is going to be some circus.
I don’t buy the Clinton-Trump equivalency. First and foremost, Trump is running against Hilary Clinton not Bill Clinton. Bill’s past behaviour should not be an issue. Melania’s behaviour isn’t an issue nor should Bill’s be.
And in terms of lewdness and depravity, Clinton isn’t in the same league as Trump. Trump liked to brag about wandering backstage at his pageants looking at 18-20 year old women changing, made lewd remarks about his own daughter, has been accused of rape and sexual assault by former business partners and models, including one who is underage, he once commented that 35 year olds are check out time and then demonstrated it by dumping his older wives for a newer model, and the list goes on. Clinton’s behaviour is closer to that of FDR, Eisenhower, JFK and probably Reagan then Trump.
The Trump campaign is bleeding profusely from the wound of his Access Hollywood video. Carly Fiorina and John McCain are among the prominent Republicans who have withdrawn their support. …
… The most realistic assessment I’ve seen of the situation comes, I’m sad to say, from Chris Cillizza of the Washington Post. His article is called “Republicans made their bed with Donald Trump. Now they have to lie in it.”
That’s probably true as a general matter. But Cillizza’s piece would more accurately be titled “it’s every Republican for himself.” As his Republican sources suggest, GOP candidates will have to decide whether their current electoral interests are best served by abandoning Trump, as McCain has done, or staying the course.
But I see no option that doesn’t result in a Hillary Clinton presidency. Thus, it may be that no course is better than letting this horror show play out, learning the lessons it has to teach us, and then picking up the pieces.
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Gary Johnson has been the victim of poor media handling both from his own camp, by himself and by a willing media. In part, this is the result of a media who likes a two party conflict as it reduces the complexity and simplifies the narrative. He’s actually not the stoned dolt people make him out to be.
The Libertarian party in the US is limited by a paradox in American politics. There is a strong small or minimal government tendency in the US yet the interest groups that embraces this position also embrace the need for gov’t to regulate morality. Hence the weird contradictory position Libertarians are in if they wish to maintain a consistent philosophical platform. The escape clause for Libertarians has also been to pass this authority to lower levels of gov’t. It works philosophically but doesn’t satisfy all concerned.
…. If Trump refuses to step down, serious Republicans and conservatives need either to persuade someone like Mitt Romney to stand as an independent write-in candidate and/or to urge a vote for Evan McMullin; perhaps the two strategies could be combined if McMullin would agree that his electors would vote in the electoral college for Romney. But whatever the mechanism, serious Republicans and conservatives need to make sure there is another choice. And at the same time serious Republicans and conservatives, having written off Donald Trump, need to make the case for a Republican Senate and House in order to check a likely President Clinton.
The removal of Trump, or at least the separation from Trump, offers hope for Republicans and conservatives. But a party and a movement that continues to stand with Trump will fall with Trump. It will have lost the future.
Not sure why there is such rampant speculation about Trump stepping down — his name is on the ballot and will stay on the ballot. Republicans can’t just change the ballots — they will need to go through each state’s electoral board most of whom have rules that would disallow any change at this late juncture. Most of this speculation and endorsement withdrawals is simply Republican politicians avoiding an association with a toxic brand in order to save their own careers.
Dj — Clinton is corrupt to be sure but again she isn’t in the same league as Trump. Her and Bill definitely have benefited from their associations with rich and powerful people throughout the world but there has yet to be any direct evidence of rampant corruption. Trump, however, has been caught using his charity foundation to enrich himself and was ordered by the IRS to pay a fine. The Clinton Foundation meanwhile has a five star rating from charity watch groups and only 10% of its funds go to administrative costs. Trump donated money to a Florida attorney general who then dropped an investigation into Trump U — now there’s a direct pay for play.
Donna, I have doubts that the nation, as we know it, can survive eight years of Hillary.
We need someone to revoke Obama’s executive orders.
She won’t do that. Trump might.
At this point it is clear that the Republicans’ only chance to win the election is to replace Trump. However, I am not focused on the election. I am not even focused on whether Trump will actually resign. I simply want Republican leaders to do the right thing. When your candidate brags about being a sexual predator and asserts that he is entitled to be a sexual predator because he is famous, the right thing is to repudiate and shun that candidate. Paul Ryan and Wisconsin shunned Trump today. Every hour more Republicans are calling on him to withdraw. That is a form of redemption for Republicans. God is in control of the results. It does make me feel better to see Republicans stand up and do the right thing.
Something to consider regarding Castle – On Facebook, our former regular Tammy wrote in a comment, “My only concern with him is that the Constitution Party is explicitly a Christian party. While I’m a Christian, I’m not sure that I can support a party that wants to govern as an explicitly Christian party in a pluralistic society.”
And now there’s a drip-drip-drip of Trump’s interviews on the Howard Stern show. As someone said a few weeks ago, no one who has gone on that show should ever be nominated to run for president.
Kristen says the only way Trump resigns (maybe) is ever everyone — all the party leaders, his running mate, everyone — say they’re pulling the money and support from him if he doesn’t. But I doubt he’d resign even in that scenario.
Well, I’m leaving that line blank, which is what I planned to do all along (I’m not a ‘third’ party fan, sorry). The GOP sounds like it’s about the split (formally) apart. So be it.
Maybe Hillary can be held at serving only 4 years.
One can hope … But if Republicans also lose seats in Congress, that will only compound the disaster.
In my research so far, Castle best represents me. He will be on the ballot in my state. We need to study for ourselves and pray about who God would have us support, Up ballot and down.
Kizzie, I’ve been looking at the Constitution Party’s web site. I think it’s an overstatement to call it an “explicitly Christian” party. No doubt there’s heavy Christian involvment in it from the start, but the only religious reference I could find was to the Creator mentioned in the Declaration of Independence who has endowed mankind with certain unalienable rights.
… who doubts that there are other bad Trump tapes out there and available for release?
I don’t, and I suspect that Team Clinton is controlling the timing of the release or at least consulting about it. Whether this is “just the beginning” will likely depend on the needs and interests of the Clinton campaign.
As for the impact of new tapes, it may be less than one would suppose. …
Still, the release of one or two tapes the last week before the election would serve as a stark reminder of the kind of man the Republicans nominated this year. Thus, unless Trump is already buried by then, we shouldn’t be surprised if we are treated to another dose of Trump, the lewd-talking predator.
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Yapamom, I’m voting for Darrel Castle, also. And good reminder that we need to study up on the candidates on our respective ballots and pray about our voting decisions.
I’ve finally stopped smacking my head against my desk, and it does feel good to end the pounding. But the Trump Train Wreck is still happening. …
… If conservatives stand for anything, it is to hold their own to a higher standard than liberals. It is a huge concession to what Pat Moynihan called “defining deviancy down” if we appeal to the Bill Clinton standard and the tendentious arguments liberals used in the 1990s to excuse his despicable behavior.
Beyond this, I’m wondering whether I can watch the debate this evening, or more to the point, let my kids watch it. …
I’m thinking the Clinton campaign is behind the release of this recording, and have run every angle on how it plays out. Everything seems in suspended animation right now. The next 24 to 48 hours may be the most extraordinary of any presidential campaign in our history.
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GOP minus its ‘values’ emphasis? Does the nation really have this low of a moral bar? Is everyone really this confused and/or blinded, for now, by partisanship?
I remember how awful it was during the Clinton-Lewinski scandal, how so many of us bemoaned how we could have produced a president who behaved this way. I don’t relish going back to that, especially when that president could be (cough-cough) one of “ours” (though I’m registered as NPP, no-party-preference, these days). Is that now an acceptable national standard?
This is an early poll immediately following the video release, more accurate readings will come later this week. For political reasons, I would think Democrats would overwhelmingly want Trump to remain and not drop out (possibly why this video came out so late in the campaign? Or am I being too cynical?).
But the results here do cause some despair (and I’ll admit I was a little surprised by them). 😦
****Exclusive poll: GOP voters want the party to stand by Trump
A new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll conducted after the Republican nominee’s lewd comments went public shows a sharp partisan divide.
A wave of Republican officials abandoned Donald Trump on Saturday, but, at least for now, rank-and-file Republicans are standing by the party’s presidential candidate, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll conducted immediately after audio was unearthed Friday that had the GOP nominee crudely bragging about groping women and trying to lure a married woman into an affair.
Overall, fewer than four-in-10 voters — 39 percent — think Trump should end his presidential campaign, while only slightly more voters, 45 percent, think he should not drop out.
But voters are largely viewing Trump’s comments through their own partisan lens: 70 percent of Democrats say Trump should end his campaign, but just 12 percent of Republicans — and 13 percent of female Republicans — agree. …
As of now, GOP voters largely want the party to stand behind Trump. Nearly three-quarters of Republican voters, 74 percent, surveyed on Saturday said party officials should continue to support Trump. Only 13 percent think the party shouldn’t back him. …
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DJ, I just read that article. We always knew about Democrats. The big lesson from 2016 is: Republicans are much dumber and more amoral than you previously believed.
For months I have been saying that we were living in a Socialist Sodom. It turns out that the US is a blend of Sodom and Idiocracy. I guess if I watched network TV, I would already have known that.
1. Only completely amoral Republicans would want to continue to support a candidate who bragged about being a sexual predator. That is setting aside his other deficiencies.
2. Only a profoundly ignorant Republican would think that the moronic reprobate Trump still provides the best chance to beat Hillary. Any replacement would be better than him.
Ricky, our culture has become hardened, clearly. Maybe folks today would have merely shrugged over Bill Clinton’s antics in office had that happened a couple decades later? He was just a little too far ahead of the times, as it turns out. Poor Bill, bad break.
Ricky – Although I am dismayed that so many Republicans, especially Christian Republicans, are continuing to support Trump, I wouldn’t go so far to say that they are all immoral or ignorant. Many are just so very opposed to Hillary, they think Trump is the only way to go, their only choice.
It’s too bad that so many do not recognize that he isn’t even really “conservative” or that his support of the Constitution is merely lip-service only.
And back to political strategy — good point made by Martha McCallum on Howard Kurtz’s Media Buzz show, why didn’t Trump do a calm, revealing (well, ok, maybe not too revealing) sit-down interview with someone, it could have partly, she said, put this story behind him going into the debate. Opportunity lost?
Clinton has her own major, major baggage, of course — we’ll see how hard she gets questioned tonight.
Since he hasn’t honestly — or in any authentic way — really talked about this yet, he’ll be on the spot tonight (and he doesn’t always do well in those situations — most of us don’t — especially when he’s on the defensive as he will be in spades).
A somewhat controlled and honest interview Saturday night might have cut the edge a bit. People also will likely be getting tired of hearing about this, ad nauseum, over and over again all weekend, voters may just want to move on from it within a day or so.
DJ, You may have missed it, but Trump gave such an interview on last night’s SNL, interrupting the Vice Presidential debate piece in the opening. I would post a link except it is rated X like other Trump utterances.
On Facebook I mentioned that it may be too late to replace Trump because of the printed ballots & early voting. I was told that those votes are really for the delegates, so that if Trump were replaced, those votes would go to his replacement.
Kizzie @ 10.20: Those nasty rumors are being spread by the Clintons who have seen Trump self-destruct and now view Arnold as their primary competitor. See my post this morning @8:07. Arnold is always nattily attired in his red collar except when he takes his bath.
My advice: Do the right thing! Man up! Blast Trump and call for his withdrawal. I’m sure conservatives in the German Reichstag in the early 1930s had similar dilemmas. At some point, you must identify evil for what it is. Trump and Hillary are evil personified.
From everything I’ve read, there’s no practical way to replace Trump, even if he resigns — ballots being out and early voting underway simply make it a legal nightmare if it’s tried. Nothing I’ve read has suggested it’s built into the election laws that a vote for Trump would somehow automatically transfer to his replacement — huge problems with that anyway, I’d think.
Besides, from what I’ve also been hearing, the feeling to replace Trump is far from unanimous (and yes, I was surprised by this). Most of his supporters are sticking with him (so replacing Trump would lead to a messier mess than we already have, if that’s even possible).
A lot will be riding on how he does at tonight’s debate, of course. But it seems I may be maintaining my perfect record so far in this election — of predicting most everything wrong. 🙂
DJ, Our problem is that we have continually overestimated the intelligence and morality of Trump supporters. Trump himself said it months ago: “He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in broad daylight and it wouldn’t matter.” Most of his moronic, amoral supporters would stick with him. However, he is not going to win this election. It looks like he may well bring down the Republican Party with him.
I think the problem lies with our overall cultural shift in the past 50 years (with changes and a declining sense of values becoming more marked in the past 20 years).
It’s not ignorance so much as it is the changing standards we’ve all witnessed taking place. Credit the entertainment media, cable TV and, of course, the Internet (combined with a larger number of children being raised with no religious connections whatsoever).
And there’s a strong undercurrent going on this year — a genuine frustration with the political class — that has led to this very unpredictable election. Trump, as imperfect as he is, managed to tap into that sentiment.
Apparently many voters are still willing to throw caution to the wind & go rogue with a vote for Trump over Hillary Clinton, who is probably the epitome of the political “class” in America (not to mention being horribly annoying to so many).
Let’s hope the daughter doesn’t try to follow her parents into public office.
As I mentioned earlier and DJ’s link demonstrates, Trump will keep his core supporters through just about anything — that is about 40% of the electorate. It remains to be seen if the 3-8% who might consider voting for him will forget about this scandal by tomorrow. Knowing Trump’s tendencies, he might drag it on — picking a self inflicted wound.
I don’t like Nazi analogies but Ricky makes a good point. Hitler attained power not only through elections he also was aided by the Catholic Centre and the National parties who refused to align with the Liberal parties let alone the Social Democrats or Communists. Republicans should be aware of who they align themselves with and for what purpose. With that in mind, I find it interesting that as Republicans are jumping ship, Franklin Graham and Gary Bauer are still on the Trump wagon. Apparently, selling your soul for the Supreme Court makes sense to them.
I will disagree with DJ on changing moral standards — I don’t think they’ve changed much except there’s a greater openness and/or willingness of the media to discuss what used to be too crude for polite company. Hence, whereas nobody discussed FDR’s affairs and Eleanor’s relationship to her secretary, Mad Men style harassment, etc today we discuss our politicians dalliances, date rape, sexual harassment, etc. And this is a good thing. Interestingly part of this openness is the result of a breakdown of traditional cultural/religious morality which sought to hide or shame people.
DJ, Here are the reasons I think ignorance is a huge factor.
1. I heard Reagan’s speeches and Nixon’s speeches and even Ford’s speeches. I have also listen to Trump. Not only is Trump himself incredibly ignorant. He is appealing to and promoting ignorance.
2. Compare our books, our movies, our music and even our TV shows to those of 50 years ago. They, like Trump, appeal to and promote ignorance.
3. Even the shallowness of many modern sermons and Christian songs demonstrate our ignorance.
4. Look at this last appalling episode. Trump and his foolish supporters say he is being attacked for his ‘bad language’. They are apparently mentally incapable of understanding that the ‘bad language’ was Trump’s description of multiple sexual assaults committed by Trump.
If you replace the fictional president in the movie Idiocracy with Donald Trump, you wouldn’t have to change a single scene or a single line. He could play the role with no preparation just as he will “debate” tonight without preparation.
“I don’t think they’ve changed much except there’s a greater openness and/or willingness of the media to discuss what used to be too crude for polite company. Hence, whereas nobody discussed FDR’s affairs and Eleanor’s relationship to her secretary, Mad Men style harassment, etc today we discuss our politicians dalliances, date rape, sexual harassment, etc. And this is a good thing. Interestingly part of this openness is the result of a breakdown of traditional cultural/religious morality which sought to hide or shame people.”
Sin has been around for a really long time. 🙂 There’s nothing new about it.
What’s new is the gradual social acceptance of it as “not a big deal” — each to his own. Shame? I’d suggest that these things weren’t discussed openly because there was a common sense throughout the culture that these were shameful things.
Now? Clearly not so much.
So I stick with my argument that yes, standards have changed (for the worse).
I know all the Wanderers appreciate the job you have done as a single father raising a daughter. My only child is a son and my wife did most of the work raising him.
I have helped teach high school girls in Sunday School. In this role I have had the honor of getting to know many young ladies and many parents. All young people can be vulnerable to assault. However, size, speed and other factors I do not fully understand make girls more vulnerable.
I am completely outraged that any Christian leaders would, at this time, publicly support the predator Trump. The church is going to pay a heavy price for its support of the reprobate Trump for years to come.
The main campaign issue I’m interested in is globalism—and whether or not we can get out of these treaties that take away our sovereignty and jobs. Trump was always the only choice as far as I’m concerned. I would have been happy to vote for a more suave personality but none other addressed those issues. So I supported him in the primary and I’ll vote for him as soon as early voting starts.
I’m a little surprised that so many politicians are calling for Trump to drop out. But I guess I shouldn’t be. Most of them probably have more in common with Hillary than they do with working Americans anyway.
1. Speeches are about sound bites — 15 seconds to make the evening news. FDR, JFK, Reagan etc were all before the cable news era.
2. Network television is circling the drain — they are in a vicious circle of lower revenues producing cheaper reality tv shows producing lower revenues…… However, quality is to be found on cable, netflix, etc. Highly complex well written shows. Children’s literature today is amazing, far and above the simplistic stuff written in my childhood.
3. Its been awhile since I attended my childhood church but ten years ago I noticed they replaced the traditional 20 min intense theological sermon and traditions psalms/hymns with 5 min pablum feel good messages and songs I would have been embarrassed to sing in Sunday School.
4. There are no words for the blinders some people possess.
My sense is the issue of replacing Trump will fade — without a major groundswell of those who voted for him, it would be playing with fire, and open to charges that the ‘establishment’ or electors are trampling the will of the people.
If that groundswell doesn’t develop within the next few days, it’s a moot point — people would have to, in very large numbers, rise up to demand Trump be replaced and I’m thinking that’s not going to happen
DJ — My comments about the demise of shame was as it relates to victims of harassment, date rape, etc. In traditional societies, girls were frequently blamed for enticing the assault and their virginity was part of the family honour. In a more open society, we no longer accept this nonsense and hopefully encourage girls/women to come forward. The less embarrassment the better in this case.
Trump’s populist message has rust belt appeal but those jobs aren’t coming back no matter which treaty is ripped up. And the difficulty in ripping up economic/trade agreements will cause greater economic dislocation than its worth. The Brits will find out as they attempt to Brexit.
But Debra is right — Clintons and Kaisch are far closer than Kaisch and Trump.
I’ll pass on the debate — watching Luke Cage on Netflix.
HRW, 1. I agree with you about what is out there on the fringes: from BookTV on CSpan to independent movies (we have to drive to Dallas to see) to excellent military histories based on newly available source material. Sadly, most folks aren’t getting that stuff.
2. That is great news about children’s literature. My wife had my son read the classics, but he always had several modern authors he read faithfully.
3. If you look hard you can also find great churches with fine pastors. My son attends The Village Church. His pastor is Matt Chandler. Chandler is better at applying scripture to one’s daily life than anyone I have ever heard. Whenever I visit, I leave thinking of some area of my life that needs improvement.
Debra, You might enjoy The World is Flat by Thomas Friedman. I often disagree with Friedman and I don’t agree with many things in that book. However, it is a good analysis of what is going on in the world in the area of trade and economic development.
We should remember that NBC has had the Trump tape since 2005. What if it had come out early in the primaries?
1. The mainstream media will not help vet bad Republican candidates in the primaries. They want a bad Republican candidate to be nominated so the Democrat can win.
2. The conservative media needs to weed out bad Republican candidates. This year the biggest voice in conservative media (FoxNews) was the biggest promoter of the worst Republican candidate (Donald Trump).
I don’t think NBC knowingly sat on this tape since before the primaries. I do think Billy Bush remembered the tape once Trump insulted his cousin once too often. Perhaps by the time he found the tape, Jeb was out and Billy sent it on to the Clinton camp who released it at oportune time. Or maybe I’m completey off and the tape emerged in a different scenario. But just think, how many people has Trump ripped off, stiffed, harassed or assaulted? Lots of motive to go around.
Hi Kizzie (and DJ) and all.
I do occasionally lurk when I have a free moment or two—just to satisfy myself that all is well on “the other” coast and in Idaho on the farm and all the other places you all call home.
OK. I couldn’t resist. I’m watching the debate …. Trump is whining about the moderators and demands more time…..Bill Maher is right, Trump is a whiny little b….
Optics …. Trump hasn’t learned from previous debate …. he’s pacing back and forth while Clinton is talking. He’s sniffing again….is his cold still there? or is it coke? He’s rambling. He’s talking about his buildings.
Wow. Trump just complained Hilary was allowed to go over but he just finished talking for five minutes straight. I would like to see a final tally percentage of who spoke the most, I think he would win easily.
Raddatz is a bit argumentative but Trump is challenging her on statements and her call for the time limit. It seems to be a mutual thing ….. Trumps’s attitude to women and a backlash perhaps.
Clinton looks stressed, not as cool as she did in the first debate.
I’ve missed some of this, but seems like it’s going toward a draw. ? He’s maddeningly inarticulate and overuses some words (“disastrous”), but that’s Trump.
She’s very smiley which seems to belie a nervousness and stress.
She’s more direct and to the point, but she’s far cooler than Trump. I think her simile is a coping mechanism to deal with the incoherent rant next to her. Its either smile or laugh.
Bill Clinton would be proud of Trump. He denied that he committed the very sexual assaults that he bragged about on tape. Then, though often rambling, rude and incoherent, he defeated an ineffective Clinton in the rest of the debate. He is still toast. There are more tapes still to come out.
He stemmed the bleeding. He was better but are we judging him by a different standard? She was far more composed than Trump. Yes she lectured but she is knowledgable and smart people do sound like they lecture. Trump was loud, interruptive, and paced far too much…..the temperament question is still there.
There were two places where Trump denied his behaviour. One as Ricky mentioned was the “locker room” talk. He wasn’t describing a hypothetical of what he could do rather he was describing what he already did and that was sexual assault. Second he denied telling people to check out a non-existent sex tape.
Clinton could’ve pushed both times but she was more intetested in discussing real policy. Hence the so called debate was disjointed.
Trump’s the outlier, it’s why he’s judged on different standards. It’s also why he caught on with voters who believe the country is in pretty bad shape and headed for a cliff.
Essentially, he survived to campaign another day, something I would have thought would be unlikely on Saturday.
I think the American people have already moved on from the 2005 incident.
I thought Hillary won, in terms of looking more presidential, knowledgeable, etc. He looked more prepared this time. Both of them managed to change the subject on topics they didn’t want to discuss; Trump looked whiny and interrupted a lot. Hillary looked far more self-controlled. But the bottom line hasn’t changed for me–no way can I vote for either of them. I won’t vote for a pro-abortion candidate, and I don’t trust her at all. But neither do I trust him. He has pretty much candidated for the position of dictator, and in despicability he is probably at least as bad as Bill Clinton, and honestly probably worse, in his womanizing.(It may just look that way since the Clintons stayed together for mutual benefit and Trump dumped his women as he got tired of them, but at least appearance wise it would seem Trump is no better, and possibly worse.) If it was inexcusable in their guy it’s inexcusable in “ours.”
May the worst guy lose. Or may both of them lose, preferably.
… As always, he was sometimes incoherent, but more often than not, he made more sense than Hillary, who was in full Nurse Ratched mode.
…. Trump was Trump tonight–he had some great moments, and also some incoherent ones. But he swung for the fences, for example, going after Hillary on her criminal conduct with regard to handling of national secrets. Hillary was Hillary. She yaks away in a manner that most people find obnoxious, and leaves herself open to the observation that she is all talk and no action. …
In short, Trump won. In my opinion, he won big. We will see whether it matters.
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Excuse me for changing the subject. I want to go back to my exchange with Kizzie last night about the Constitution Party. I went further into the depths of their web site and I can see why your friend might construe it as a “Christian” party. I saw several scripture references from the old testament, including one from Proverbs and the one that goes something like “If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves…” Though I didn’t find anything distinctly Christian, I think it’s fair to say that the party is deeply rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition. That will no doubt offend some people and keep it on the fringes.
Hillary almost always looks nice–certainly more attractive than Trump. She looks more presidential, talks more smoothly; she’s definitely more politically correct. She’s a career politician. So if you have to ask who won, then she didn’t, because by all measures she should have knocked it out of the ballpark. But she can’t. She can’t because people don’t trust her. She’s a career politician who not all that long ago said she was broke. And now she has 200 Million or whatever in her foundation? I like people to be entrepreneurial, but not as a government official—selling influence.
The sex, lies and videotape debate: Trump struggles early but finishes strong
… The St. Louis debate may have wound up close to a draw. And given the hell that Trump has been through in the past 48 hours, and despite his pregame stunt with Clinton’s accusers, that is a virtual victory for him.
________________________________
Ricky @8:05 The World is Flat looks like an interesting read.
And if Trump does drop out, I will strongly consider writing in Arnold Weaver. He has a face you could trust.
Wandering Views 
Trump knew he was being heard. He took off the mic at the end and gave it to someone.
He didn’t think he was doing something wrong.
You hear that in a barracks. all the time.
A guy in the barracks at Westover always had tales like that. He said, “I’ll tell you guys, it’s tough being big and good looking.” He was half kidding.
Trump just doesn’t have good judgment.
But I will not vote for Hillary.
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Chas, I think it goes beyond good judgment. Trump is just Bill Clinton with a New York accent. He is a sexual predator. That is as low as it gets. Any Republican in Congress who is afraid of the amoral and moronic Trumpkins in his district and won’t call upon Trump to withdraw is worthless.
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I can’t imagine Trump withdrawing. But if he did, what would happen? Are such contingencies even in writing anywhere? (They should be, of course, but who can even imagine such a thing, especially the last month before an election when the ballots are ready?)
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Chas, I’ve never been in a men’s locker room or any military place. Thing is twofold: (1) a lot of guys who talk that way aren’t actually acting it out; (2) the guys who do talk that way, and do act on it, are cads; and (3) locker rooms and the like are usually for the young and the foolish.
I am sure that as he said, Bill Clinton said the same and worse–but what kind of standard is that? Hillary, of course, was being disingenuous with the fake outrage in her tweet. She knows her husband is exactly the same type, and she gave him a pass and supported him in his campaigns. She’s being a politician. Nonetheless, Trump does seem to have caught up with himself and will probably actually crash and burn, as was predicted when he was just one of the 17.
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Cheryl is correct on #1 & 2. It isn’t just locker rooms. It’s barracks, etc. I understand it goes on at worksites where all men are working. I never encountered that, so I don’t know.
i.e. I’ve never worked at a place without women, except in th AF.
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I see on Drudge that Hillary is shocked by this sex talk.
SHOCKED she is.
Never heard such talk.
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A friend commented we should always vote Republican because the newspaper reporters will then actually do their job (with apologies to Donna).
I haven’t gone for the paper yet–10 steps out the front door– what was the latest Wikileak dump from that reporter the Democrats love so much?
I’ll be cleaning house today. I don’t want to soil my mind with the Trump story.
A generation ago the Democratic president stole the innocence of American children, now the Republican candidate does the same with a new generation.
And the glee of journalists to proclaim the crass quotes is revolting.
God is not mocked and He will not bless a nation that shouts such disdain for those created in His image.
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Hillary being shocked is amusing, considering. Don’t you know she’s loving this.
Trump would have to resign before he could be replaced by the party and the timing is just too short, I’m afraid. As Cheryl mentioned, ballots are printed and early voting is soon starting (or maybe already has?).
Billy Bush (so who’d ever heard of hm before this?) issued a quick and what I thought was a contrite apology, he immediately took down his twitter page and he sounded sincere, I thought. He was young and was “going along” with a big, famous sidekick for a couple hours. Hahaha, laugh along, get along, part of the job, it’s just show biz.
Trump? He was, what, about 60 at the time of the recording? And newly married. His “apology” struck me as going through the motions, no one believes it was an isolated moment caught on tape. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you’re sorry. Whatever. Too little, too late.
And, yes, he and Bill Clinton are no doubt two jerks who probably have a grand time together.
No one’s shocked. Still, the recording is horrific, each time I heard or read it in news accounts yesterday, bleeped and non-bleeped alike, I just felt sick and more than a little irritated. What a jerk.
It’s been suggested that married women, for the first time in a while, may swing Democrat in this election as a result.
It’ll be President Clinton, I’m afraid.
And the Republican party is in even worse shambles now that before. I can only imagine the panic and back room talks going on this weekend about what to do now.
I feel for Mike Pence. And Ben Carson. No doubt they went into this with eyes open, realizing who Trump was, but being dragged by association into this public humiliation has got to be making them sick at heart right now.
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I’ll say it again: What a mess.
And yes, our newsroom seemed rather quietly gleeful over it yesterday; thankfully I has deep into writing a story about our local ghosts and haunted landmarks for Halloween. And there was a big Dodger game on so the news channel wasn’t on in the newsroom.
Just hearing (in general) about the hot mic recording of Trump earlier, I didn’t think it would amount to anything, especially since he always survives this stuff. I didn’t actually see or hear what was said on the recording until I filed my story and was almost ready to go home — I was stunned.
He’s gone and done it now, I thought, no coming back from this — especially so close to election day.
See ya, Donald.
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“The Trump Titanic hit an iceberg yesterday, or an iceberg was moved into its path.”
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/10/trumps-apology.php
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… The video that prompted the apology did not simply reflect Trump’s vulgarity. It betrayed indefensible behavior in his own immortal words. …
… He is saying the Clintons have said and done worse than he has said and done. He is saying that they have more for which to apologize than he does. It wasn’t a persuasive argument when we made it to our parents or we heard it from our kids and it’s not impressive from a candidate for the presidency of the United States. …
… does Trump think he can defend himself by arguing that she is worse than he is? …
_____________________________
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I’m surprised by the response of many evangelical leaders…
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/%E2%80%98still-the-best-candidate%E2%80%99-some-evangelicals-still-back-trump-despite-lewd-video/ar-BBxabjy?li=BBnb7Kz
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And granted, the timing of this release is, um, curious. I kept wondering how this hadn’t surfaced before now.
I guess it’s October Surprise season. But I suspect someone’s been sitting on this one … More to come? Probably. It has completely overshadowed the “news” that is coming out on Clinton.
Sheesh, I wish we could all just halt the entire process for now and start over again.
It’ll be a rocky 4 years ahead, that’s for sure.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-10-08/trump-campaign-reels-as-some-donors-explore-replacing-him
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Trump Campaign Reels as Some Donors Explore Replacing Him
Key Republican donors have begun looking into whether it’s possible to replace Donald Trump as the party’s presidential nominee after his campaign was jarred Friday by a video showing him speaking about groping women and making other crude, sexually aggressive comments. …
… Spencer Zwick, a top Republican fundraiser, said donors are backing away from Trump. “Major GOP donors are pulling support from Donald Trump and are now looking to fund an effort to back someone else as the Republican nominee,” Zwick said.
Republican Congressman Jason Chaffetz of Utah announced he could no longer endorse Trump, saying he wished his running mate, Indiana Governor Mike Pence, was on the top of the ticket. “I think we should all stand up and say we’re not going to tolerate this,” Chaffetz, who heads the House Oversight Committee, said on CNN. …
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Trump says everything is “unbelievable”.
I’m beginning not to believe it.
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Washington Post: Amid growing calls to drop out, Trump vows to ‘never withdraw’
(although didn’t Nixon vow he’d never resign — before he resigned?)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/amid-growing-calls-to-drop-out-trump-vows-to-never-withdraw/2016/10/08/8c0b5b7a-8d68-11e6-bff0-d53f592f176e_story.html
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Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump said in an interview Saturday that he would not drop out of the race under any circumstances, following calls from several in his party to do so.
“I’d never withdraw. I’ve never withdrawn in my life,” Trump told The Washington Post in a phone call from his home in Trump Tower in New York. “No, I’m not quitting this race. I have tremendous support.”
“People are calling and saying, ‘Don’t even think about doing anything else but running,” Trump said when asked about GOP defections. “You have to see what’s going on. The real story is that people have no idea the support. I don’t know how that’s going to boil down but people have no idea the support.
“Running against her,” Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton, makes keeping the party behind him easier, Trump added. …
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Guess what “issue” will dominate the debate tomorrow and virtually the rest of this campaign?
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If he stays in, it’s pretty much all over.
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Maybe it’s time for the party to organize & conduct a mass intervention on Trump.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/07/theres-no-longer-any-way-for-republicans-to-boot-donald-trump-from-the-ballot/
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More than 34,000 Republican voters have already cast their ballots for the 2016 general election according to the U.S. Election Project, 8,000 of them in the battleground state of North Carolina and another 5,000 in Florida. Not all of those ballots were cast for Donald Trump, it’s safe to assume, but it’s more than likely that most of them were.
And that, in a nutshell, is why it’s far too late for the Republican Party to dump Donald Trump from their ticket.
_______________________
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Carly Fiorina
1 hr ·
Donald Trump does not represent me or my party. I understand the responsibility of Republicans to support their nominee. Our nominee has weighty responsibilities as well. Donald Trump has manifestly failed in these responsibilities.
I have traveled the country for years warning Americans that Hillary Clinton is unfit to be President.
We must have a conservative in the White House to restore accountability, opportunity and security. For the sake of our Constitution and the rule of law, we must defeat Hillary Clinton.
Today I ask Donald Trump to step aside and for the RNC to replace him with Gov. Mike Pence.
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James Carville: Trump Will “Quit” The Race
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/08/james_carville_trump_will_quit_the_race.html
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On Friday’s edition of Real Time James Carville told HBO host Bill Maher he thinks Donald Trump will drop out of the presidential race. Fellow guest Mark Cuban was in agreement. Video of an interview Trump did 10 years ago where he used lewd language surfaced prior to the show. From Real Time:
BILL MAHER: Donald Trump was supposed to have a rally tomorrow with Paul Ryan and now he has been disinvited — this just happened before we went — and it’s going to be Mike Pence and Paul Ryan. Wow. When the top of the ticket is disinvited to his own rally?
MARK CUBAN: He’s finally toxic. Donald Trump is finally toxic.
JAMES CARVILLE: Mark and I got in a discussion before the show. I think he’s going to quit. Really, right now, I’m saying right here. …
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I’m shocked that anyone is shocked by this tape. Its just simply part of a pattern of how he views women — marital rape, groping, name calling, objectifying, etc. This is nothing new. Any Republican politician who now calls for him to quit has been deluding himself for a year.
And this isn’t equivalent to locker/barrack banter. Working in construction and restaurants I’ve heard a lot of banter, etc., however, the difference is the older and more managerial people at work would put the young braggart in his place. Here we have a 60 year old just recently married man being the braggart and a young man who is just going along. Trump’s behaviour is more like the behaviour of rich and/or powerful old men who think they are above the law.
And I don’t think Trump’s behaviour is equivalent to Bill Clinton’s. For one, the contest is between Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton; their spouses shouldn’t be in the equation —- we’re not talking about Melania’s modelling career. Bill’s behaviour isn’t unusual for a powerful politician but he’s been fairly circumspect in retirement — he’s not groping beauty queens nor demeaning women who don’t match his standards.
However, I don’t think it will matter. As Trump said, he could shoot someone in broad daylight and people will still vote for him. The people who vote for him should already know about his immoral behaviour and it hasn’t made a difference so far. I didn’t think he would win and I still don’t think he will win but he will match McCain and Romney. And that is indicative of the dislike for Hilary Clinton and the sad state of American politics.
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Initially I felt sorry for Pence but contemplating it further I don’t have any sympathy. Pence joined the ticket voluntary with full knowledge of who Trump is (I’d like to think he did some homework). During the VP debate, he won by simply inventing a Trump who doesn’t exist — he had a 35% truth rating for that debate. He either deluded himself or couldn’t resist the chance to become VP — something more experienced and wiser Republicans turned down — i.e. Kaisch.
A tweet making the rounds of leftist sites seems to sum it up — Trump is the “face” of the rapist and Pence is the “face” of the judge who lets him off.
That being said, the Republicans won’t drop Trump. It’s too late to change the ballot in most states and they know that Trump represents a large faction of the Republican party. He will be as successful as any other Republican candidate at this point in the race.
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hwesseli: Pence had a 35% truth rating for the debate? Sez who…?
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Politifact fact checked 13 statements made by Pence during the debate and only 4 were true or mostly true for a 31% accuracy rate. They fact checked 19 of Kaine’s statements and 15 were true or mostly true for a 79% accuracy rate. They kept a running blog during the debate. Other sites did the math.
Even prior to the debate Kaine had a better record than Pence for telling the truth — about 75% to 60%.
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That sounds pretty bogus to me…
“Bill’s behaviour isn’t unusual for a powerful politician…” Why didn’t Bill Clinton’s “lewd” behavior matter when he ran for president? Why is Bill Clinton still revered by his supporters? Were his actions simply a case of Boys will be Boys? Are only Democrat men allowed to say and do things that are demeaning to women? Has Bill Clinton ever apologized for his misconduct with women? Has his wife ever apologized for what she called his accusers? Yet another case of double standards?
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A couple weeks ago, a friend on Facebook wrote something along the lines of:
“Character matters in the other candidate.
Pragmatism matters in ours.”
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Several days ago, I asked former WMB regular Kyle his views on Gary Johnson’s abortion views, & mentioned that many Christians have a stance of refusing to vote for anyone not fully pro-life. His response, for your consideration. . .
“It is extremely difficult for me to back a candidate who is not against abortion. I don’t do it lightly by any means.
My first thought is that anyone who feels that way should vote for Darrel Castle. He is the only candidate running who is dependably and consistently pro-life. I do not understand people who insist that they can only vote for a pro-life candidate but that Trump is their choice.
I do not trust Trump’s “change of heart” because it is almost certainly a political maneuver and not a heartfelt conviction. I absolutely don’t want to vote for a person who pretends to be pro-life just to trick people like me into voting for him.
I also don’t believe that Trump cares enough to do anything about abortion once elected, and as we have seen, the president can do very little about it in the first place.
The Republican Party has USED pro-life people to get elected but have done nothing to stop it, even when they had majorities in the Congress and a president in the White House. I gave up on the Republican Party years ago for that reason. I refuse to be used by them anymore for a dirty political strategy. Since Trump is the Republican nominee, I would not support him even if he were more definitely pro-life.
I wish that Johnson were pro-life. I wish that the Libertarian Party would at least be neutral on the matter. Many pro-life people are members of the Libertarian Party but not enough yet to change the platform.
What is different about Johnson is that his view would (if he could make it happen) turn abortion back to the states, and at that level there is a chance that abortion could be ended or at least more restricted.
I have also found myself turning away from the political strategy toward a more people-centered strategy. We need to win people to Christ and then teach them about the sanctity of life. We Christians have lost the culture war, so now we need to probably focus on evangelism rather than winning elections.”
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Have we REALLY lost the Culture War? By winning, the other side is destroying our country’s morals. People realize this and don’t really approve of the destruction. To win the Culture War, we can show people how to regain that same culture, by becoming a Christian. Are we up to it? We are Called…
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Kizzie,
OK, so that’s how Kyle gets past the pro-abortion part, at least in his mind, but it’s a pretty lame attempt.
Now how does he get past the fact that GJ’s proven on multiple occasions to have no grasp of world affairs, and well, seems like he’s a bit of a dolt, or possibly just stoned?
😆
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Tom Nichols with a World War II reference:
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Kyle: Let’s see. I could vote for an ignorant stoned dolt or I could vote for a liberal, amoral, ignorant, infantile demagogue who is also a vindictive megalomaniac and a sexual predator. Give me the stoned dolt please.
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Now McCain.
Ben Carson says other Trump bombshells will follow. He and Huckabee are looking pretty foolish right now. If they can quietly persuade Trump to withdraw within a couple of days, they will have partially offset their earlier foolishness.
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A good statement from John Kasich:
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Another Senator calls for Trump to withdraw:
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https://twitter.com/mandilivingston/status/784862254659276801
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AJ – Excuse me if this sounds sharp, but did you read what Kyle wrote with an open mind? He doesn’t mention it here, but he was very involved in the Republican party many years ago, including being a delegate in Texas, & became very disillusioned. (As a delegate, his vote was ignored or thrown out or something – I forget the details – because it wasn’t for the one the party wanted him to back.) He is one of the most intelligent & principled Christian men I “know”.
His point is that Republicans have not done anything to end abortion, but Johnson actually supports states rights on the issue (the true conservative position). (He also supports various restrictions that states have enacted, that are in danger of being overturned by the federal government.)
Don’t forget that Trump has said that he thinks Planned Parenthood does good work, & hasn’t been pro-life very long.
As for Johnson, he was a successful two-term Republican governor in a normally blue state. He’s no dolt. Here are two articles that praise his foreign policy views. . .
“Foreign Policy Magazine Sees Through the Gaffes to Gary Johnson’s Smart, Popular Foreign Policy Vision”
http://reason.com/blog/2016/09/30/foreign-policy-magazine-sees-through-the
And “Presidential Candidate Gary Johnson on Syria, Iran, and Aid to Israel”
http://www.realclearworld.com/articles/2016/09/21/gary_johnson_foreign_policy_syria_iran_israel_112056.html
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I can only hope that Trump withdraws — but from what I’ve read and heard, that still leaves a major problem as early voting already has begun.
As for Clinton-Trump, I return to the comment “Pot, meet kettle.”
Character matters. And that goes for both sides.
What is interesting is that people are still capable of being shocked. May not all is lost.
Let the rebuilding begin sooner rather than later.
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Interesting remarks from Charles Krauthammer on Trump’s statement (in his apology) that the words don’t reflect who he really is.
Krauthammer said these private (or so they assumed at the time) comments show exactly who someone is.
And then on Trump’s argument that he’s “changed” during the campaign: No one will believe that for a moment.
Well, the post-election books to come just got a lot more interesting after this weekend.
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Nate Silver’s analysis is clinical as always.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-bottom-could-fall-out-for-trump/
I am pleased to see the growing list of Republicans calling on Trump to drop out. He seems to want to hold on to the nomination like a Third World despot hangs on to power. If he shows up for the debate on Sunday, that is going to be some circus.
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I don’t buy the Clinton-Trump equivalency. First and foremost, Trump is running against Hilary Clinton not Bill Clinton. Bill’s past behaviour should not be an issue. Melania’s behaviour isn’t an issue nor should Bill’s be.
And in terms of lewdness and depravity, Clinton isn’t in the same league as Trump. Trump liked to brag about wandering backstage at his pageants looking at 18-20 year old women changing, made lewd remarks about his own daughter, has been accused of rape and sexual assault by former business partners and models, including one who is underage, he once commented that 35 year olds are check out time and then demonstrated it by dumping his older wives for a newer model, and the list goes on. Clinton’s behaviour is closer to that of FDR, Eisenhower, JFK and probably Reagan then Trump.
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What now?
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/10/what-now-2.php
________________________
The Trump campaign is bleeding profusely from the wound of his Access Hollywood video. Carly Fiorina and John McCain are among the prominent Republicans who have withdrawn their support. …
… The most realistic assessment I’ve seen of the situation comes, I’m sad to say, from Chris Cillizza of the Washington Post. His article is called “Republicans made their bed with Donald Trump. Now they have to lie in it.”
That’s probably true as a general matter. But Cillizza’s piece would more accurately be titled “it’s every Republican for himself.” As his Republican sources suggest, GOP candidates will have to decide whether their current electoral interests are best served by abandoning Trump, as McCain has done, or staying the course.
But I see no option that doesn’t result in a Hillary Clinton presidency. Thus, it may be that no course is better than letting this horror show play out, learning the lessons it has to teach us, and then picking up the pieces.
____________________________
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With regard to character, I think I was talking about Hillary’s corruption. 🙂
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Condi Rice: Trump should withdraw.
https://twitter.com/ohiocoastie/status/784875572438634497
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It’s going to be a very rocky several years ahead.
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Gary Johnson has been the victim of poor media handling both from his own camp, by himself and by a willing media. In part, this is the result of a media who likes a two party conflict as it reduces the complexity and simplifies the narrative. He’s actually not the stoned dolt people make him out to be.
The Libertarian party in the US is limited by a paradox in American politics. There is a strong small or minimal government tendency in the US yet the interest groups that embraces this position also embrace the need for gov’t to regulate morality. Hence the weird contradictory position Libertarians are in if they wish to maintain a consistent philosophical platform. The escape clause for Libertarians has also been to pass this authority to lower levels of gov’t. It works philosophically but doesn’t satisfy all concerned.
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From Bill Kristol (Pence or Romney I could vote for, not keen on McMullin) :
http://www.weeklystandard.com/dump-trump-now-more-than-ever/article/2004782
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…. If Trump refuses to step down, serious Republicans and conservatives need either to persuade someone like Mitt Romney to stand as an independent write-in candidate and/or to urge a vote for Evan McMullin; perhaps the two strategies could be combined if McMullin would agree that his electors would vote in the electoral college for Romney. But whatever the mechanism, serious Republicans and conservatives need to make sure there is another choice. And at the same time serious Republicans and conservatives, having written off Donald Trump, need to make the case for a Republican Senate and House in order to check a likely President Clinton.
The removal of Trump, or at least the separation from Trump, offers hope for Republicans and conservatives. But a party and a movement that continues to stand with Trump will fall with Trump. It will have lost the future.
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Not sure why there is such rampant speculation about Trump stepping down — his name is on the ballot and will stay on the ballot. Republicans can’t just change the ballots — they will need to go through each state’s electoral board most of whom have rules that would disallow any change at this late juncture. Most of this speculation and endorsement withdrawals is simply Republican politicians avoiding an association with a toxic brand in order to save their own careers.
Dj — Clinton is corrupt to be sure but again she isn’t in the same league as Trump. Her and Bill definitely have benefited from their associations with rich and powerful people throughout the world but there has yet to be any direct evidence of rampant corruption. Trump, however, has been caught using his charity foundation to enrich himself and was ordered by the IRS to pay a fine. The Clinton Foundation meanwhile has a five star rating from charity watch groups and only 10% of its funds go to administrative costs. Trump donated money to a Florida attorney general who then dropped an investigation into Trump U — now there’s a direct pay for play.
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It will be a horrific 4 years for Clinton (and, I suspect, for the country).
Can’t we ever be rid of the Clintons?? This is like a bad dream.
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Never saw such a horrible choice of candidates in my lifetime. Toss a coin. Or stay home.
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Donna, I have doubts that the nation, as we know it, can survive eight years of Hillary.
We need someone to revoke Obama’s executive orders.
She won’t do that. Trump might.
I also fear for the country we know.
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At this point it is clear that the Republicans’ only chance to win the election is to replace Trump. However, I am not focused on the election. I am not even focused on whether Trump will actually resign. I simply want Republican leaders to do the right thing. When your candidate brags about being a sexual predator and asserts that he is entitled to be a sexual predator because he is famous, the right thing is to repudiate and shun that candidate. Paul Ryan and Wisconsin shunned Trump today. Every hour more Republicans are calling on him to withdraw. That is a form of redemption for Republicans. God is in control of the results. It does make me feel better to see Republicans stand up and do the right thing.
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An interesting article in the Washington Post on what has been going on in the Trump Bunker during the last 24+ hours.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trump-tower-the-defiant-and-isolated-republican-nominee/2016/10/08/0b3575a0-8d8e-11e6-bf8a-3d26847eeed4_story.html
Reality hasn’t yet penetrated into the Bunker.
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Have any of you looked at Darrell Castle? Constitution Party.
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Something to consider regarding Castle – On Facebook, our former regular Tammy wrote in a comment, “My only concern with him is that the Constitution Party is explicitly a Christian party. While I’m a Christian, I’m not sure that I can support a party that wants to govern as an explicitly Christian party in a pluralistic society.”
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And now there’s a drip-drip-drip of Trump’s interviews on the Howard Stern show. As someone said a few weeks ago, no one who has gone on that show should ever be nominated to run for president.
Kristen says the only way Trump resigns (maybe) is ever everyone — all the party leaders, his running mate, everyone — say they’re pulling the money and support from him if he doesn’t. But I doubt he’d resign even in that scenario.
Well, I’m leaving that line blank, which is what I planned to do all along (I’m not a ‘third’ party fan, sorry). The GOP sounds like it’s about the split (formally) apart. So be it.
Maybe Hillary can be held at serving only 4 years.
One can hope … But if Republicans also lose seats in Congress, that will only compound the disaster.
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That should have been Kristol.
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Are we approaching our Red Sea?
Maybe things will fall apart, or look like they are falling apart, & then God will do something amazing.
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In my research so far, Castle best represents me. He will be on the ballot in my state. We need to study for ourselves and pray about who God would have us support, Up ballot and down.
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Dear Mike Pence,
Don’t continue to be unequally yoked to the insane sexual predator! Withdraw! Do the right thing!
https://twitter.com/pjw20161951/status/784952178427305984
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wow
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Kizzie, I’ve been looking at the Constitution Party’s web site. I think it’s an overstatement to call it an “explicitly Christian” party. No doubt there’s heavy Christian involvment in it from the start, but the only religious reference I could find was to the Creator mentioned in the Declaration of Independence who has endowed mankind with certain unalienable rights.
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More tapes?
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/10/more-trump-tapes-to-come.php
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… who doubts that there are other bad Trump tapes out there and available for release?
I don’t, and I suspect that Team Clinton is controlling the timing of the release or at least consulting about it. Whether this is “just the beginning” will likely depend on the needs and interests of the Clinton campaign.
As for the impact of new tapes, it may be less than one would suppose. …
Still, the release of one or two tapes the last week before the election would serve as a stark reminder of the kind of man the Republicans nominated this year. Thus, unless Trump is already buried by then, we shouldn’t be surprised if we are treated to another dose of Trump, the lewd-talking predator.
___________________________
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Yapamom, I’m voting for Darrel Castle, also. And good reminder that we need to study up on the candidates on our respective ballots and pray about our voting decisions.
Kevin (11:59), good points.
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Big political weekend, we may get to 100 here — with the upcoming debate on Sunday still to come
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Power line blog:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/10/what-now-for-trump.php
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I’ve finally stopped smacking my head against my desk, and it does feel good to end the pounding. But the Trump Train Wreck is still happening. …
… If conservatives stand for anything, it is to hold their own to a higher standard than liberals. It is a huge concession to what Pat Moynihan called “defining deviancy down” if we appeal to the Bill Clinton standard and the tendentious arguments liberals used in the 1990s to excuse his despicable behavior.
Beyond this, I’m wondering whether I can watch the debate this evening, or more to the point, let my kids watch it. …
I’m thinking the Clinton campaign is behind the release of this recording, and have run every angle on how it plays out. Everything seems in suspended animation right now. The next 24 to 48 hours may be the most extraordinary of any presidential campaign in our history.
______________________________
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Uh-oh! Now that Trump is no longer a factor, Hillary is training all her guns on Arnold Weaver.
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GOP minus its ‘values’ emphasis? Does the nation really have this low of a moral bar? Is everyone really this confused and/or blinded, for now, by partisanship?
I remember how awful it was during the Clinton-Lewinski scandal, how so many of us bemoaned how we could have produced a president who behaved this way. I don’t relish going back to that, especially when that president could be (cough-cough) one of “ours” (though I’m registered as NPP, no-party-preference, these days). Is that now an acceptable national standard?
This is an early poll immediately following the video release, more accurate readings will come later this week. For political reasons, I would think Democrats would overwhelmingly want Trump to remain and not drop out (possibly why this video came out so late in the campaign? Or am I being too cynical?).
But the results here do cause some despair (and I’ll admit I was a little surprised by them). 😦
****Exclusive poll: GOP voters want the party to stand by Trump
A new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll conducted after the Republican nominee’s lewd comments went public shows a sharp partisan divide.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/politico-morning-consult-poll-229394
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A wave of Republican officials abandoned Donald Trump on Saturday, but, at least for now, rank-and-file Republicans are standing by the party’s presidential candidate, according to a new POLITICO/Morning Consult poll conducted immediately after audio was unearthed Friday that had the GOP nominee crudely bragging about groping women and trying to lure a married woman into an affair.
Overall, fewer than four-in-10 voters — 39 percent — think Trump should end his presidential campaign, while only slightly more voters, 45 percent, think he should not drop out.
But voters are largely viewing Trump’s comments through their own partisan lens: 70 percent of Democrats say Trump should end his campaign, but just 12 percent of Republicans — and 13 percent of female Republicans — agree. …
As of now, GOP voters largely want the party to stand behind Trump. Nearly three-quarters of Republican voters, 74 percent, surveyed on Saturday said party officials should continue to support Trump. Only 13 percent think the party shouldn’t back him. …
______________________________
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DJ, I just read that article. We always knew about Democrats. The big lesson from 2016 is: Republicans are much dumber and more amoral than you previously believed.
For months I have been saying that we were living in a Socialist Sodom. It turns out that the US is a blend of Sodom and Idiocracy. I guess if I watched network TV, I would already have known that.
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Let me explain the last post:
1. Only completely amoral Republicans would want to continue to support a candidate who bragged about being a sexual predator. That is setting aside his other deficiencies.
2. Only a profoundly ignorant Republican would think that the moronic reprobate Trump still provides the best chance to beat Hillary. Any replacement would be better than him.
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Ricky, our culture has become hardened, clearly. Maybe folks today would have merely shrugged over Bill Clinton’s antics in office had that happened a couple decades later? He was just a little too far ahead of the times, as it turns out. Poor Bill, bad break.
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Sorry for the misinformation on the Constitution Party. Tammy usually researches things thoroughly, so I didn’t bother checking for myself. Bad me.
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Ricky – Although I am dismayed that so many Republicans, especially Christian Republicans, are continuing to support Trump, I wouldn’t go so far to say that they are all immoral or ignorant. Many are just so very opposed to Hillary, they think Trump is the only way to go, their only choice.
It’s too bad that so many do not recognize that he isn’t even really “conservative” or that his support of the Constitution is merely lip-service only.
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Ricky – I’ve heard rumors that Arnold Weaver is often seen in the nude. That may work against him.
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Well, on to the debate.
And back to political strategy — good point made by Martha McCallum on Howard Kurtz’s Media Buzz show, why didn’t Trump do a calm, revealing (well, ok, maybe not too revealing) sit-down interview with someone, it could have partly, she said, put this story behind him going into the debate. Opportunity lost?
Clinton has her own major, major baggage, of course — we’ll see how hard she gets questioned tonight.
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Since he hasn’t honestly — or in any authentic way — really talked about this yet, he’ll be on the spot tonight (and he doesn’t always do well in those situations — most of us don’t — especially when he’s on the defensive as he will be in spades).
A somewhat controlled and honest interview Saturday night might have cut the edge a bit. People also will likely be getting tired of hearing about this, ad nauseum, over and over again all weekend, voters may just want to move on from it within a day or so.
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DJ, You may have missed it, but Trump gave such an interview on last night’s SNL, interrupting the Vice Presidential debate piece in the opening. I would post a link except it is rated X like other Trump utterances.
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His “apology” veered off into blaming the Clintons for their sins. That’s not exactly a sincere apology.
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On Facebook I mentioned that it may be too late to replace Trump because of the printed ballots & early voting. I was told that those votes are really for the delegates, so that if Trump were replaced, those votes would go to his replacement.
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Try this test: Tonight turn on two TVs. Tune one to the Hillary/Trump debate. On the second watch a DVD of Idiocracy. Then let’s compare the results.
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Kizzie @ 10.20: Those nasty rumors are being spread by the Clintons who have seen Trump self-destruct and now view Arnold as their primary competitor. See my post this morning @8:07. Arnold is always nattily attired in his red collar except when he takes his bath.
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A good article on the dilemma facing Paul Ryan.
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/house-republican-leaders-trump-229426
My advice: Do the right thing! Man up! Blast Trump and call for his withdrawal. I’m sure conservatives in the German Reichstag in the early 1930s had similar dilemmas. At some point, you must identify evil for what it is. Trump and Hillary are evil personified.
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From everything I’ve read, there’s no practical way to replace Trump, even if he resigns — ballots being out and early voting underway simply make it a legal nightmare if it’s tried. Nothing I’ve read has suggested it’s built into the election laws that a vote for Trump would somehow automatically transfer to his replacement — huge problems with that anyway, I’d think.
Besides, from what I’ve also been hearing, the feeling to replace Trump is far from unanimous (and yes, I was surprised by this). Most of his supporters are sticking with him (so replacing Trump would lead to a messier mess than we already have, if that’s even possible).
A lot will be riding on how he does at tonight’s debate, of course. But it seems I may be maintaining my perfect record so far in this election — of predicting most everything wrong. 🙂
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Sexual predators often support one another. Call it professional courtesy.
https://twitter.com/noahcrothman/status/785144149158813696
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I was sure a day or two ago that this was the bullet that would finally strike him (politically) dead. Silly me. 🙂
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DJ, Our problem is that we have continually overestimated the intelligence and morality of Trump supporters. Trump himself said it months ago: “He could shoot someone on 5th Avenue in broad daylight and it wouldn’t matter.” Most of his moronic, amoral supporters would stick with him. However, he is not going to win this election. It looks like he may well bring down the Republican Party with him.
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But seriously …
I think the problem lies with our overall cultural shift in the past 50 years (with changes and a declining sense of values becoming more marked in the past 20 years).
It’s not ignorance so much as it is the changing standards we’ve all witnessed taking place. Credit the entertainment media, cable TV and, of course, the Internet (combined with a larger number of children being raised with no religious connections whatsoever).
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And there’s a strong undercurrent going on this year — a genuine frustration with the political class — that has led to this very unpredictable election. Trump, as imperfect as he is, managed to tap into that sentiment.
Apparently many voters are still willing to throw caution to the wind & go rogue with a vote for Trump over Hillary Clinton, who is probably the epitome of the political “class” in America (not to mention being horribly annoying to so many).
Let’s hope the daughter doesn’t try to follow her parents into public office.
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As I mentioned earlier and DJ’s link demonstrates, Trump will keep his core supporters through just about anything — that is about 40% of the electorate. It remains to be seen if the 3-8% who might consider voting for him will forget about this scandal by tomorrow. Knowing Trump’s tendencies, he might drag it on — picking a self inflicted wound.
I don’t like Nazi analogies but Ricky makes a good point. Hitler attained power not only through elections he also was aided by the Catholic Centre and the National parties who refused to align with the Liberal parties let alone the Social Democrats or Communists. Republicans should be aware of who they align themselves with and for what purpose. With that in mind, I find it interesting that as Republicans are jumping ship, Franklin Graham and Gary Bauer are still on the Trump wagon. Apparently, selling your soul for the Supreme Court makes sense to them.
I will disagree with DJ on changing moral standards — I don’t think they’ve changed much except there’s a greater openness and/or willingness of the media to discuss what used to be too crude for polite company. Hence, whereas nobody discussed FDR’s affairs and Eleanor’s relationship to her secretary, Mad Men style harassment, etc today we discuss our politicians dalliances, date rape, sexual harassment, etc. And this is a good thing. Interestingly part of this openness is the result of a breakdown of traditional cultural/religious morality which sought to hide or shame people.
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While I agree with this article, I do think raising a teenage girl alone has been very illuminating.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/10/08/politicians_shouldn_t_need_daughters_and_wives_to_know_trump_is_a_misogynist.html
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DJ, Here are the reasons I think ignorance is a huge factor.
1. I heard Reagan’s speeches and Nixon’s speeches and even Ford’s speeches. I have also listen to Trump. Not only is Trump himself incredibly ignorant. He is appealing to and promoting ignorance.
2. Compare our books, our movies, our music and even our TV shows to those of 50 years ago. They, like Trump, appeal to and promote ignorance.
3. Even the shallowness of many modern sermons and Christian songs demonstrate our ignorance.
4. Look at this last appalling episode. Trump and his foolish supporters say he is being attacked for his ‘bad language’. They are apparently mentally incapable of understanding that the ‘bad language’ was Trump’s description of multiple sexual assaults committed by Trump.
If you replace the fictional president in the movie Idiocracy with Donald Trump, you wouldn’t have to change a single scene or a single line. He could play the role with no preparation just as he will “debate” tonight without preparation.
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100
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Hey!
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“I don’t think they’ve changed much except there’s a greater openness and/or willingness of the media to discuss what used to be too crude for polite company. Hence, whereas nobody discussed FDR’s affairs and Eleanor’s relationship to her secretary, Mad Men style harassment, etc today we discuss our politicians dalliances, date rape, sexual harassment, etc. And this is a good thing. Interestingly part of this openness is the result of a breakdown of traditional cultural/religious morality which sought to hide or shame people.”
Sin has been around for a really long time. 🙂 There’s nothing new about it.
What’s new is the gradual social acceptance of it as “not a big deal” — each to his own. Shame? I’d suggest that these things weren’t discussed openly because there was a common sense throughout the culture that these were shameful things.
Now? Clearly not so much.
So I stick with my argument that yes, standards have changed (for the worse).
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The mostly neutral, public openness about these things is, in itself, a sign of cultural fallenness.
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HRW,
I know all the Wanderers appreciate the job you have done as a single father raising a daughter. My only child is a son and my wife did most of the work raising him.
I have helped teach high school girls in Sunday School. In this role I have had the honor of getting to know many young ladies and many parents. All young people can be vulnerable to assault. However, size, speed and other factors I do not fully understand make girls more vulnerable.
I am completely outraged that any Christian leaders would, at this time, publicly support the predator Trump. The church is going to pay a heavy price for its support of the reprobate Trump for years to come.
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Let’s go folks. If this debate is as ridiculous as I think it is going to be, we can get to 200 tonight.
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This article explains in more detail what I mentioned above (which was only one option). . .
http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/heres-what-happens-if-donald-trump-drops-out-of-presidential-race/
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There’s a good chance I won’t watch all of it.
It contains two characters whose voices I can’t stand.
Bedtime by 1`0:30, I’ll betcha. I’m sure I’ll hear most of it tomorrow, in segments.
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9:30, it was too late.
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The main campaign issue I’m interested in is globalism—and whether or not we can get out of these treaties that take away our sovereignty and jobs. Trump was always the only choice as far as I’m concerned. I would have been happy to vote for a more suave personality but none other addressed those issues. So I supported him in the primary and I’ll vote for him as soon as early voting starts.
I’m a little surprised that so many politicians are calling for Trump to drop out. But I guess I shouldn’t be. Most of them probably have more in common with Hillary than they do with working Americans anyway.
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Ricky,
1. Speeches are about sound bites — 15 seconds to make the evening news. FDR, JFK, Reagan etc were all before the cable news era.
2. Network television is circling the drain — they are in a vicious circle of lower revenues producing cheaper reality tv shows producing lower revenues…… However, quality is to be found on cable, netflix, etc. Highly complex well written shows. Children’s literature today is amazing, far and above the simplistic stuff written in my childhood.
3. Its been awhile since I attended my childhood church but ten years ago I noticed they replaced the traditional 20 min intense theological sermon and traditions psalms/hymns with 5 min pablum feel good messages and songs I would have been embarrassed to sing in Sunday School.
4. There are no words for the blinders some people possess.
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My sense is the issue of replacing Trump will fade — without a major groundswell of those who voted for him, it would be playing with fire, and open to charges that the ‘establishment’ or electors are trampling the will of the people.
If that groundswell doesn’t develop within the next few days, it’s a moot point — people would have to, in very large numbers, rise up to demand Trump be replaced and I’m thinking that’s not going to happen
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Thanks for weighing in, Debra — good to hear another view
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And HRW’s #3 is important for us in the church to seriously consider (our sermons are good and long, thankfully)
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DJ — My comments about the demise of shame was as it relates to victims of harassment, date rape, etc. In traditional societies, girls were frequently blamed for enticing the assault and their virginity was part of the family honour. In a more open society, we no longer accept this nonsense and hopefully encourage girls/women to come forward. The less embarrassment the better in this case.
Trump’s populist message has rust belt appeal but those jobs aren’t coming back no matter which treaty is ripped up. And the difficulty in ripping up economic/trade agreements will cause greater economic dislocation than its worth. The Brits will find out as they attempt to Brexit.
But Debra is right — Clintons and Kaisch are far closer than Kaisch and Trump.
I’ll pass on the debate — watching Luke Cage on Netflix.
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HRW, 1. I agree with you about what is out there on the fringes: from BookTV on CSpan to independent movies (we have to drive to Dallas to see) to excellent military histories based on newly available source material. Sadly, most folks aren’t getting that stuff.
2. That is great news about children’s literature. My wife had my son read the classics, but he always had several modern authors he read faithfully.
3. If you look hard you can also find great churches with fine pastors. My son attends The Village Church. His pastor is Matt Chandler. Chandler is better at applying scripture to one’s daily life than anyone I have ever heard. Whenever I visit, I leave thinking of some area of my life that needs improvement.
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Debra, You might enjoy The World is Flat by Thomas Friedman. I often disagree with Friedman and I don’t agree with many things in that book. However, it is a good analysis of what is going on in the world in the area of trade and economic development.
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Things that make you go Hmmmm
All the ‘what ifs’
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/10/what-if-2.php
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Amused. Both Ricky and I don’t like Friedman probably from different prespectives no doubt.
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We should remember that NBC has had the Trump tape since 2005. What if it had come out early in the primaries?
1. The mainstream media will not help vet bad Republican candidates in the primaries. They want a bad Republican candidate to be nominated so the Democrat can win.
2. The conservative media needs to weed out bad Republican candidates. This year the biggest voice in conservative media (FoxNews) was the biggest promoter of the worst Republican candidate (Donald Trump).
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Yes, HRW. When Friedman writes his next book, I will cut out the chapters I don’t like and send them to you. Those will be the parts you would enjoy.
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I don’t think NBC knowingly sat on this tape since before the primaries. I do think Billy Bush remembered the tape once Trump insulted his cousin once too often. Perhaps by the time he found the tape, Jeb was out and Billy sent it on to the Clinton camp who released it at oportune time. Or maybe I’m completey off and the tape emerged in a different scenario. But just think, how many people has Trump ripped off, stiffed, harassed or assaulted? Lots of motive to go around.
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This just in:
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Hi Debra! Nice to see you pop in!
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Trump thinks its 1996 and he’s running against Bill Clinton.
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Hi Kizzie (and DJ) and all.
I do occasionally lurk when I have a free moment or two—just to satisfy myself that all is well on “the other” coast and in Idaho on the farm and all the other places you all call home.
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OK. I couldn’t resist. I’m watching the debate …. Trump is whining about the moderators and demands more time…..Bill Maher is right, Trump is a whiny little b….
Optics …. Trump hasn’t learned from previous debate …. he’s pacing back and forth while Clinton is talking. He’s sniffing again….is his cold still there? or is it coke? He’s rambling. He’s talking about his buildings.
Clinton is trying to hard not to laugh.
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I like Trump’s idea of a special prosecutor to take care of the Clinton investigation. Although that usually means a circus.
I think Clinton smiles even bigger when she’s caught in a lie.
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I think Trump has been allowed to speak for at least five minutes straight on Syria. Clinton is just sitting there letting him rambling on and on.
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wow. Raddatz is debating Trump. She’s openly in Clinton’s camp.
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Wow. Trump just complained Hilary was allowed to go over but he just finished talking for five minutes straight. I would like to see a final tally percentage of who spoke the most, I think he would win easily.
Raddatz is a bit argumentative but Trump is challenging her on statements and her call for the time limit. It seems to be a mutual thing ….. Trumps’s attitude to women and a backlash perhaps.
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Clinton looks stressed, not as cool as she did in the first debate.
I’ve missed some of this, but seems like it’s going toward a draw. ? He’s maddeningly inarticulate and overuses some words (“disastrous”), but that’s Trump.
She’s very smiley which seems to belie a nervousness and stress.
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And again, “a woman’s right to choose” …. Choose what? 🙂 Ah, never mind. We don’t want to really go there.
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The fly was a strange touch. I thought it was on my TV screen.
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She’s more direct and to the point, but she’s far cooler than Trump. I think her simile is a coping mechanism to deal with the incoherent rant next to her. Its either smile or laugh.
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Maybe i missed an explosion then? He seems pretty relaxed — inarticulate, but relaxed. She’s a little lecture-y, but that’s not new either.
She kind of looks like one of my cousins, I just realized.
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He won.
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Tucker Carlson: “he’s an escape artist.
And he rattled Clinton — I would agree for the most part. He held his own.
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Bill Clinton would be proud of Trump. He denied that he committed the very sexual assaults that he bragged about on tape. Then, though often rambling, rude and incoherent, he defeated an ineffective Clinton in the rest of the debate. He is still toast. There are more tapes still to come out.
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He stemmed the bleeding. He was better but are we judging him by a different standard? She was far more composed than Trump. Yes she lectured but she is knowledgable and smart people do sound like they lecture. Trump was loud, interruptive, and paced far too much…..the temperament question is still there.
There were no winners here….
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Zsa Zsa showed some backbone:
http://origin-nyi.thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/300106-report-melania-trump-refused-to-do-a-joint-tv-appearance-with
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There were two places where Trump denied his behaviour. One as Ricky mentioned was the “locker room” talk. He wasn’t describing a hypothetical of what he could do rather he was describing what he already did and that was sexual assault. Second he denied telling people to check out a non-existent sex tape.
Clinton could’ve pushed both times but she was more intetested in discussing real policy. Hence the so called debate was disjointed.
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Trump’s the outlier, it’s why he’s judged on different standards. It’s also why he caught on with voters who believe the country is in pretty bad shape and headed for a cliff.
Essentially, he survived to campaign another day, something I would have thought would be unlikely on Saturday.
I think the American people have already moved on from the 2005 incident.
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I thought Hillary won, in terms of looking more presidential, knowledgeable, etc. He looked more prepared this time. Both of them managed to change the subject on topics they didn’t want to discuss; Trump looked whiny and interrupted a lot. Hillary looked far more self-controlled. But the bottom line hasn’t changed for me–no way can I vote for either of them. I won’t vote for a pro-abortion candidate, and I don’t trust her at all. But neither do I trust him. He has pretty much candidated for the position of dictator, and in despicability he is probably at least as bad as Bill Clinton, and honestly probably worse, in his womanizing.(It may just look that way since the Clintons stayed together for mutual benefit and Trump dumped his women as he got tired of them, but at least appearance wise it would seem Trump is no better, and possibly worse.) If it was inexcusable in their guy it’s inexcusable in “ours.”
May the worst guy lose. Or may both of them lose, preferably.
I just want to vote “No.”
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http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2016/10/trump-wins-2.php
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TRUMP WINS
… As always, he was sometimes incoherent, but more often than not, he made more sense than Hillary, who was in full Nurse Ratched mode.
…. Trump was Trump tonight–he had some great moments, and also some incoherent ones. But he swung for the fences, for example, going after Hillary on her criminal conduct with regard to handling of national secrets. Hillary was Hillary. She yaks away in a manner that most people find obnoxious, and leaves herself open to the observation that she is all talk and no action. …
In short, Trump won. In my opinion, he won big. We will see whether it matters.
___________________________
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Excuse me for changing the subject. I want to go back to my exchange with Kizzie last night about the Constitution Party. I went further into the depths of their web site and I can see why your friend might construe it as a “Christian” party. I saw several scripture references from the old testament, including one from Proverbs and the one that goes something like “If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves…” Though I didn’t find anything distinctly Christian, I think it’s fair to say that the party is deeply rooted in the Judeo-Christian tradition. That will no doubt offend some people and keep it on the fringes.
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Hillary almost always looks nice–certainly more attractive than Trump. She looks more presidential, talks more smoothly; she’s definitely more politically correct. She’s a career politician. So if you have to ask who won, then she didn’t, because by all measures she should have knocked it out of the ballpark. But she can’t. She can’t because people don’t trust her. She’s a career politician who not all that long ago said she was broke. And now she has 200 Million or whatever in her foundation? I like people to be entrepreneurial, but not as a government official—selling influence.
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Howard Kurtz at Fox:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/09/sex-lies-and-videotape-debate-trump-struggles-early-but-finishes-strong.html
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The sex, lies and videotape debate: Trump struggles early but finishes strong
… The St. Louis debate may have wound up close to a draw. And given the hell that Trump has been through in the past 48 hours, and despite his pregame stunt with Clinton’s accusers, that is a virtual victory for him.
________________________________
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Ricky @8:05 The World is Flat looks like an interesting read.
And if Trump does drop out, I will strongly consider writing in Arnold Weaver. He has a face you could trust.
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And that’s a wrap. Whew.
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